Farmers are looking for less technology

[D2Cat]

In interesting article. If you're looking for a hobby to earn income this may be it. http://m.startribune.com/for-tech-w...r-old-tractors-now-a-hot-commodity/566737082/

 

[m.t.hands]

technology is great, well while it's working anyway

 

[SidecarFlip]

Been saying that right along and why I bought the used M9 last spring. No tier 4 crap, all mechanical and guess what... You won't find a used M9 Kubota ag tractor anywhere and if you do it will be appreciably more than the 18 grand I paid for the one I bought.

Even my dealer told me he'd give me 20 for it on the spot. Told him it's not for sale at any price.

Only disagreement I have with the author is about bio-diesel. It's garbage and ULSD has refinery based lubrication additives in it and has since the get go.

Obvious to me he don't know the score on that or his comment is politically biased or both.

Go read my comments about Kubota and their big ag tractor line and what I feel is bad corporate planning.

 

[gssixgun]

Second person today to link this article

I read this on Facebook earlier in a Homesteading group I belong to, a friend posted it

Honestly, it doesn't surprise me, I love the looks and Hydraulics on the newer tractors but anything Tier 4 just doesn't interest me

I bought my first Kubota L185 in 2007 the meter was broken at 7500 and change

I bought this 2000 L3600 in 2012 it had 975 when I got it and I just hit 1400 so I figure maybe 50-60 hours per year

I might buy me a 2013 sometime around 2030

TEOTWAWKI might come first LOL

 

[SidecarFlip]

The newest JD's and CNH's are nice, so are the Fendt's and the Challengers. They do everything but brew hot coffee while you farm. My friend down the road who owns a large seed operation has a number of new (last year's JD's) in various configurrations, from combines to flat back's to FWA utility units and they are all very complex. They incorporate stuff like auto steer and filter monitoring (where the tractor tells you when to change the filters and lubricating oil, I've operated a couple and running one is like playing a video game. The cost is huge. both his combines were well in the excess of 275 thousand (heads included) and the tractors were all over 150 grand each but they all share one trait, they are all Tier 4 final (all take DEF) and all of them have issues that Brian ( the owner / operator) cannot even attempt to fix and any form of deletion causes the units to derate. IOW, you don't fool with them and if they malfunction, the dealer has to come out and deal with the issues via a laptop and wireless Internet connection, in the field and it all takes precious planting or harvesting time.

In Brian's defense, the new equipment is very efficient when it's running right and he farms thousands of acres so he needs the efficiency. Brian does have a couple pre tier 4 JD's he keeps around for emergencies.

One thing about farming in general and that is, unlike playing with a tractor and implements like most posters on here do, when farming for a living, you have a time window to plant, a time window to fertilize and apply pesticide / herbicide and a time window to harvest and it's imperative that the equipment runs flawlessly during those time windows.

I too deal with those time constraints but in a different way. Dry hay production is entirely dependent on the weather. Sure, I can apply acid to the hay to retard spoilage if the RM (moisture content is too high to safely bale without a mold issue but, one it's costly and two, customers don't like the addition of 'greensaver' to the product so I'm always playing 'devils advocate' with Mother Nature so when it's time to fertilize or cut or bale, it has to be done 'now' and equipment failure (tractors or implements) is out of the question so I run older power. Implements, not so much but then my implements, while not very old, aren't dependent on Tier 4 technology either. They are computerized however and even that gives me cause for alarm because I cannot fix them if they break.

People don't really understand all the parameters involved in growing produce, grains or raising meat for consumption. You go to the supermarket and buy the finished product and take for granted it will be there at a competitive price but in reality, getting it there entails a whole raft of things including a lot of luck. What happened this last year with all the rains and soggy fields. Lot of farmers lost their butts through no fault of their own. Why the ag market is depressed right now and why I believe Kubota is barking up the wrong tree with their push to enter the market with large ag focused tractors.

Neither here nor there but that investment could be very detrimental to Kubota.

 

[D2Cat]

The newest JD's and CNH's are nice, so are the Fendt's and the Challengers. They do everything but brew hot coffee while you farm. My friend down the road who owns a large seed operation has a number of new (last year's JD's) in various configurrations, from combines to flat back's to FWA utility units and they are all very complex. They incorporate stuff like auto steer and filter monitoring (where the tractor tells you when to change the filters and lubricating oil, I've operated a couple and running one is like playing a video game. The cost is huge. both his combines were well in the excess of 275 thousand (heads included) and the tractors were all over 150 grand each but they all share one trait, they are all Tier 4 final (all take DEF) and all of them have issues that Brian ( the owner / operator) cannot even attempt to fix and any form of deletion causes the units to derate. IOW, you don't fool with them and if they malfunction, the dealer has to come out and deal with the issues via a laptop and wireless Internet connection, in the field and it all takes precious planting or harvesting time.

