EZ Float 3-Point

CaveCreekRay

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Gang,

Had my bro out from California and let him drive my Kubota. First tractor driving experience for him. (He did great!)

Before he came out, I described the engineering problem associated with anything hard-mounted on the three point. Front tire rolls over a dime, the attachment goes down a dime. Front wheel goes into a hole, the attachment goes up in the air. Makes dragging anything really smooth, really difficult, as those who have tried it can attest.

Solution: Floating 3-point.

We tried dragging my rake with the tines turned around to "skim" instead of "claw side." When we pulled the upper 3-pint support pin, the rake settled into a nice pressure that allowed it to float really nicely, until you tried to turn, then it chattered a little and left the minor finish flaw as a result.

You can come up with the method that works easiest for your implement and application. Use a suitable chain for the upper leg of the 3-point. You can either make a small 6-inch chain section that fits on your existing upper link, though you may have to shorten it a tad, or you can use SS quik-links on heavy chain with eyes big enough to get the proper pin size through.

My buddy in Ohio used the "all-chain" method to hitch his scraper box in order to do his driveway. Hard mounted, he used to have to drive at a walking pace to get a decent finish.

With the chain lowered to "slack" the box essentially floated on its own weight. He said it worked like magic and the finish job it did was flawless. Plus, he could run the tractor at four times the speed, and on his 1/4mi driveway, that made a huge difference. When he was done, he could still pick up the box and drive away. Bought all the parts at TSC. My TSC opens in a few months, so I'll fabricate mine later.

Anyway, just another idea if it works for you...

Ray

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Lil Foot

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How about a pic of said pin pullage? And maybe the result?
 

coachgeo

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Im confused I thought 3pt was always in Float when it's down all the way.

BTW- Disclaimer is funny..... but a bit much for a signature line. It's distracting
 

CaveCreekRay

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Tractors son... dangerous business...DONT TRY THIS AT HOME!!! Can't be too careful with the surge in booger-eating-morons out there. :)

My buddy is at work. When he gets home, I'll get him to post some pictures of his chain upper link and the result on his gravel driveway. To simulate it on your box or rake, just disconnect the upper link and drag it a ways. The problem is, with the hard link detached, you cannot pick up the implement to travel. But, with the formerly relaxed chained pulled tight again, you can pick up the implement and travel, just like with a hard link.

I have pulled my rake with the upper detached and it worked well, except for chattering in the corners. (I think that could be resolved by slowing down but my brother drives race cars and a Kubota is like "slo-mo" for him.) I don't have the nifty chain mod made up for my tractor yet but I will do pull it with the upper disconnected and see if mine works as well. I'll post pictures.

Stay tuned...
 

CaveCreekRay

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The Problem: The rake chatters when pulled via 2-point. The smooth part is the box pulled 2-point (upper released)

[URL=http://s307.photobucket.com/user/CaptStark/media/Kubota-2point-5.jpg.html][/URL]

The box fills up, but then glides on its own layer of material. This material is decomposing granite...

[URL=http://s307.photobucket.com/user/CaptStark/media/Kubota-2point-4.jpg.html][/URL]

Shot of box from rear... notice 1/2" between blade and surface...

[URL=http://s307.photobucket.com/user/CaptStark/media/Kubota-2point-6.jpg.html][/URL]

This area was a booger due to washout from our monsoons. I could NEVER get this level via 3-point. Here is one pass via 2-point. Extra material in box fills voids really nicely.

[URL=http://s307.photobucket.com/user/CaptStark/media/Kubota-2point-3.jpg.html][/URL]


Now, try it and show me YOUR pictures! :)
 
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ShaunRH

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The upper link is your box's pitch control so it's finding it's own level in 2 point. That's not quite 'float' but float with no pitch control so 'free wheeling'? I have no idea what to call it, maybe just a 'drag' connection.

I'd probably put 4' 2x4 runners on the sides of the box bottom so it didn't just arbitrarily decide to change pitch and dig in or dump the box. Call it sled skis for the box.

On the rake, change the side pitch so it's at an angle, the chatter should stop when you hit the right angle for the corners.
 

CaveCreekRay

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CoachGeo,

My experience is that once the 3-point goes past grade contact, I still get the tractor influencing the implement angle. With the 3-point all the way down, I still seem to get a wavy pass if the tractor is riding through bumps. I agree with you, float when the 3-pt is all the way down, makes more sense for the intended purpose. Of course, I am plowing in soft material so full down may put enough weight on the implement to dig in more when I was using the rake reversed, but the 400lb box scraper stops digging in once the box fills up -and it floats. Not sure if it did that on gravel but we'll know next week when my friend gets home. I'll try it again with box scraper and later with the rake next time I have it loaded up

Sorry about the distracting disclaimer. Not in my signature, I promise.
 

