First electric tractor 30-70 hp

[SidecarFlip]

....and for the driver optional function......

View attachment 51785

I have orders from my wife to build a replica now for the roadside mailbox holder. Oh boy.....

 

[random]

Can't help but wonder what the software license is.

Interestingly, their promotional video claims it is "Right to repair" friendly, with owner-accessible on-board diagnostics, etc.

Some might feel it's worth the price of admission just for that feature alone.

For now.

I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further.

 

[34by151]

I have orders from my wife to build a replica now for the roadside mailbox holder. Oh boy.....

Here is my version

 

[ccoon520]

I'm not a tree hugger so I don't much care. I'm a tree cutter, not a hugger. Stihl to be exact.

It's not about being a tree hugger or going green. It is about cost efficiencies. Let's say that your farm costs you 100 grand a year in fuel to run and you cut that by 10% then you get a 10k swell to your profit margin.

So lets do a little math as an example. The charge time calculated on their table is 5 hours for a full charge from 0. At 220V and a full 150amp draw that is 33kWh total per hour. Multiply that by 5 and you get 165kWh. In the USA the average rate per kWh is 13.2 cents/kWh. So that would meant that it would cost about $25 for a full charge on your tractor or 2.5 dollars/hour of run time on a 50 HP tractor. My 2501 runs at about a gallon of diesel an hour so that is $2.45 per hour for a 25 HP tractor. On top of that my tractor requires engine oil changes periodically that electric motors don't. For the cost of operation on a 25 HP diesel Tractor you get double the HP

On top of that if it is using an application that can capitalize on the autonomous programing built in then you also get to lop off another $30/hr or 300 dollars a charge. It increases the available space for farmers since they need a plug in and maybe a transformer box and do not need a fueling station. Also Electric tractors also won't have that DPF system that people love to hate so much.

Not to mention no issues on winter startup, idling won't be a thing when power is needed it can then start the hydro pump, it will be significantly quieter running, and doesn't need a generator running on the PTO to provide A/C power since it can provide it from it's own battery bank.

There is a load of potential in this tech that isn't even surrounding it being "green." It would take 1000 hours (100 days) of autonomous operation for it to make its ROI vs a traditional base new 50 HP 2WD tractor.

 

[mikester]

Not to mention no issues on winter startup, idling won't be a thing when power is needed it can then start the hydro pump, it will be significantly quieter running, and doesn't need a generator running on the PTO to provide A/C power since it can provide it from it's own battery bank.

For folks with cold climates, electric vehicles lose anywhere between 10-50% range in cold weather. Nobody puts that in their brochures.

I could see a chicken farmer wanting to use an electric vehicle like that to clean out the barns. Or a homeowner that puts on under 100 hours a year with a small property. I can't see a farmer keeping one of these for long after the battery dies working out in the back forty and nowhere to plug in a big paperweight.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

re: Not to mention no issues on winter startup, Well, maybe not 'starup' but actual RUN time will be a HUGE issue. batteries, ALL batteries, do NOT like the cold and won't supply 100% power like in the summertime.... 'tricks' are played by car makers ,like HEATERS for the battery packs, recharging batteries in hybrids, running enging to drive if too hot or too cold. heck, you cannot buy a battery operated that WORKS and recharges in the winter up here in Ontario. The listed run time of 10 hours is misleading. probably in sunny, hot California, maybe pulling a wagon ? I'd like to see it pull a 4 bottom plow through 50ac of virgin grasslands. Up here REAL farmers have 10-14hrs days(make hay while the sun shines...) ,often run hours after the sun goes down. Can you imagine th e'fun' when the tractor shutsdown cause the computer says 'low bat' !
BTW you got CHEAP electricity !, 1/2 of what I pay for... and I'm 40 miles from Niagara Falls,sigh.

 

[shelkol]

ccoon52: I don't know about you guys, but I live in Massachusetts with National Grid as my electric supplier. Cost of electricity delivered to my house is $0.104 for the generation of and $0.11 for delivery of each KWH. So that adds up to $0.214 per KWH. That changes the numbers just a bit.

Don't get me wrong and I don't want to hijack this thread but, I think there is a limited amount of oil / gas on this planet and eventually we will run out. We'll need oil for lubrication forever. We will have to find some other way to push our vehicles and that will most likely be electricity. We have to plan, find better ways to generate electricity, and improve our grid so it can handle the increased load by all these charging stations. It won't be cheap but may be necessary.

 

[802Driver]

Right now the most efficient battery are lithium batteries, has anyone looked at the environmental impact that mining for lithium has? It has a huge impact on the soil and water in the process, it also causes air pollution, albeit the end product comes across as a "green" solution but the elephant in the room is the mining process. I was pro-electric for future endeavours because we WILL run out of fossil fuels at some point but the more I looked into lithium battery manufacturing, the more disappointing it became. Sadly, it is just another form of pollution in the process. It would be another avenue for propulsion, but we would be no better off pollution wise, sadly.

