Elder Care

RCW

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I know several OTT members have dealt with care of elder parents or other family.

My folks are well into their 80’s and their health has declined greatly over last couple years. They live an hour from us.

I responded to a call from my dad this afternoon; my mom took a fall last night. When I got there she seemed fine but certainly was sore.

There’s lots of issues at hand, but didn’t fathom my pending retirement might be dictated by care and well being of my parents.
 

mcmxi

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I know several OTT members have dealt with care of elder parents or other family.

My folks are well into their 80’s and their health has declined greatly over last couple years. They live an hour from us.

I responded to a call from my dad this afternoon; my mom took a fall last night. When I got there she seemed fine but certainly was sore.

There’s lots of issues at hand, but didn’t fathom my pending retirement might be dictated by care and well being of my parents.
This is a situation that I'll never have to deal with. My mum passed away about 3 weeks before my 2nd birthday, and my dad passed away when I was 14 years old. I would rather that they were still alive and that I had the noble task of making their lives as good as possible.

I hope you're able to find a balance between enjoying your hard-earned retirement and taking care of your parents. I saw the struggle that my ex-wife had with her dad, who got dementia at a relatively early age. It took a toll on her for sure, and it was a relief to all when he finally passed away.
 
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RCW

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Thanks.

My folks were in very good shape until a couple years ago. Both the in-laws have passed.

They own a very nice house that is horrendous for their current status. They need help from folks for routine care, etc. They won’t seek any help. It’s a “farmer” thing….and I’m proof that genetics works….

They will need help navigating through the next phases. I have 2 siblings but they live far away.
 
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DustyRusty

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Skilled nursing care runs about $10,000 a month on average. I have a friend who went into skilled nursing care and his home was sold. When that money runs out, the State will take over his care. Some facilities will take a lump sum and provide care for the rest of your natural life, and they base the figure on your current condition and how long they think you will live. Usually, they make the call in their favor, however, sometimes the person in their care fools them and lives a lot longer than was expected.
 

RCW

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Thankfully at this juncture I think I need to concentrate on immediate needs which are much less intensive than a SNF.

I think near-term is support for meals on wheels, and other aspects of their office for aging can provide to them.

Follow that with discussions with them about housing/accommodations more senior friendly.

In their area there are senior housing apartments and adult care facilities that are assisted living, but far short of a skilled nursing environment.

Certainly would involve their current home and whether they choose/can keep it.

Given our self-sufficient/ self-determined heritage, it will be a struggle at every turn….. I know I wouldn’t go along without controversy….
 
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Daferris

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My folks 1st went to an assisted living facility. It looked like a quality place. Was only 3-4 years old at the time. That place was a local Michigan chain of about 5 different homes in the Lower peninsula. However their hiring standards left a bit to be desired. As 5-6 months in a couple of the staff got caught " sampling" the pain meds. My suggestion is your the place at at least 2 different times of day to see what the staff and care is like on different shifts. Note that this was about 15- 18 years ago. But that was my experience.
 
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Henro

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Thankfully at this juncture I think I need to concentrate on immediate needs which are much less intensive than a SNF.

I think near-term is support for meals on wheels, and other aspects of their office for aging can provide to them.

Follow that with discussions with them about housing/accommodations more senior friendly.

In their area there are senior housing apartments and adult care facilities that are assisted living, but far short of a skilled nursing environment.

Certainly would involve their current home and whether they choose/can keep it.

Given our self-sufficient/ self-determined heritage, it will be a struggle at every turn….. I know I wouldn’t go along without controversy….
I believe any kind of senior housing is totally self-pay and not covered by any state assistance.

My guess is that what comes in the future is going to be a balance between what your parents want and what you think is best for them. You must be careful that you don’t impose what you think is best for them at the expense reducing or eliminating what they feel is best for them.

If you elect to follow their lead, there’s also a chance that something unfortunate might happen like maybe a fall. An injury occurs that is serious enough that requires nursing home care for one of your parents.

But until that point is reached, they will have had an extension of the life they want, or the life they think they want, that wouldn’t be there if you somehow forced them to do something they didn’t want to do.

