Five-Cylinder Engines

GeoHorn

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
M4700DT, LA1002FEL, Ferguson5-8B Compactor-Roller, 10KDumpTrailer, RTV-X900
May 18, 2018
6,039
3,322
113
Texas
The discussion thread about the 5-cylinder engines in the M4700 thru the M5700 utility Kubotas gave rise to some thoughts about that particular oddity of 5-cylinder operations.

This topic might be of interest to owners of 5-cylinder engines who wonder about how they are balanced, and WHY a 5-cylinder engine has certain advantages over 4 or 6 cylinders, as well as other interesting facts about engine-timing. Enjoy:

 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

85Hokie

Moderator
Staff member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
BX-25D ,PTB. Under Armor, '90&'92-B7100HST's, '06 BX1850 FEL
Jul 13, 2013
10,902
2,720
113
Bedford - VA
good stuff - very interesting
good post
 

SidecarFlip

Banned

Equipment
M9000HDCC3, M9000HD, Kubota GS850 Sidekick
Oct 28, 2018
7,182
557
83
USA
Always wanted a Ford Focus RS but my wife said no. I have a lead foot. They do scream, especially with the hairdryer adding a ton of boost.
 

SDT

Well-known member

Equipment
multiple and various
Apr 15, 2018
3,258
1,056
113
SE, IN
The discussion thread about the 5-cylinder engines in the M4700 thru the M5700 utility Kubotas gave rise to some thoughts about that particular oddity of 5-cylinder operations.

This topic might be of interest to owners of 5-cylinder engines who wonder about how they are balanced, and WHY a 5-cylinder engine has certain advantages over 4 or 6 cylinders, as well as other interesting facts about engine-timing. Enjoy:

Interresting read.

Inline 5 cylinder engines are not common, usually (No, I did not say always.) used as temporary solutions for the need for more power by manufacturers that do not have tooling for larger displacement 4 cylinder engines or where the length of an inline 6 cylinder presents packaging problems.

Scaling up an existing 4 cylinder design using existing components can provide a 20-25% power increase without the need for new pistons, rods, valves, etc.

Of course, an entirely new and expensive crankshaft is required, and this is one of the major reasons why inline 5 cylinder engines are usually short-lived.

SDT
 

GeoHorn

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
M4700DT, LA1002FEL, Ferguson5-8B Compactor-Roller, 10KDumpTrailer, RTV-X900
May 18, 2018
6,039
3,322
113
Texas
Interresting read.

Of course, an entirely new and expensive crankshaft is required, and this is one of the major reasons why inline 5 cylinder engines are usually short-lived.

SDT
“Short lived” can have different connotations... What did you mean by that?
 

Fordtech86

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
L3200
Aug 7, 2018
4,966
5,915
113
Pineville,LA
Always wanted a Ford Focus RS but my wife said no. I have a lead foot. They do scream, especially with the hairdryer adding a ton of boost.
The RS sold here in the states is not a 5 cylinder. The 5 cylinders were only offered in the European market.
 

SidecarFlip

Banned

Equipment
M9000HDCC3, M9000HD, Kubota GS850 Sidekick
Oct 28, 2018
7,182
557
83
USA
The RS sold here in the states is not a 5 cylinder. The 5 cylinders were only offered in the European market.
I know that. Still wanted one because they were screamers. Wife said no so I have my GDI Focus and dry intake valves that get the CRC treatment with every oil change. Another Ford 'better idea'...lol Least they decided to install a fuel injector in the intake tract on later GDI engines. Cheaper than CRC every oil change. Least my BIL wasn't involved in that. Only the 'amputated' dipstick. I sometimes wonder what they pay him the big bucks for. Hairbrained ideas I guess.
 

lugbolt

Well-known member

Equipment
ZG127S-54
Oct 15, 2015
5,385
2,081
113
Mid, South, USA
doesn't make a lot of sense to build an I5 when an I6 makes a lot more power/torque, is smoother, cheaper to manufacture, and most of the time fits in the same place an I5 would

I4's are a little buzzy without a counterbalancer. All of the M series have counterbalance. Most of the L's do not. On the B3350, B3300, B2900, etc (4 cylinders), you will notice it a lot more because of the little bitty frame, it doesn't really absorb the vibration like the L's do

MX's, I am not sure about--I bet they ain't balanced either but it's been a minute since I been into an MX engine of any type

Kubota likes inline 4's, they use them all the up to the M8 which is an I6. M4000 was also an I6, oddly enough. They didn't use the I6 very much. I5's of course were used some. It is counterbalanced (has to be).