 

[Daren Todd]

I have orders from my wife to build a replica now for the roadside mailbox holder. Oh boy.....

There is a reason i won't show that picture to my wife. I would have some homework as well

 

[NHSleddog]

Right now the most efficient battery are lithium batteries, has anyone looked at the environmental impact that mining for lithium has? It has a huge impact on the soil and water in the process, it also causes air pollution, albeit the end product comes across as a "green" solution but the elephant in the room is the mining process. I was pro-electric for future endeavours because we WILL run out of fossil fuels at some point but the more I looked into lithium battery manufacturing, the more disappointing it became. Sadly, it is just another form of pollution in the process. It would be another avenue for propulsion, but we would be no better off pollution wise, sadly.

For sure. But that is today.

10 years ago we would have been arguing about lead and it's lack of capacity and deadliness. Then NC, then NMH etc. etc.

There are new battery technologies coming faster and faster right now. Lithium will have 5-10 times the current capacity in the next decade and chemical storage will be right behind it.

As far as mining goes, it goes. The current battery has a shelf life of 10 years and is recyclable for the most part, so the mining impact is not as bad as you make it sound. With oil needing to pump/move/refine/move for EVERY SINGLE GALLON the impact is MUCH higher over the life of the product.

Personally, I want to buy electric when I think it is right for me in my situation, not be forced to, or taxed into capitulation, but because it was the best way to get the job done.

 

[Daren Todd]

Right now the most efficient battery are lithium batteries, has anyone looked at the environmental impact that mining for lithium has? It has a huge impact on the soil and water in the process, it also causes air pollution, albeit the end product comes across as a "green" solution but the elephant in the room is the mining process. I was pro-electric for future endeavours because we WILL run out of fossil fuels at some point but the more I looked into lithium battery manufacturing, the more disappointing it became. Sadly, it is just another form of pollution in the process. It would be another avenue for propulsion, but we would be no better off pollution wise, sadly.

There would be a mass exodus on mining if the majority of the population realized what kinds of chemicals leach into the ground water from the mining of certain metals.

Tungsten and bauxite Mines are just as bad. And once the ground gets opened up for one of those Mines, the leaching starts. They have to take steps for water reclamation and filtration on anything new.

 

[BigG]

There are a world of things that you would not have if there was no mining. Iron ore to produce the steel in your tractors, cars, trucks, sky scrapers. Coal produces a ton of things besides electricity. In short society would not and can not function without mining. Should they mine? You must look at the cost - benefit of each operation. Remove everything that comes from the mines and you are back to hunting and gathering to live.

Iron, coal, aluminum, copper, salt, limestone, marble, phosphorus, uranium, chalk, potash, and more.......

 

[JoeBabbs]

some further info:

It can be automated, and work as a robot. If labor costs are relevant, this can be useful.

For me, my tractor is for enjoyment, in addition to being a tool.

 

[802Driver]

There are a world of things that you would not have if there was no mining. Iron ore to produce the steel in your tractors, cars, trucks, sky scrapers. Coal produces a ton of things besides electricity. In short society would not and can not function without mining. Should they mine? You must look at the cost - benefit of each operation. Remove everything that comes from the mines and you are back to hunting and gathering to live.

Iron, coal, aluminum, copper, salt, limestone, marble, phosphorus, uranium, chalk, potash, and more.......

I -100% agree, now if the process for mining for the purpose of generating batteries had a lot lower impact? I'd be all in I guess. Such is not the case. Shifting methods of propulsion with almost the same amount of pollution, just a different form?, is the issue. IMHO

 

[bucktail]

some further info:

It can be automated, and work as a robot. If labor costs are relevant, this can be useful.

For me, my tractor is for enjoyment, in addition to being a tool.

You don't need to go all electric to go autonomous. If you can run an alternator you can run the auto steer. There's a video of a guy running his grain cart autonomously from his combine on YouTube .

 

[chim]

People seem to forget that it take electrical power to charge these things,, where do they think the electrical power comes from? It comes from gas, oil, COAL some nuke, and solar and wind they dont even count. But to each his/her own I guess

Absolutely! I cringe every time I see something hype a "Zero Carbon Footprint" vehicle. As mentioned, a horrible amount of real estate has been irreparably damaged in the pursuit of raw materials for batteries. Then what about the means of generating power? More nuke waste to worry about? Burn more fossil fuels? It made my head hurt when #3 Son said the "Pzev" on the tail end of his Subaru was an acronym for "Partial Zero Emission Vehicle". Now just what kind of hogwash is that?

I’m not an electrical engineer but can say there is more wasted energy getting power from where the atoms are split to the drive wheels of the tractor or car than most would realize. Probably more efficient to just burn fuel right there in the vehicle and cut out all the losses along the way. No fuel gives up its heat at 100%. Generators, transformers and power lines aren't 100% efficient. There are losses at each step along the way.