I certainly don’t know the answer. I’m not at the age of your parents, but I might be within 10 years of them. Personally, I would be inclined to tell my kids let me do what I want, and if I fall down and break my neck, or whatever might happen it’s on me. I certainly don’t want my kids to force me to do something that I don’t want to do, even if I am being unreasonable in their eyes.

Since you have two other siblings, you might want to discuss this with them. But it comes down to this: Do you want to force your thoughts on your parents if they are able to think clearly on their own? Might be different if they were suffering from dementia and unable to understand what’s going on, but that doesn’t sound like the case.

Your situation is very difficult. Maybe you should sit down with them and just honestly lay things on the table and see what they say…
 
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Daren Todd

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My folks 1st went to an assisted living facility. It looked like a quality place. Was only 3-4 years old at the time. That place was a local Michigan chain of about 5 different homes in the Lower peninsula. However their hiring standards left a bit to be desired. As 5-6 months in a couple of the staff got caught " sampling" the pain meds. My suggestion is your the place at at least 2 different times of day to see what the staff and care is like on different shifts. Note that this was about 15- 18 years ago. But that was my experience.
Unfortunately, sampling the pain meds is all over the place. It happens in just about every nursing home and assisted living facility.

it doesn't matter what the facility is rated at. It happens from time to time In every facility that deals with pain killers.

A back ground check doesn't always show that the person has a problem. And some people are really good at hiding the addiction.
 
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DaveFromMi

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You should make sure they have a will and appoint you or other dependable family member as power of attorney. I am POA for my brother, who resides in a nursing home for long term care. To finance long term care, we enlisted the help of Medicaid attorneys. I bought out his portion of the farm. 1/2 of that amount was gifted back to me and the other half minus expenses was a loan from my brother to me. So his income is SS Disability plus the loan payments. The combination (private) pays for the nursing home. When the loan term is done, Medicaid will pick up his room and board.
 
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NorthwoodsLife

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I went through this the last couple years. Mom had dementia and my step father demanded to keep taking care of her at home. Both in their 80's.
Last year, they finally they moved into assisted living after mom didn't know any of us, including her husband. Memory Care because my mom had dementia. My mom died 3 months later.
My step dad has moved from Memory care into the Normal (not mental health) - part of the facility. He loves it. He doesn't have to cook or mow grass or take care of the house. He's putting the house up for sale. They even have a Happy Hour. My sister held the Power of Attorney for mom. It's about 6K a month to stay there.

I go to my mother's Celebration of Life in a few days.

I never understood (but I do now) my step father wanting to care for my mom at home and alone after the dementia hit so hard. Us four children of mom got together to talk to him and still he wanted to keep her home. Money wasn't an issue. The issue was "Accepting the fact that you are near the end. This life on earth is almost over."

Find your peace. God Loves You.
 
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NCL4701

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We lived about 100 yards from my parents for about 26 of the 34 years we’ve been married. My mother passed about 15 years ago after surviving ovarian cancer and several years of Parkinson’s. My father took care of her at home until her last monthlong hospital stay. He wouldn’t accept any help at all except the occasional dementia spells when she thought he was a stranger trying to harm her. I’d have to go down to their house to yell at her to quit being stupid telling me the man she’d been married to for 50+ years was a stranger trying to kill her. She’d snap out of it, apologize for being a PITA, I’d apologize for yelling at her, we’d share a hug, and I’d walk back home. Usually a couple times a month in the wee hours of the morning. Good times…

My dad was independent for a few years after. He was always a hard charging, in control, my way or no way guy. The kind of guy that GC’d his own house and named our road after himself since he’s the one that cleared the trees and made the road. His body eventually failed, but his brain worked just fine all the way to the end. Letting him do what he wanted to do and could do for himself, allowing him to retain self determination without being neglectful; sometimes trying to keep that balance I felt kind of like he and I were like those guys balancing on a log in the water… continually dancing to give him the best quality of life he could have while not killing each other.

Started out, we were just neighbors. Two grown men living beside each other. Then he quit cutting trees by himself, because he was a little slow to be able to move if something went wrong. Later, when he couldn’t feel his feet well, he quit ladders. Over the course of years it progressed to me doing his house maintenance, most of the outside maintenance, he’d shoot deer but I’d get them up and dress them, and eventually I’d pick him up and set him in my truck to take him to doctor appointments.