Inline 3 Kubota's generally don't have counterbalancers. They're cheap little engines, that's why they use them so much. But you will notice some vibration, some machines it's not much others....it's obvious (mowers are a good example). They mount them on rubber mounts to isolate it if possible (BX'x and lawn mowers). They are very cheap to make in comparison to I-4 but once they start getting "bigger" (more displacement) the weights of the reciprocating and rotating parts start to become an issue (vibration). Then adding a turbocharger, it will need a surge tank of some sorts to help dampen the pulsing in the intake manifold. At that point, it's cheaper to put a normally aspirated 4 cylinder on the machine, which runs a little smoother and makes more torque given the same displacement.

Emissions is also an issue.....won't even begin to get into that. There are more kinds of emissions than exhaust....

used to be a website that went into the basic engineering details of internal combustion otto-cycle multicylinder piston engines and why they were chosen, their pros, cons, and a ton of other stuff. Excellent read if you have a day or two to soak up all the information. IIRC it went into everything from single cylinder all the way to I think 20 cylinder, both inline, vee, H, and IIRC radial. Going off of memory, I found it by googling the firing order for Viper V-10 since I was helping a man change plug wires and plugs on his 97 GTS. Has to be the worst sounding engine of all time. Scratch that, any V6 is and 90 deg V6's worse than 60 deg. Viper V-10 close second with it's stupid odd firing order (google it you'll see what I mean, they used the old Dauntless V6 "shaker" style firing strategy)
 

SidecarFlip

Banned

Equipment
M9000HDCC3, M9000HD, Kubota GS850 Sidekick
Oct 28, 2018
7,182
557
83
USA
If I remember correctly (my shop manual is in the shop and I'm inside, both my M9's have counter balancer shafts. They do not shake or vibrate at all at any speed. Good motors as my open station with 6000 hours of farm life will attest to. Uses very little oil, starts right up and purrs like a kitten. One thing I'd like to do with both of them is get rid of the mufflers and go straight pipes. The turbo quiets the exhaust plenty and the mufflers are in the way under the hood, especially on the cab tractor and I imagine without a muffler and the back pressure I might pick up some power I don't need..... 😀

Lugbolt, didn't Kubota build a 2 cylinder sub cut years ago. I seem to remember seeing one at the dealer way back when and Keith started it and it shook like a wet puppy. Reminded me of a Harley Davidson...
 

SDT

Well-known member

Equipment
multiple and various
Apr 15, 2018
3,258
1,056
113
SE, IN
“Short lived” can have different connotations... What did you mean by that?
As previously stated, such designs are usually temporary solutions.

As such, the designs are usually short lived.

SDT
 

SDT

Well-known member

Equipment
multiple and various
Apr 15, 2018
3,258
1,056
113
SE, IN
If I remember correctly (my shop manual is in the shop and I'm inside, both my M9's have counter balancer shafts. They do not shake or vibrate at all at any speed. Good motors as my open station with 6000 hours of farm life will attest to. Uses very little oil, starts right up and purrs like a kitten. One thing I'd like to do with both of them is get rid of the mufflers and go straight pipes. The turbo quiets the exhaust plenty and the mufflers are in the way under the hood, especially on the cab tractor and I imagine without a muffler and the back pressure I might pick up some power I don't need..... 😀

Lugbolt, didn't Kubota build a 2 cylinder sub cut years ago. I seem to remember seeing one at the dealer way back when and Keith started it and it shook like a wet puppy. Reminded me of a Harley Davidson...
Yes, they did.

SDT
 

William1

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
BX25D
Jul 28, 2015
1,175
373
83
Richmond, Virginia
Vibration is a math function and a quantity function. Does the number of cylinders even divide into 360? Then the more the merrier (smoother). A boxer six vibrates less than an in line and and a Vee in-between. A boxer 12 is like an electric motor. A six inherently runs smoother than a eight of the same design.
A five vibrates a little less than a four (quantity).