CaveCreekRay

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Thanks Shaun. I'll try that with the rake!

A friend of mine uses his box to drag his two horse pastures. I'll ask him if he goes full down on his 3pt because his passes are laser level and the ridge between passes is like mine in the pictures above.

One way to test the float is to lower my box on a floor jack. I'll have to try that too...

Thanks guys.
 

Tx Jim

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Simple test so you can determine for yourself that the 3 pt hitch on your tractor "floats" is with nothing attached to fully lowered 3 pt hitch with engine running reach down and pick up on one of the draft arms and rotate rockshaft all the way to the top. Very few tractors have no float on 3 pt hitch and Kubota isn't one without a floating 3 pt hitch.
 
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CaveCreekRay

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Thanks Jim!

I'll try it. What's a "rockshaft?"
 

North Idaho Wolfman

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The key to working with a box blade on soft material is the angle of the attack, lengthening the top link will put more weight on the back blade and cause it to float more than dig. ;)
 

CaveCreekRay

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As usual, the wealth of knowledge here is awesome. Thanks to everyone!

For newbies: The 3pt will float above whatever lower limit you select with the selector. Lowering the selector all the way down will give the implement the widest degree of freedom to float. The lowest setting will allow a box to move up or down within the limits of the 3pt. There is a slight change in "angle of attack" of the implement, relative to the line between the front and rear axles, depending on where the implement is, high or low.

Even though the implement will "float" up and down through the degrees of freedom offered by the hitch design, as the relative change in level of the axles occurs, slight changes will be transmitted to the implement because the 3pt geometry produces a slight "radius" in the top to bottom travel of the implement because of the difference between upper link and lower arm length.

I talked to my former neighbor who drags his horse corrals. He goes full down, the box fills up, and then floats on its contents as it slides along. If you try to limit the "floor" of your box or blade, you likely won't get the benefits associated with allowing the box to fill up, which is necessary for filling in depressions and smoothing out undulating terrain. As the front of the tractor goes down, the rear limit will come up and that may lift your implement if you don't select the "full down" bottom limit for the 3pt.

Pulling 2pt allows the implement a little more freedom to move about and may offer a different finish, depending on the implement. Experiment!

Hope that helps...
 

coachgeo

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for doing banked turns wonder if you could just add say 5"-8"? length of chain to the two sides and use solid top link? or Chain all 3? Might allow for following natural contour of the bank if of course you like the existing bank and are not trying to manipulate it. Granted you would need to limit chain length so not to get into the wheels
 

North Idaho Wolfman

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Ray, I don't mean to poo poo on a parade but here goes.

I spotted several major issues to the chain top link idea!

#1. The sides of the box blade are just digging into the ground and will just wear out and in a short period of time you will have a junk box blade.
There is a reason that there is 2 blades on the box, one reason is to push material in the direction of travel the second is to float the blade in the opposite direction of travel.

#2. Think about this real carefully, what can happen to this box blade when it it's a semi solid or solid object on the front of the wing???
I'll tell you, it rotates the blade up towards the tractor and either contacts the tires, which can get really ugly really fast, or it contacts the back of the tractor and breaks/ bend/ destroys who knows what.

So based on these 2 factors I wouldn't call it a good or safe idea to hang a box blade on the back of your tractor with a chain for a top link.

Again I will say, if you adjust the top link properly so the weight is on the back blade of the box, it will float. ;)
 

CaveCreekRay

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Good points, especially about the wear.

My box pulling 2pt floats about level. Notice the edges of the lower box are parallel to the ground. That may be due to the smaller grain of the material I was grading vs large rock. The box was full indeed.

[URL=http://s307.photobucket.com/user/CaptStark/media/Kubota-2point-4.jpg.html][/URL]

Bert's box was elevated at the back and that may concentrate his pressure (wear) on the front edge. I'll have him try your suggestion the next time he drags his driveway. The way he had it set up before with the hard top link, he had to drive ever so slow.

I put a well in. The well tailings were 4" of gooey white clay mix when it came out of the ground. After drying out, I was able to drag by box through it today and, once the box filled with material, the box started to float -like magic. The pass left a smooth finish and I was able to slowly raise the box to get it emptied with a nice taper.

Mine must be set up better. We'll have him try it!
 
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