Fixing hole in side of block

[joesmith123]

Got the auger up in the air, connect shaft to spindle

September 7, 2024

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Change tire on bx, tire bulges from running over cinderblock, auger lifted, now connect the shaft

Trying to understand how far in the shaft goes, hit both connections with round files, spray with diesel

Problem: chain does not stop the auger from twisting, whereas the heavy duty hinge stops twisting

Twisting puts stress on the drive shaft as well

Meaning, it needs the hinge welded on...

Now: clean out and understand the drive connection, see how it locks into the spindle

Tried to get spindle in for 10 minutes, won't go in, hit both areas with files and diesel, saw the lock it has, a sliding lock, genius, smack with hammer where I point to unlock it

Spindle in it's place, put lumber on end, smack lumber with sledgehammer until it goes all the way in

Smack where I point to lock the spindle, absolutely genius

Now: try spin auger slowly

Tried to spin auger, seized, tried turning with big crescent, won't budge

Plan: spray with diesel, hit entire area with torch, mix another jar of acetone and trans fluid, try to get around the spinning parts, inject more grease into the main grease hole

September 7, 2024

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Video: spinning it with crescent, what I did: soak all area with diesel, hit entire thing with torch, go back and forth with crescent

Turned on pto using lever, spun the auger, chain not gonna work, driveline getting too much stress

Plan: slice off the area using cut off disc, grind it smooth, look into another hinge, weld on using flux coated bronze, take measurements of current hinge, find a chinese hinge with similar dimensions, try to stick chinese hinge the same way the bad hinge is fabricated

Parts update: messick ships fast, should have parts to get block with hole back onto tractor tomorrow (monday)

Install the new pilot bearing, take main bearings from other crankshaft, install them on crankshaft, get crankshaft into block installed using the torque wrench, put the 3 gaskets to seal the crankcase, install the bell housing parts, clutch, flywheel, etc, put block back onto tractor, might use the bx1500 to raise the block to get it back onto tractor (if it is too heavy).

Gaskets coming from messick: 3 gaskets to seal the crankcase, oil pan gasket, head gasket

Tomorrow: try to gather funds to get the chinese gasket kit to fill in the gaps

At this point, I should be able to continue reassembly (put all the gears back in, maybe even put on the gear case, without having any holdups. It just depends on if I forgot or did not get the gasket yet. There are some seals that I did not get, we will see how far I can get.

 

[MountainMeadows]

That homemade, Ford differential auger, takes 90w gear lube. Did you ever check to see if there was any gear oil in it? The angle of the PTO shaft is most likely also creating a bind.

 

[jaxs]

Got the auger up in the air, connect shaft to spindle

View attachment 137047 View attachment 137048 View attachment 137049

September 7, 2024

youtube.com

Change tire on bx, tire bulges from running over cinderblock, auger lifted, now connect the shaft

View attachment 137053

Trying to understand how far in the shaft goes, hit both connections with round files, spray with diesel

View attachment 137054

Problem: chain does not stop the auger from twisting, whereas the heavy duty hinge stops twisting

Twisting puts stress on the drive shaft as well

Meaning, it needs the hinge welded on...

Now: clean out and understand the drive connection, see how it locks into the spindle

View attachment 137057

Tried to get spindle in for 10 minutes, won't go in, hit both areas with files and diesel, saw the lock it has, a sliding lock, genius, smack with hammer where I point to unlock it

View attachment 137058

Spindle in it's place, put lumber on end, smack lumber with sledgehammer until it goes all the way in

View attachment 137059

Smack where I point to lock the spindle, absolutely genius

Now: try spin auger slowly

View attachment 137060

Tried to spin auger, seized, tried turning with big crescent, won't budge

Plan: spray with diesel, hit entire area with torch, mix another jar of acetone and trans fluid, try to get around the spinning parts, inject more grease into the main grease hole

September 7, 2024

youtube.com

Video: spinning it with crescent, what I did: soak all area with diesel, hit entire thing with torch, go back and forth with crescent

Turned on pto using lever, spun the auger, chain not gonna work

Plan: slice off the area using cut off disc, grind it smooth, look into another hinge, weld on using flux coated bronze

You are right Joe,the way you went about getting that stubborn pto coupler on tractor pto shaft is genius , tips not only newbies will appreciate, I'll bet many old moss backs had never thought of. I'm cheering for you Joe.

 

[Henro]

You are right Joe,the way you went about getting that stubborn pto coupler on tractor pto shaft is genius , tips not only newbies will appreciate, I'll bet many old moss backs had never thought of. I'm cheering for you Joe.

I take it your reply is tongue in cheek.

I feel the same way too (I think too).

NO WAY would I pound on something I was trying to get on my PTO shaft with a sledge hammer...but to each his own.

As an aside, at the last place I worked before retiring, I was as always, on the electrical side. But I remember someone saying something to me about another employee.

He said, every time I see see that guy I can't help but think his favorite tool is a sledge hammer.

Believe it or not, that guy's name was Joe....True story...

