" Firestarters" for woodstoves ?

[GreensvilleJay]

I was told by the late ,great farmer that
a 'cord' is 4' x 4' x8' of nicely stacked split wood
a 'face' cord is 1/3rd of that, so 16" logs, used for open fireplaces....
a 'stove' cord is 1/4 of a cord, so 12" logs,usd in ,well, kitchecn cooking stoves

now there's 12' logs for 'whole house wood stoves'....

sigh....

'gallon' has changed over the years too.......
metrically speaking, it's gone from 4.54 liters to 3.66 liters..

 

[Mark_BX25D]

It stipulates apporxmitly 1/3 cord of stacked wood.

There's one definition.

A face cord is a 4ft x 8ft stack of whatever length it's cut to.

And there's another. Completely different.

A face cord is 2/3 of a rick, which is 3 thin sticks in a wheelbarrow.

And there's another.

All are equally valid.


Anyone beginning to see a problem?

 

[bmblank]

There's one definition.




And there's another. Completely different.



And there's another.

All are equally valid.


Anyone beginning to see a problem?

Yes, we all see that there is no singular definition. They all mean roughly the same thing though. The basic idea being that buyer and seller agree on what they're getting. I can tell you if I called up a supplier and asked for a face cord of firewood and he showed up with a bucket with 3 sticks in it, I'd tell him to hit the road.
Everybody knows there's no legal definition, but MOST people agree that it's "about this much".
That's good enough for me.

 

[Biker1mike]

New York Ag and Markets defines a cord as 128 cubic feet. Reliable fire wood sellers will give a receipt with either the cubic feet or cords as defined.
Mass. requires fire wood to be sold as cubic feet. A solid definition.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

copied from local ad on Kijiji
..
Price Listing:
Face Cord- $150 (dropped onto driveway)
Bush Cord- $400 (dropped onto driveway)

maybe I should come out of retirement, buy a wood processor !!

 

[lugbolt]

Arkansas requires that firewood can only be sold by the cord. Not by the rick stack or length. I haven't looked into what they define as a cord. What I do know is that the police sometimes get called because someone sold a "stack" of wood, and the buyer didn't like the seller and turned them in. Heard of it so far this season twice. Whether anything is done about it or not I cannot say.

I actually bought some wood in teh summer. The seller, I know him. He was just removing some trees and asked if I needed any wood. For $30 I couldn't say no. I have to have it 12" length because my fireplace is tiny and he was perfectly fine with that. He gave me a receipt which described in detail the length cut and length/height of the cord. I really don't care as I don't burn a lot of wood anyway but I have been burning more this year than in years past, mainly because it's there, and it will rot if I don't use it up. Only thing I had to do was remove it from the truck and stack it. No cutting no splitting this time. Thank goodness. I don't miss doing that. My first 46 years of life I did it every year and for a year that is what I did for a living....cut, split, stack, deliver...firewood.

 

[KKBL]

The amount of wood you actually get in 128 cubic foot of wood can vary widely depending on if it is tight stacked or loose stacked.
A loose stack seller may try to tell you that it is a good thing because it has dried better.

 

[Mark_BX25D]

Yes, we all see that there is no singular definition. They all mean roughly the same thing though. The basic idea being that buyer and seller agree on what they're getting. I can tell you if I called up a supplier and asked for a face cord of firewood and he showed up with a bucket with 3 sticks in it, I'd tell him to hit the road.
Everybody knows there's no legal definition, but MOST people agree that it's "about this much".
That's good enough for me.

Okay, so if you come to my gas station and you want 30 gallons of unleaded, you'll be perfectly happy if I sell you "about that much".

Got it. And if someone sells you a "face cord" you'll be perfectly happy if he dumps a couple of 5 gallon buckets of sticks on your driveway.

And have fun with your legal complaint if you aren't happy. You won't have a leg to stand on.


By the way:

They all mean roughly the same thing though.

No, they don't. They are all over the map.

 

[Biker1mike]

The amount of wood you actually get in 128 cubic foot of wood can vary widely depending on if it is tight stacked or loose stacked.
A loose stack seller may try to tell you that it is a good thing because it has dried better.