And yet the picture with his contact on my phone was of him sitting on the old N holding me when I was an infant. I used that pic because it reminded me I shouldn’t strangle him or even be mean to him despite him clearly being in some sort of competition for the most irritating person in the planet. (Not just my opinion, my brother agreed. He was 2 hours away so not able to enjoy the day to day with me.)

It isn’t easy. My issue with my father was he wouldn’t tell me or his doctors when he needed help. I’ve known others whose problem was their parent exaggerates, won’t even try to do anything, and insist on being waited on hand and foot. There’s
no one answer. You do the best you can and try to take care of them in a respectful way even if that respect isn’t returned.

I also know that feeling of FINALLY being retired and having family health issues that have me doing more stuff that’s a duty than the seemingly elusive “whatever you want to do”. Maybe someday…
 
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GrizBota

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I’ll be watching this.

My parents have been gone for over a decade, but the in-laws are at this stage.

They are very stubborn, won’t leave the hillside they live on and move 5 miles to one of two of the rentals they own on flat ground. Neither can walk without a walker. Neither can get themselves off the floor when they fall and they can’t help the other one off the floor either. This year has seen three 911 calls and ambulance rides and a dozen plus frantic calls to my wife ranging from the TV won’t come on to Mom/Dad is on the floor/ground. Early in the year it was Dad taking a fall due to a mini stroke (maybe), so he’d fall like a tree and bash his head every time. In the last 5 weeks, I’ve been there three times getting folks off the ground. We live about 20 minutes away.

It’s hard on my wife. She works part time, stops over there after work and fixes their dinner. Goes over everyday she’s not working. Her two siblings are 1.5 and 3.5 hours away. One helps a week or so each month, the other one has helped one day twice. All of them are in denial as to how serious the situation is. We can’t leave for the weekend to visit our daughters without getting one of the siblings to come down to take over.

I suspect by the end of the year it will be sorted one way or the other. Probably the other.
 
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NorthwoodsLife

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Gone are the old days when A child moves in with mom and pop and take care of them until the end. Or mom and pop move in with one of their children.

At least in this country.

Too much pride going on.... IMO

Money is the root.
 

Poohbear

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We went thru this with my late MiL. She moved into asstd living at 87 after some major heart issues . she loved it. As said, get wills, medical power of attorney, etc asap
I would at least start researching facilities and any financial aid that might be available to them. Is your Dad a Vet as there may be some VA benefits. My buddy gets $2400 mo from VA for a non-service related disability after injuries in a truck accident when he was 75. He did do 2 tours in Vietnam for the Marines so He earned it IMO
 

Flintknapper

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I’ll be watching this.

My parents have been gone for over a decade, but the in-laws are at this stage.

They are very stubborn, won’t leave the hillside they live on and move 5 miles to one of two of the rentals they own on flat ground. Neither can walk without a walker. Neither can get themselves off the floor when they fall and they can’t help the other one off the floor either. This year has seen three 911 calls and ambulance rides and a dozen plus frantic calls to my wife ranging from the TV won’t come on to Mom/Dad is on the floor/ground. Early in the year it was Dad taking a fall due to a mini stroke (maybe), so he’d fall like a tree and bash his head every time. In the last 5 weeks, I’ve been there three times getting folks off the ground. We live about 20 minutes away.

It’s hard on my wife. She works part time, stops over there after work and fixes their dinner. Goes over everyday she’s not working. Her two siblings are 1.5 and 3.5 hours away. One helps a week or so each month, the other one has helped one day twice. All of them are in denial as to how serious the situation is. We can’t leave for the weekend to visit our daughters without getting one of the siblings to come down to take over.

I suspect by the end of the year it will be sorted one way or the other. Probably the other.
Uncanny, the resemblance to the situation my Wife and I are in (with her parents). Nearly everything you wrote is our situation/life as well.

Both her parents have health issues (at 86 yrs. old and 90 yrs old). Her mother has dementia as well. I am retired, wife still working but about to retire. We live nearby....so spend a LOT of time checking on them and caring for them.

I can't count the number of times I've gotten a call that one or the other (or BOTH) have fallen down and unable to get up. Yet both nearly refuse to use their canes or walkers we have provided. Sooner or later one of them is going to break a hip....and it will pretty much be over then.

