FEL bleeding down

[TxAg2001]

I bought a new Kubota M5111 tractor about 6 months ago. From the beginning the FEL would lower down a few inches as I used it. One day I had forks on and was raising a piece of metal for a gate overhead. Got out of tractor, climbed up ladder to weld it in place and it was already an inch lower than it needed to be. So I got to measuring the rate of drop. In one instance the forks dropped 15" in 16 minutes. Second instance, 22" in 25 minutes.

I have contacted the dealership I purchased the tractor from and they said 1" every 5 minutes is normal. I called another dealership and they said yes it will bleed down overnight when the tractor is off but it shouldn't be doing it while the tractor is running.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[RCW]

You should never leave the loader up with the tractor off/overnight, etc., but I'm sure you know that.

There are acceptable limits/tolerances for bleed-down. I can't swear to it, but it seems like those are with tractor off......

Sounds like even by your own dealer's statement, you're way over those tolerances, while running besides!

The two suspects are internal seal leaks in the lift cylinders, or valve itself.

You can switch lift and curl lines at the valve to see if the problem follows to the curl. If it does, means a valve seal leak.

However, on a big tractor like that at 6 months old I think that's a warranty issue for your dealer to figure out!

Good luck!

 

[eserv]

This is the official Kubota limit for loader leakdown. Makes no difference if the tractor is running or not.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Your's bleed down rate sounds excessive, about an 1" per min.

I guess I'm really lucky, I have a 30 year old Wood's loader on my (edit L3450) and it will hold with no drop over a month on both lift and roll.

 

[100 td]

and it will hold with no drop over a month on both lift and roll.

Unreal! Back when they machined and precision fitted valves no doubt!

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Unreal! Back when they machined and precision fitted valves no doubt!

Now my bobcat on the other hand is not so good all the time.

 

[D2Cat]

Your's bleed down rate sounds excessive, about an 1" per min.

I guess I'm really lucky, I have a 30 year old Wood's loader on my L3250 and it will hold with no drop over a month on both lift and roll.

You get a new tractor?

 

[TxAg2001]

This is the official Kubota limit for loader leakdown. Makes no difference if the tractor is running or not.

I can believe when the tractor is off. But they have lost their minds while the tractor is running. One of the major reasons I purchased this was to help hang heavy gates or overheads. Not to mention the pure safety issue of the FEL automatically lowering while operating

 

[eserv]

I can believe when the tractor is off. But they have lost their minds while the tractor is running. One of the major reasons I purchased this was to help hang heavy gates or overheads. Not to mention the pure safety issue of the FEL automatically lowering while operating

It makes no difference whether the tractor is running or not with the type of valves Kubota use. It is the type of seal that they use in the cylinders that is allowing the leakage

 

[bearbait]

Check that hydraulic fittings are tight on your fell, a couple of mine were loose from the dealer and after I tightened them it seemed to make a difference. Also when your working around the fel when it's up always put it in the locked position.

 

[TxAg2001]

In makes no difference whether the tractor is running or not with the type of valves Kubota use. It is the type of seal that they use in the cylinders that is allowing the leakage

Can a different type of seal be used? Is there anything that can be done?

If not, I guess I am looking at taking a big hit & will sell this tractor and go with a different color. There have already been too many instances where I could not do something because I knew it would drop. That simply will not work.

 

[eserv]

Can a different type of seal be used? Is there anything that can be done?

If not, I guess I am looking at taking a big hit & will sell this tractor and go with a different color. There have already been too many instances where I could not do something because I knew it would drop. That simply will not work.

I'm sure a different seal could be adapted in there, something like a polypack for instance, but it will require machining and isn't available from Kubota. I don't know about all the other makes of tractors but John Deere's allowable drift is almost the same as Kubota's. I assume then that JD are using similar teflon quad ring seals

 

[Butch]

A friend of mine bought an L35 some time ago and he had issues with bleed down drift. Kubota said it was with in the specs.... He popped the cylinders off and took them to a fantastically great hydraulic near here....

$25 per cylinder seals replaced and boda boom... fixed it! Still going strong after several years

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Before you just take a loss and jump ship.
I would do 2 things:
First tell the dealer that the drop rate is excessive, if they still won't do anything about it take it up with Kubota corporate as your stated drop rate is over spec.
If you still don't get any satisfaction, have the cylinders rebuilt, I know, it's new and you shouldn't have to do it, but sometimes you just have to bite the bullet.

And as far as switching Colors, you could very well have the same issue with any other tractor.
If you really wanted it to lift and hold things you really need to get a Fork Lift, as they are designed to hold weight up and steady for a length of time.
Ag tractors are not designed to hold weight up for any length of time, in fact I sometimes wonder if they don't design it to drift down to keep it from being left up?