Around here if you short sold to a vacation home you might get away with it. If you short sold to a long term resident that really old school social network will have your name dragged through the mud by dinner.
BTW: Old school social network is the wives and the telephone. The secondary network is at the local dinner. Either way you are going to be sitting on your wood for some time.

 

[RCW]

Okay, so if you come to my gas station and you want 30 gallons of unleaded, you'll be perfectly happy if I sell you "about that much".

Got it. And if someone sells you a "face cord" you'll be perfectly happy if he dumps a couple of 5 gallon buckets of sticks on your driveway.

And have fun with your legal complaint if you aren't happy. You won't have a leg to stand on.


By the way:



No, they don't. They are all over the map.

I’m a Forester by education.

Don’t recall a facecord defined in college.

That said, I’ve sold and bought a lot of hardwood firewood in my day. Also cut a bunch of softwood pulp for a few years.

With hardwood firewood, Facecord is the common definition of a unit of firewood in the northeast US. It’s a 32 square feet wood pile….4x8 stack x length TBD.

Only variable is “how long?” 16” is common, as others said.

I think in many parts of the US , especially places that use softwood for firewood, there really is no such thing as a facecord. It’s common here, and I don’t get away from upstate New York much to know the difference for sure.

Honestly some people like the choice of 12, 16, or 18+”. A 12” FC is more work than 18, so probably costs are negligible, even though 18” is more wood. I cut a lot of 20” stuff for our own stove on the farm. Machinery shed was 77 facecord when full, but it was longer wood….

Timber sales bid out by Foresters estimate cordwood in 128 cubic foot quantities, both hardwood and softwood. A cord is defined that way.

I was shorted on one firewood purchase. Length was fine, and agreed upon. Problem was it was likely a 25 square feet of that stack that was supposed to be 32….. Was a 10 facecord order if my memory serves. He shorted me quite a bit.

A friend was the County Weights & Measures official. Don’t know what “book” he was referring to, but said he sometimes had similar complaints, and would respond to them.

I didn’t need his help. Took care of it myself….

You can argue the facecord measure is not defined, and may well be correct. I will counter it’s so pervasive in practice (at least in my ‘hood) that it’s defined in practice, although it’s informal.

The government doesn’t have to define everything in our lives.

Many/most firewood guys around here advertise as $XX per “cord”. While not technically correct, connotation is facecord, not per 128 cu. ft. cord.

I would have been more than happy to pay $25 per “cord” many years ago, split and delivered….

 

[jimh406]

If you want a consistent wood measurement system, you have to buy wood from the same people. The air gaps between the pieces is enough to throw off a measurement. That gap varies according to who splits it, and how small they split it.

I can say I've tried to roughly measure what I buy. The guy I buy from uses a processor into his dump bed that is a specific size. When I've stacked it, it comes out to at least two cords on my racks. He sells it as two cords. The negative or positive depending on the opinion of those receiving it is that you get a certain amount of tiny pieces, bark, ends of logs, etc. Fwiw, my chimney sweeps told me about him. I figured they would know, and they did. He sells out of wood every year.

It works fine for me. I either have him dump on the bit of asphalt I have, or in the dump area I made near my wood stacks out side my yard fence. That makes cleanup easier. The waste can be put in my burn pile.

 

[RCW]

If you want a consistent wood measurement system, you have to buy wood from the same people. The air gaps between the pieces is enough to throw off a measurement. That gap varies according to who splits it, and how small they split it.

I can say I've tried to roughly measure what I buy. The guy I buy from uses a processor into his dump bed that is a specific size. When I've stacked it, it comes out to at least two cords on my racks. He sells it as two cords. The negative or positive depending on the opinion of those receiving it is that you get a certain amount of tiny pieces, bark, ends of logs, etc. Fwiw, my chimney sweeps told me about him. I figured they would know, and they did. He sells out of wood every year.

It works fine for me. I either have him dump on the bit of asphalt I have, or in the dump area I made near my wood stacks out side my yard fence. That makes cleanup easier. The waste can be put in my burn pile.

Jim - well said. Most of my guys just made sure it would make scale, plus some freeboard.

They didn’t stack stuff in advance….. they knew their truck would hold about 2, 3, or 5 facecord….threw some extra on.