 

[BigG]

It's not about being a tree hugger or going green. It is about cost efficiencies. Let's say that your farm costs you 100 grand a year in fuel to run and you cut that by 10% then you get a 10k swell to your profit margin.

So lets do a little math as an example. The charge time calculated on their table is 5 hours for a full charge from 0. At 220V and a full 150amp draw that is 33kWh total per hour. Multiply that by 5 and you get 165kWh. In the USA the average rate per kWh is 13.2 cents/kWh. So that would meant that it would cost about $25 for a full charge on your tractor or 2.5 dollars/hour of run time on a 50 HP tractor. My 2501 runs at about a gallon of diesel an hour so that is $2.45 per hour for a 25 HP tractor. On top of that my tractor requires engine oil changes periodically that electric motors don't. For the cost of operation on a 25 HP diesel Tractor you get double the HP

On top of that if it is using an application that can capitalize on the autonomous programing built in then you also get to lop off another $30/hr or 300 dollars a charge. It increases the available space for farmers since they need a plug in and maybe a transformer box and do not need a fueling station. Also Electric tractors also won't have that DPF system that people love to hate so much.

Not to mention no issues on winter startup, idling won't be a thing when power is needed it can then start the hydro pump, it will be significantly quieter running, and doesn't need a generator running on the PTO to provide A/C power since it can provide it from it's own battery bank.

There is a load of potential in this tech that isn't even surrounding it being "green." It would take 1000 hours (100 days) of autonomous operation for it to make its ROI vs a traditional base new 50 HP 2WD tractor.

When you say a $100,000 a year in fuel you must be kidding. There is no tractor on earth that is in the 50 - 70 hp range that will burn 274 gallons of fuel, at $2 per gallon, a day for 365 days a year. The number of days a farmer uses a tractor will not be 365 days a year for most applications. So the $10,000 a year savings is not realistic.

I do not know of very many farms that are paying $30 an hour for a tractor driver. So again the savings of $300 a 10 hour shift is not a real measurement for the autonomous driver's savings. I would never allow a machine to run unmanned in a field. Farming is not done in a controlled environment so the machine will still need to be observed. Plus there are many aspects that will require a person to be present. Checking the depth of cut on a disk harrow would require an off the tractor inspection. Refills of the sprayer or a 1000 other things are not going to be done without human intervention. Auto steer is a wonderful thing that has allowed a great increase in production. It will not be a replacement for a human to run the machine. A complement but not a replacement.

Winter operation will not be the utopia that you paint in you picture. Cold stars may be better but the cold will reduce the run times on the batteries. There will not be any heat produced by the engine therefore the hydraulics will be cold and slow moving thus further reducing the battery life.

The statement of 100 days of autonomous operation to recoup the cost is grossly optimistic. Is there a place for the electric tractor? There maybe in some limited applications for this tractor. I hope it works but cost vs return will need to be improved. Reliability must be proven yet and durability will be key.

I do not wish to sound confrontational but rather I was hoping for clarification of the numbers.

 

[NHSleddog]

Absolutely! I cringe every time I see something hype a "Zero Carbon Footprint" vehicle. As mentioned, a horrible amount of real estate has been irreparably damaged in the pursuit of raw materials for batteries. Then what about the means of generating power? More nuke waste to worry about? Burn more fossil fuels? It made my head hurt when #3 Son said the "Pzev" on the tail end of his Subaru was an acronym for "Partial Zero Emission Vehicle". Now just what kind of hogwash is that?

I’m not an electrical engineer but can say there is more wasted energy getting power from where the atoms are split to the drive wheels of the tractor or car than most would realize. Probably more efficient to just burn fuel right there in the vehicle and cut out all the losses along the way. No fuel gives up its heat at 100%. Generators, transformers and power lines aren't 100% efficient. There are losses at each step along the way.

The gallon of fuel does not magically appear.

It needs to be explored for, (energy used)
It needs to be mined or drilled, (more energy used)
It needs to be transported (more energy used)
It needs to be refined (more energy used - lots of industrial waste involved)
It needs to be transported again (more energy used)
You need to go get it (more energy used)
etc. etc. etc.
Or were you referring so some other fuel?

Everything else frame/body tires etc are the same impact/footprint.

 

[chim]

The gallon of fuel does not magically appear.

It needs to be explored for, (energy used)
It needs to be mined or drilled, (more energy used)
It needs to be transported (more energy used)
It needs to be refined (more energy used - lots of industrial waste involved)
It needs to be transported again (more energy used)
You need to go get it (more energy used)
etc. etc. etc.
Or were you referring so some other fuel?

Everything else frame/body tires etc are the same impact/footprint.

Yes that is all correct. Choice for vehicles would be gasoline or diesel.

Diesel (or fuel oil) LPG, and natural gas (CNG) can run generators or vehicles. I did a couple projects at a cogen plant. They ran turbines on NG using FO for backup.

Biggest problem would be a nuclear reactor that works in a car

 

[bucktail]

The early pacemakers had nuclear reactors in them