 

[TxAg2001]

Before you just take a loss and jump ship.
I would do 2 things:
First tell the dealer that the drop rate is excessive, if they still won't do anything about it take it up with Kubota corporate as your stated drop rate is over spec.
If you still don't get any satisfaction, have the cylinders rebuilt, I know, it's new and you shouldn't have to do it, but sometimes you just have to bite the bullet.

And as far as switching Colors, you could very well have the same issue with any other tractor.
If you really wanted it to lift and hold things you really need to get a Fork Lift, as they are designed to hold weight up and steady for a length of time.
Ag tractors are not designed to hold weight up for any length of time, in fact I sometimes wonder if they don't design it to drift down to keep it from being left up?

Agreed, but I am talking about everyday chores around the property. Filling the bucket up with firewood to go split it at the log splitter for example. I shouldn't have to bend over to get the wood out. Yes, sounds lazy...but it is an example. I'm not talking about thousands of pounds of weight. In my mind, I should be able to raise up a piece of 3x3" sq. tube (16' long), get out of tractor, clamp it in place without having to worry that it will have dropped inches by the time I get up the ladder.

I think you have a valid point though about rebuilding the cylinders before just selling the thing. Cost wise, I am sure I would lose my shirt just selling it. Other than the FEL issue, I love the tractor!

 

[eserv]

Before you just take a loss and jump ship.
I would do 2 things:
First tell the dealer that the drop rate is excessive, if they still won't do anything about it take it up with Kubota corporate as your stated drop rate is over spec.
If you still don't get any satisfaction, have the cylinders rebuilt, I know, it's new and you shouldn't have to do it, but sometimes you just have to bite the bullet.

And as far as switching Colors, you could very well have the same issue with any other tractor.
If you really wanted it to lift and hold things you really need to get a Fork Lift, as they are designed to hold weight up and steady for a length of time.
Ag tractors are not designed to hold weight up for any length of time, in fact I sometimes wonder if they don't design it to drift down to keep it from being left up?

Yup! Agree! If the loader is above spec by all means get on Kubota's case about it! I think all of them leak down a bit but we really don't get many complaints about it so most must be very little. It IS very frustrating from a mechanic's perspective to have to pull out that Kubota leakdown chart to justify why Kubota won't do anything about it on warranty! So the more complaints Kubota gets the more likely they'll do something.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

If you are talking about the lift cylinders collapsing in and lowering the bucket and there are NO external leaks, I can guarantee you that it is the control valve. If you are talking about the curl cylinders extending, thus dumping the bucket, then it could be either the cylinders or the valve and testing will need to be done. Most likely the problem is the valve.

If your valve is good, the lift cylinders would not even need a piston to stay up let alone any seals.

 

[eserv]

If you are talking about the lift cylinders collapsing in and lowering the bucket and there are NO external leaks, I can guarantee you that it is the control valve. If you are talking about the curl cylinders extending, thus dumping the bucket, then it could be either the cylinders or the valve and testing will need to be done. Most likely the problem is the valve.

If your valve is good, the lift cylinders would not even need a piston to stay up let alone any seals.

I guess that explains why we repair many more bucket cylinders than we do lift cylinders! One other thing on M tractors with ALO loaders, we have had some problems with contamination in the loader control valve at the front causing leakdown. they have overpressure relieve valves in there plus the soft-drive spool that have been a bit of a headache! If you remove the spool from that valve and find any contamination that might be the problem!
If you do have one of these and you find contamination you will have to flush the whole valve out and disassemble the spool to clean it out. make sure to take note when you disassemble the spool of the number of turns to remove the screw and put it back the same amount. there is no easy way to get it back into spec again.
You can try flushing the spool without disassembling it by over pressuring those valves. tip the bucket forward and drive the tractor forward lowering the boom until the bucket teeth hit the ground and the bucket trips ( relief valve actuate) this might seem quite aggressive but it usually works if the problem is foreign material caught in the overpressure valves. Of course this only works when it is the bucket cylinders not holding.
Also this only applies to ALO loaders! The kubota loaders are different!

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

You get a new tractor?

OOPS did it again, Yea it's still the old L3450.

 

[sheepfarmer]

Is it child (tractor) abuse of these parts to rest the bucket tip down, essentially vertical, instead of flat, when parking the tractor for the night? This puts all the weight on different cylinders than usual. And is it safely stable?

The reason I ask is that resting in that position gives me just enough room to duck under the loader arms to get the hood up.