In Brian's defense, the new equipment is very efficient when it's running right and he farms thousands of acres so he needs the efficiency. Brian does have a couple pre tier 4 JD's he keeps around for emergencies.

One thing about farming in general and that is, unlike playing with a tractor and implements like most posters on here do, when farming for a living, you have a time window to plant, a time window to fertilize and apply pesticide / herbicide and a time window to harvest and it's imperative that the equipment runs flawlessly during those time windows.

I too deal with those time constraints but in a different way. Dry hay production is entirely dependent on the weather. Sure, I can apply acid to the hay to retard spoilage if the RM (moisture content is too high to safely bale without a mold issue but, one it's costly and two, customers don't like the addition of 'greensaver' to the product so I'm always playing 'devils advocate' with Mother Nature so when it's time to fertilize or cut or bale, it has to be done 'now' and equipment failure (tractors or implements) is out of the question so I run older power. Implements, not so much but then my implements, while not very old, aren't dependent on Tier 4 technology either. They are computerized however and even that gives me cause for alarm because I cannot fix them if they break.

People don't really understand all the parameters involved in growing produce, grains or raising meat for consumption. You go to the supermarket and buy the finished product and take for granted it will be there at a competitive price but in reality, getting it there entails a whole raft of things including a lot of luck. What happened this last year with all the rains and soggy fields. Lot of farmers lost their butts through no fault of their own. Why the ag market is depressed right now and why I believe Kubota is barking up the wrong tree with their push to enter the market with large ag focused tractors.

Neither here nor there but that investment could be very detrimental to Kubota.

You make this post on the subject but always have to get a comment about something irrelevant to the idea inserted. The sentence I highlighted in red is an example. Try to respect other tractor owners, and leave your little innuendos out. Your constant belittling and then bragging shows lack of confidence!

 

[BAP]

The newest JD's and CNH's are nice, so are the Fendt's and the Challengers. They do everything but brew hot coffee while you farm. My friend down the road who owns a large seed operation has a number of new (last year's JD's) in various configurrations, from combines to flat back's to FWA utility units and they are all very complex. They incorporate stuff like auto steer and filter monitoring (where the tractor tells you when to change the filters and lubricating oil, I've operated a couple and running one is like playing a video game. The cost is huge. both his combines were well in the excess of 275 thousand (heads included) and the tractors were all over 150 grand each but they all share one trait, they are all Tier 4 final (all take DEF) and all of them have issues that Brian ( the owner / operator) cannot even attempt to fix and any form of deletion causes the units to derate. IOW, you don't fool with them and if they malfunction, the dealer has to come out and deal with the issues via a laptop and wireless Internet connection, in the field and it all takes precious planting or harvesting time.

In Brian's defense, the new equipment is very efficient when it's running right and he farms thousands of acres so he needs the efficiency. Brian does have a couple pre tier 4 JD's he keeps around for emergencies.

One thing about farming in general and that is, unlike playing with a tractor and implements like most posters on here do, when farming for a living, you have a time window to plant, a time window to fertilize and apply pesticide / herbicide and a time window to harvest and it's imperative that the equipment runs flawlessly during those time windows.

I too deal with those time constraints but in a different way. Dry hay production is entirely dependent on the weather. Sure, I can apply acid to the hay to retard spoilage if the RM (moisture content is too high to safely bale without a mold issue but, one it's costly and two, customers don't like the addition of 'greensaver' to the product so I'm always playing 'devils advocate' with Mother Nature so when it's time to fertilize or cut or bale, it has to be done 'now' and equipment failure (tractors or implements) is out of the question so I run older power. Implements, not so much but then my implements, while not very old, aren't dependent on Tier 4 technology either. They are computerized however and even that gives me cause for alarm because I cannot fix them if they break.

People don't really understand all the parameters involved in growing produce, grains or raising meat for consumption. You go to the supermarket and buy the finished product and take for granted it will be there at a competitive price but in reality, getting it there entails a whole raft of things including a lot of luck. What happened this last year with all the rains and soggy fields. Lot of farmers lost their butts through no fault of their own. Why the ag market is depressed right now and why I believe Kubota is barking up the wrong tree with their push to enter the market with large ag focused tractors.