 

[Chanceywd]

I take it your reply is tongue in cheek.

I feel the same way too (I think too).

NO WAY would I pound on something I was trying to get on my PTO shaft with a sledge hammer...but to each his own.

As an aside, at the last place I worked before retiring, I was as always, on the electrical side. But I remember someone saying something to me about another employee.

He said, every time I see see that guy I can't help but think his favorite tool is a sledge hammer.

Believe it or not, that guy's name was Joe....True story...

I worked with one like that named Bob. He couldn't get a fine threaded gearbox drain plug to start so he hit it with a hammer and cross threaded. I got the job of repairing his work that time, like many others.

 

[fried1765]

You are right Joe,the way you went about getting that stubborn pto coupler on tractor pto shaft is genius , tips not only newbies will appreciate, I'll bet many old moss backs had never thought of. I'm cheering for you Joe.

Needs a good spraying with pressurized gasoline!

 

[DustyRusty]

And a flame to warm the metal!

 

[joesmith123]

Giving stuck hinge one more serious effort, messick parts showed up

While waiting for messick parts, hit the areas getting ready for weld with cut off and 7 in grind wheel

Hit hinge with 7 in grinding wheel, and cutoff ends of shaft

2 pieces cutoff the shaft, 7 in grind wheel

Messick arrived

These parts should get crankcase installed and block onto tractor

Now: remove bearings from other crankshaft, install them, get crankshaft assembly into block

Setup crankshaft upright, new bearing ready for installation

Smack flat piece of steel, get bearing halfway in flush

24 mm socket, smack socket pushing bearing all the way in lightly

Cleaned whole area with diesel then compressed air, then insert grease

Now: take apart this crankshaft and put bearings into other crankshaft

 

[joesmith123]

Installed crank bearings

Put tools next to serials: A and B stamps facing left and serials facing down

3rd serial: right side facing up

Made sure thrust bearing slots facing crankshaft

Now: read the manual about torque specs, figure out how to use torque wrench, tighten them to spec

Chinese torque wrench

Spec sheet say: main bearing bolt 1 is 6 bolts holding crankcase together, 27 foot pound

Main bearing bolt 2: two big bolts underneath block that go up into the crankcase, 50 foot pound

Broke bearing bolt trying to get it to 27 foot pounds

Put spindle on vice, clamp on crankcase, set torque wrench to under 30, first one went well, 2nd one broke

Decided to use bolts from other engine, skinny bolt is 13 mm, fatter bolt is 14 mm, used 14 mm bolts from other engine

Reason why the bolt broke: i set Chinese torque wrench incorrectly

I set it to number on left, NO, it slides down, meaning I had it at 37-40, look closely at the dial

I was wondering why it wanted so much

Assembled crankshaft, 27 foot pounds on all bolts, used chisel to hammer the keeper tight to the bolt

Now: install crankshaft into block, and make progress

Setup block to put in crankshaft

 

[Henro]

This is becoming a favorite thread for me!

I don’t mean this the way it sounds, but the other favorite thread that I have right now and have had for a while is the Daily Chuckle...

I have to laugh when I say that, because I don’t mean it the way it sounds!

 

[Hugo Habicht]

Hello Joe,

it may be that those bolts cannot be used again. Are they tightened with torque only or torque plus a specified turning angle? If the latter it may be that they have to be replaced. In this case they are being stretched when tightened and you may be allowed to do that only a limited number of times (which could be only once). You would not want them to break again, because then you are back to square one. What does the Kubota work shop manual say?

And another thing: ball bearings are never being hammered in. Even giving hard hits on the outer ring can do damage to the bearing due to the inertia of the inner ring. The electric motor company I worked for learned that the hard way with bearings failing. Always press bearings in and never have the press force going over the balls.

Kind regards,
Hugo

 

[Hugo Habicht]

Hello Joe,

another thing: not sure about some of the flat gaskets you had bought and their material and price. But you can get gasket paper in various thickness that you can use to make the gasket yourself. Put the sheet over the part and hammer it slightly with a rubber mallet or similar. The outside contour and bolt holes are then marked and you can punch out the holes and cut out the contour. I often do that because I do not have the patience to wait two weeks for the gasket to arrive.

Also ball bearings can be purchased from an engineering supply shop. Go for reputable large manufatureres like SKF, FAG, NSK etc.

Kind regards,
Hugo

 

[Jim L.]

Comments, not criticism.

Torque wrenches should be calibrated before use. Harbor Freight had/has? an electronic torque readout tool if needing a low-cost way.

Have oil passages been cleaned out for bearings?

Clean engine oil applied on the bearings?

Bolts coated with oil and finger tightened before torque?

 

[joesmith123]

Put crankshaft into engine block

Drop it in trying to line up two big bolt holes

Tried to line it up level

Now: put the foot pound torque on big bolts, chisel in the holders, then figure out the sealing process

50 foot pounds on those bolts, chiseled in the holder

Pushed out old seal using chisel

Finangling trying to install new seal

Two different clamps, trying to get it on, cant

It needs a solid uniform press coming downward , right?