Not easy on anyone involved. Not the elderly and not the caretakers of them.
 

GeoHorn

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We went thru this also. Older brother, me, younger sister…. Things were fine until Dad’s COPD finally got him. (USAAF gave kids cig’s as a “benefit” for the debrief when they returned from a mission…. addicted a whole generation to tobacco.) We didn’t know Mom’s increasingly argumentative behavior was anything other than her usual grumpiness…she was probably into alzheimer/dementia a couple years before it was finally diagnosed.
Older brother/sister-in-law lived a couple miles from her and checked on her…and go out to dinner w/her several times a week…but Mom refused to consider asst’d living. I finally got her to let sister onto her banking accounts so sister could keep track of things…including a life-ins policy Dad had set up before he died naming bro/sis/me as beneficiaries. Sister could keep track online of housing expenses…elect, water, newspaper payments, etc etc.

Mom absolutely Refused to stop driving….went thru a period of intense Anger …and would complain to me that my bro had hidden her car keys…when in reality…she’d misplaced them. When she called the dealer for key-fob replacements….a salesman sold her a new car. After she got disoriented/lost and the police helped her find her way home…. I hid a cheap cell-phone in the trunk, the charger hot-wired to the car’s tail-lights and the phone GPS/map App set to “share location” so we could track her.)

No one wants to leave their home. We All want to stay where we’ve been so comfortable for so long. You…and I….will also face this some day.

Eventually we had to “trick” her into memory-care. (Brought her to the ranch for a couple weeks, then took her to memory-care/assisted-living facility…using a “story” her house was being fumigated and couldn’t be occupied for a week.) Her house stayed vacant for almost 3 years.
Eventually she pased-thru that “angry period” …and became a sweet-old-lady…. something she’d never been in her real life.

When I visited Mom at the memory-care unit she would occasionally complain that brother was “writing checks…lots of checks”….
I asked, “What do you mean…what kind of checks?” Mom would shrug and say…”Oh…a hundred dollars…”
I asked brother about that…”Yes”, he said, “I have to pay her utilities, etc.” (It seemed to be proper…especially when I realized Mom no longer understood the value of money…. When she realized the memory-care unit was where she would continue to live in the long-term…she asked if it was expensive…. I lied to her and told her it was $700/month…. (It was actually $7K/mo).
I realized she was no longer capable of Any Financial matters when she asked about the $700…. “Do I have that much..??)

I asked my sister (who had Pwr-of-atty) if sister was keeping track of Mom’s money …since bro was paying Mom’s bills using Mom’s checking-acct. Sis says “Yes! …and it’s amazing! He has been keeping her water/elect/insurance/etc paid up on-time, etc. He’s made a complete turn-around from his former spendthrift/borrow-from-Mother to pay his credit-cards-off… I’m impressed! I use the internet and see every activity on her checking-acct … I make sure her retirement checks are electronically-deposited…etc etc. …It all looks Great!”

I asked sister if she was keeping track of Mom’s investment acct’s at Fidelity.
“Oh, No. I have no idea how to access that information because I’m not on that acct.”
I told her, “Well ..a few years ago when Mom was interested in a computer, I set up her username/passwords… I know what those are…. Let’s log-in and make certain all is OK.”

When we did…. we found brother had been stealing …. almost a quarter-Mil over the last year!

The rest of this story is complicated and long …and I’ll not make y’all go thru it…. but it was a long and tricky maneuver to set things right. And despite strongly-worded criminal-laws against elder-abuse (to include monetary abuse)…. law enforcement considers this a family “civil” matter…. sis and I would have to spend many months, perhaps years in a law-suit against the brother to recover damages.
(He claimed Mom had “authorized” his withdrawals.…after-all…she Did allow him onto the financial-account.) I discovered that one check he’d written on that acct was for $10K to some previously unknown atty….. in an attempt to change the Will…. and actually Did get a “Life Estate Deed” created that gave all real estate to him the moment she died. That was the final straw.)

I managed to coerce him into a settlement-agreement when I asked him, “You DID report all that money to IRS as “income’…. Right…?” He went very Pale at that.

We (sis and I) moved Mom to a different facility and kept that information from bro… and using sisters POA, we sold her property before she died. (he can’t inherit real estate she no longer owned).