Neither here nor there but that investment could be very detrimental to Kubota.

You make this post on the subject but always have to get a comment about something irrelevant to the idea inserted. The sentence I highlighted in red is an example. Try to respect other tractor owners, and leave your little innuendos out. Your constant belittling and then bragging shows lack of confidence!

And he is only what we used to call “A Gentleman Pretend Farmer”. Kubota knows exactly what they are doing by providing a full line of tractors and equipment to serve customers in areas that other companies have dropped dealerships and neglected customers.

 

[skeets]

Buying and using old iron is all and well now, until those people get involved,,, you know who Im talking about.
And while they directly cannot stop you from using old iron they can and will make it hard on the people that make major parts.
And pass some kind of laws that prevent you from using said old iron as per say for safety reasons, or requiring a pollution test or like they did with the automotive industry. Yes Virginia there is a Santa Claws but he aint inside the belt way

 

[shootem604]

I'm going to pile on too: This is a tractor forum, not a farmer forum. Yes the two areas intersect a plenty, but it isn't a hierarchy. If you don't want talk to us lesser mortals who "play with tractors and implements", you might be in the wrong place. With that said, my extended family is farmers, I grew up in the country, worked on a half dozen farms from hay to corn to dairy to chicken, and now I have gone white collar although I don't forget my roots. I understand farmers and farming just fine, and I still have the callouses.

Let's see some civility here.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

question.
Anyone know what happens if you turn off a tractor that's run out of DEF ? I know some(all) new pickups, you're in trouble as truck will NOT restart until DEF has been added and brought up to temperature.

 

[bernhardine]

... a tractor that's run out of DEF

That's a fault of a stupid Driver!
And not a Problem of modern engines.

 

[SidecarFlip]

You make this post on the subject but always have to get a comment about something irrelevant to the idea inserted. The sentence I highlighted in red is an example. Try to respect other tractor owners, and leave your little innuendos out. Your constant belittling and then bragging shows lack of confidence!

And he is only what we used to call “A Gentleman Pretend Farmer”. Kubota knows exactly what they are doing by providing a full line of tractors and equipment to serve customers in areas that other companies have dropped dealerships and neglected customers.

I think $12,500 in after expense profit in 2019 makes me a bit more than a 'gentleman farmer. That don't include livesttock sales, just dry hay sales.

My comment that you bolded wasn't an innuendo, it was a fact. I'd say the percentage of total posters in this site that actually farm or derive income from farming is maybe 5% on the high side and posters on thus site that own and operate units above 75 pto horsepower are about the same percentage.

The majority of posters on here (and that includes the both of you), fall under the term 'residential user'. How it plays.

My comment about Kubota is my opinion whether it's yours, I really don't care. Again, Kubota would be much better off catering to your user group. Breaking into the heavy ag market, especially now, could very well be a bad decision.

Unlike you two, I don't get a stick in my butt over an expressed opinion whether I agree with it or not. Your comments only show how closed minded you are and usually I ignore them much like I ignore a smart mouth kid.

I 'play' in a different field than you two do. I play for profit, not fun.

Don't know much about the smaller hobby / residential units but I do like reading along. Don't own one, don't need one. I already have a lawnmower.

 

[D2Cat]

Flip, since you don't understand the meaning of the word innenuendo, here's the definition printed out for you. "An innuendo is a hint, insinuation or intimation about a person or thing, especially of a denigrating or a derogatory nature. It can also be a remark or question, typically disparaging (also called insinuation), that works obliquely by allusion".

You respond by declaring your farm income and telling us you're more than a gentleman farmer. You also say, "I 'play' in a different field than you two do. I play for profit, not fun". And you close with,"Don't know much about the smaller hobby / residential units but I do like reading along. Don't own one, don't need one. I already have a lawnmower".

Maybe it needs to be restated. Don't be so arrogant, which means "having or revealing an exaggerated sense of one's own importance or abilities".

 

[KennysNewFarm]

I think $12,500 in after expense profit in 2019 makes me a bit more than a 'gentleman farmer. That don't include livesttock sales, just dry hay sales.

How many acres do you own/lease? That is a large sum of hay if you have deducted Labor, Fuel, Repairs etc.

 

[twomany]

Good to hear!