I mightve damaged the seal trying to force it in without a press

Time to stop and go get a press, I go search now for used one

Here's a good one I can get Wednesday, let me know if I am making the right decision, since

I will need to press in many other items if I plan to fix machines

 

[Jim L.]

You're about ready to start needing assembly lube.

 

[fried1765]

Hello Joe,

it may be that those bolts cannot be used again. Are they tightened with torque only or torque plus a specified turning angle? If the latter it may be that they have to be replaced. In this case they are being stretched when tightened and you may be allowed to do that only a limited number of times (which could be only once). You would not want them to break again, because then you are back to square one. What does the Kubota work shop manual say?

And another thing: ball bearings are never being hammered in. Even giving hard hits on the outer ring can do damage to the bearing due to the inertia of the inner ring. The electric motor company I worked for learned that the hard way with bearings failing. Always press bearings in and never have the press force going over the balls.

Kind regards,
Hugo

Fear not!
Joe will figure it out.

 

[Hugo Habicht]

Fear not!
Joe will figure it out.

I thought the whole purpose of this Forum is to support people repairing and maintaining their Kubota tractors.

Joe may not have a lot of experience but he is making a huge effort and I think he deserves to be supported. He may make mistakes, but I think so did everybody starting repairing machines. And I do not see that he is resistant to advice, so I think this is what we should be giving him. Particularly when he is tackling a task like rebuilding an engine.

Kind regards,
Hugo

 

[Hugo Habicht]

Hello Joe,

you can get kits of round adapters for pressing in the seal rings. Inner and outer rings of old ball bearings are quite handy for that purpose as well or any piece of pipe with the right diameter as long as the ends are at a perfect right angle. Or sockets or basically anything round and with the right diameter you have lying around.

The press is suitable I would say. You will not need 60 tons for a seal ring but the more force it can do the more uses you willnfing. With a hydraulic press you have very good control over the movement.

When you look at the second hand press make sure you move it all the way out and watch out for leaks. Put it on block and put full force on it when testing. Do not forget protection goggles. High pressure hydraulic leaks are quite dangerous.

When pressing in the seal ring it has to be perfectly level with the flange from the beginning. I once hammered in a seal ring on a rear axle that was at an angle. I could not straighten it despite hammering only on the high side. It took me three seal rings and a proper mandril before I had fitted the seal ring correctly.

Kind regards and good luck,
Hugo

p.s.: the press I have has a pressure gauge, so you can see if you apply 1 or 6 tons. I find that sometimes handy to know.

 

[joesmith123]

you can get kits of round adapters for pressing in the seal rings. Inner and outer rings of old ball bearings are quite handy for that purpose as well or any piece of pipe with the right diameter as long as the ends are at a perfect right angle. Or sockets or basically anything round and with the right diameter you have lying around.

yes I am listening, before getting a press, I give it one more shot today without the press. I show you a video I saw, I want to emulate:

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Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

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I want to try putting it up the crankshaft, maybe that would help push it in straight

I will look around also for maybe a pvc pipe 3 inch, that might fit the out ring well, then hammer on that trying to get it sit in its groove

Light taps on crankcase with broad end of chisel to line up the bolts for crankcase,

Now: put in a couple bolts, trying to get the seal in maybe with crankshaft it help keep it straight, I go find pvc pipe that is same size as seal to hammer on

Look how much bigger the new seal is compared to crank size

Factory seal, smaller, more snug to crank

New seal: red, bigger diameter

Old seal, black, smaller diameter

I'll put the 40 year old seal on and move on

Lined the holes up on both gaskets

Studied diagram: smaller bolts with spring and washer on outside diameter, bigger bolts no washer on inside diameter

Correct?

Tightened crankcase bolts, set block upright to spin crank

Video: you are looking at the thrust bearing, from top of block

Only sound I am noticing, coming from this

Is it normal to have thrust bearing a bit loose or should it be fully tight and make no noise?

Maybe thrust bearings should have some place to give the engine an out of it hits a hard object and comes to dead stop (my theory)

Reinstalling bell housing with 2x4 and sledgehammer

Organized the hardware for bell housing, now go look at diagram and hand fit the bolts into their designated area

 

[Hugo Habicht]

Hello Joe,

hammering is always risky. In the video the seal has an end stop, that is not always the case.

I would always try to push it in in a defined way. A thread in the shaft can be used for that purpose with a mandril and a bolt. Attached picture of mandril set for seal rings. Chinese made and good quality.

If you use a pipe and hammer make sure the pipe is long enough so that you can keep the angle straight.

If you have the flange off I would press it in there. The crankshaft only is an extra obstacle and a risk of damaging the seal lip.

Kind regards,
Hugo

p.s.: the PVC pipe together with two plates and a threaded bar to pull it in may also be an option. Threaded bar vertically in the vice, then plate, flange, seal, pipe, plate and nut to press it down.