I did the same when I sold wood before that. 10 or 20 sticks/facecord went a long way to make a happy customer.

 

[KKBL]

Around here if you short sold to a vacation home you might get away with it. If you short sold to a long term resident that really old school social network will have your name dragged through the mud by dinner.
BTW: Old school social network is the wives and the telephone. The secondary network is at the local dinner. Either way you are going to be sitting on your wood for some time.

Best to get good referrals, verify how the delivery will be measured and quality of the wood before purchasing cut and split.
I don't buy wood cut and split, we do our own supply. Sellers probably don't stack it neatly and measure before loading it into a dump truck for delivery - it is probably all just a guess.
Even if they say that it was loaded into what equals a 128 CU/FT container that may be a VERY loose load and not a good deal.

 

[Mark_BX25D]

With hardwood firewood, Facecord is the common definition of a unit of firewood in the northeast US. It’s a 32 square feet wood pile….4x8 stack x length TBD.

Only variable is “how long?” 16” is common, as others said.

The only variable is which version you subscribe to. We've seen at least two in this thread alone, and there are others.

 

[bmblank]

Okay, so if you come to my gas station and you want 30 gallons of unleaded, you'll be perfectly happy if I sell you "about that much".

Everything has a tolerance. There's no way you can sell me EXACTLY 30 gallons. So, anyway, my answer to that is... Prettymuch.

Got it. And if someone sells you a "face cord" you'll be perfectly happy if he dumps a couple of 5 gallon buckets of sticks on your driveway.

No.

And have fun with your legal complaint if you aren't happy. You won't have a leg to stand on.

I wouldn't have much of a complaint cause I wouldn't pay without knowing what I'm getting. The general timeline goes as follows: call up supplier and tell him or her I want so many facecord of firewood, supplier shows up in my driveway with firewood, I look at it and say "looks good", supplier dumps load in agreed upon location, I pay, they leave.
I'm not ordering things online. If i'm not happy I don't pay them and they drive away with their 5 gallon buckets of sticks.
I'm not buying firewood online. We're not getting the scales out. It's just, hey, I want some firewood. This look good? Yeah, I'm good with that, here's some money.
I realize that if I were to try to take somebody to court over how much wood is in a face cord there isn't much of a case.

No, they don't. They are all over the map.

Gonna have to disagree with you, there. While the definition may not be universal, and we've all agreed that it's not legal, for the most part, particularly in my area, and I would argue in much of the wood burning North America...

Now. I have to say, the vociferousness with which you're fighting this baffles me. And I'm embarrassed that I've allowed myself to be drawn into it, fighting back equally as hard.

Now here I am extending my embarrassment.
The two images below would both be considered "a cord" of wood. Not face cord, but full on 128 cu. ft. cord, whatever you may call it. These are two extremes demonstrating differences in something that is LEGALLY the same.
The first image depicts large logs, and I feel like I'm being generous here including 4 rounds as opposed to using just one round 4ft in diameter. The volume of wood in the first image would result in just under 105 cu. ft. of actual wood.
The second image depicts 279 (if my math is correct) 3" diameter logs. This results in a volume of just over 109.5 cu. ft. I'm not gonna lie, they are much closer than I expected. But, while they are legally the same, at least as far as I understand it, they are most definitely NOT the same.

Now, in my embarrassment that I burnt so much energy on this entire topic, I'm out. I plan on unwatching the thread cause it really doesn't matter that much. What do they say about arguing on the internet...

 

[Mark_BX25D]

Everything has a tolerance. There's no way you can sell me EXACTLY 30 gallons. So, anyway, my answer to that is... Prettymuch.

No, you wouldn't accept that for a minute. If you are paying for 30 gallons you would expect 30 gallons within the standard limits of tolerance for that measurement.

There are no standard limits of tolerance for a measurement that is not legally defined.

Gonna have to disagree with you, there. While the definition may not be universal, and we've all agreed that it's not legal, for the most part, particularly in my area, and I would argue in much of the wood burning North America...

There are two definitions posted right here which are different enough to make a big difference to your pocketbook, and if I wanted to take the time, I could dig up several other definitions that are also common and also big enough to make a difference in your pocketbook.