My 1950 Fordson E27n is money in the bank! ;-)

 

[GreensvilleJay]

re:...
That's a fault of a stupid Driver!
And not a Problem of modern engines.

not necessarily...
Farmer is busy working the fields,trying to do 7 jobs at once and RELIES on the 'computer' to warn him about possible problems, like low DEF. Computer screws up (think 737MAX8) and doesn't turn on the idiot light. Tractor runs out of DEF....farmer's done for the day... WILL the tractor restart ?

I know fireturcks here have DEF systems 'modified' and certain pickups will NOT restart until DEF is added( and heated) that's why I asked. Spending 100-300K on a new tractor means you're USING it,hopefully to make money.
I'm curious to know if they program tractor computers as badly as pickups.

 

[SidecarFlip]

How many acres do you own/lease? That is a large sum of hay if you have deducted Labor, Fuel, Repairs etc.

About 200 acres owned and leased on shares on 2-3 cuts, mostly alfalfa and Brohme grass. Taxable income minus depreciation, equipment payments, land rent fuel and inputs. Have an option on an additional 20 adjacent to the farm but I'll probably pass. It needs fitted anyway so I won't realize much the first season.

Said before, I have one customer that takes it all, right out of the fields, in rounds. Brings in his trailers, drops them and I load them up. Been dealing with him for a couple years now. Much better (and less grief) than selling piecemeal to horsey people and why I've went to almost all rounds. years back, I ran almost all kickers. getting a crew to handle them was always an issue (kids don't want to work today), storage was always an issue too. With rounds, no issues at all.

I do 'hold back' around 100 rounds and put them in my barn to feed the steers and the nags with. Whatever is left over in April, goes to my hay customer so I always have 100% turnover on bales.

This next season, I will most likely run 500 kicker bales as well. I had a gal apporoach me that wants kickers and will pay up front. If she pays up front, she will get them. If not, will be in rounds. Already told her I won't pick them up, her deal. Haven't used the 575 is a few years but it's always ready to rock, in the barn. I like small squares, good return on investment but I don't like the handling aspect. Few years ago I contracted for wheat straw in kickers and ran almost 7000 in one shot on a combined wheat field, nice straight 3/4 mile long windrows. Didn't touch them either. The 575 likes that sort of running. It's a high capacity baler, built for just that type of production.

I do know one thing for certain and that is, if we don't get some serious degree days between now and April, I'll have a serious leaf hopper issue. Need a stretch of sub freezing temps to kill them off. Vernal alfalfa is touchy.

I'm going to buy at least a new rake this year. I need the offsets as I really have none of consequence. Looking at a twin rotor Kubota trailer but as I stated elsewhere, I'm not tickled with the second party manufacture so I'll probably get a Kuhn Swadro or a Pioneer twin rotor.

Never pay much attention to finance rates so long as they are competitive. Interest, like principle is an offset and I don't like paying Uncle Sam if I don't have to.... I will this year.

The issue with forage crops (and produce) is there are no government subsidy to offset a bad year. With row crops, you can insure against crop loss and you can partake in Government subsidy programs. Not so with forage and produce. You have a bad year, you eat it all. I was extremely lucky last year. Produce growers around here weren't with the exception of head lettuce. Double crop head lettuce did very well. melons, peppers and associated crops did not. Way too wet and cool.

Of course my cancer issue factored in as well but it was dealt with during the dormant season so it was never an issue other than I got tired easy but then what I do isn't labor intensive except maintaining equipment. I mostly sit in an air conditioned tractor and go up and down rows of forage.

This year, I'll post up some pictures of the fields, the equipment and doing it.

I enjoy it. Gets me out of the house and away from my wonderful wife.....

 

[motionclone]

Buying and using old iron is all and well now, until those people get involved,,, you know who Im talking about.
And while they directly cannot stop you from using old iron they can and will make it hard on the people that make major parts.
And pass some kind of laws that prevent you from using said old iron as per say for safety reasons, or requiring a pollution test or like they did with the automotive industry. Yes Virginia there is a Santa Claws but he aint inside the belt way

Remember "Cash for Clunkers" under obama?

 

[SidecarFlip]

I prefer to forget about Obozo.

 

[Treckerzeug]

gentlemen,

Please accept the way of living of each of us,
But,
Please,
Kubota is a worldwide acting group,
In asia they have been forever in the ag business,
In europe they purchased the Kverneland group in 2012,
They have built a tractor factory in france for the M series a couple of years ago,
So what they do now with rostelmash/versatile is new as this means selling badge engineered products,
But let s see what comes out of it.

By the way,
If a truck is running out of ad blue it reduces the torqze only, are tractors really stopping diwn?

Robert