Mom died a couple years later…. Had fallen and broken a hip while in memory/asst’d living care. Hip replacement surgery and recover was confusing to her.
No sooner than that recovery ..(wonderful medical abilities these days)…. she either fell again and broke the opposite hip… or the opposite hip-joint broke and she fell….. Either way…she ended up with another hip-replacement and in a wheel chair for the last 3 months of her life …living with other elderly folks in asst’d living…. not recognizing us anymore.

Don’t think this can’t happen to you.
You always hear of these things from others… you just never believe it will occur in YOUR family. It makes for long-term…perhaps permanent damage to relationships. We (sis and I) haven’t talked to him in 10 years ….since we forced him into an inheritance-settlement. It’s deeply saddening.
 
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NCL4701

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We went thru this also. Older brother, me, younger sister…. Things were fine until Dad’s COPD finally got him. (USAAF gave kids cig’s as a “benefit” for the debrief when they returned from a mission…. addicted a whole generation to tobacco.) We didn’t know Mom’s increasingly argumentative behavior was anything other than her usual grumpiness…she was probably into alzheimer/dementia a couple years before it was finally diagnosed.
Older brother/sister-in-law lived a couple miles from her and checked on her…and go out to dinner w/her several times a week…but Mom refused to consider asst’d living. I finally got her to let sister onto her banking accounts so sister could keep track of things…including a life-ins policy Dad had set up before he died naming bro/sis/me as beneficiaries. Sister could keep track online of housing expenses…elect, water, newspaper payments, etc etc.

Mom absolutely Refused to stop driving….went thru a period of intense Anger …and would complain to me that my bro had hidden her car keys…when in reality…she’d misplaced them. When she called the dealer for key-fob replacements….a salesman sold her a new car. After she got disoriented/lost and the police helped her find her way home…. I hid a cheap cell-phone in the trunk, the charger hot-wired to the car’s tail-lights and the phone GPS/map App set to “share location” so we could track her.)

No one wants to leave their home. We All want to stay where we’ve been so comfortable for so long. You…and I….will also face this some day.

Eventually we had to “trick” her into memory-care. (Brought her to the ranch for a couple weeks, then took her to memory-care/assisted-living facility…using a “story” her house was being fumigated and couldn’t be occupied for a week.) Her house stayed vacant for almost 3 years.
Eventually she pased-thru that “angry period” …and became a sweet-old-lady…. something she’d never been in her real life.

When I visited Mom at the memory-care unit she would occasionally complain that brother was “writing checks…lots of checks”….
I asked, “What do you mean…what kind of checks?” Mom would shrug and say…”Oh…a hundred dollars…”
I asked brother about that…”Yes”, he said, “I have to pay her utilities, etc.” (It seemed to be proper…especially when I realized Mom no longer understood the value of money…. When she realized the memory-care unit was where she would continue to live in the long-term…she asked if it was expensive…. I lied to her and told her it was $700/month…. (It was actually $7K/mo).
I realized she was no longer capable of Any Financial matters when she asked about the $700…. “Do I have that much..??)

I asked my sister (who had Pwr-of-atty) if sister was keeping track of Mom’s money …since bro was paying Mom’s bills using Mom’s checking-acct. Sis says “Yes! …and it’s amazing! He has been keeping her water/elect/insurance/etc paid up on-time, etc. He’s made a complete turn-around from his former spendthrift/borrow-from-Mother to pay his credit-cards-off… I’m impressed! I use the internet and see every activity on her checking-acct … I make sure her retirement checks are electronically-deposited…etc etc. …It all looks Great!”

I asked sister if she was keeping track of Mom’s investment acct’s at Fidelity.
“Oh, No. I have no idea how to access that information because I’m not on that acct.”
I told her, “Well ..a few years ago when Mom was interested in a computer, I set up her username/passwords… I know what those are…. Let’s log-in and make certain all is OK.”

When we did…. we found brother had been stealing …. almost a quarter-Mil over the last year!

The rest of this story is complicated and long …and I’ll not make y’all go thru it…. but it was a long and tricky maneuver to set things right. And despite strongly-worded criminal-laws against elder-abuse (to include monetary abuse)…. law enforcement considers this a family “civil” matter…. sis and I would have to spend many months, perhaps years in a law-suit against the brother to recover damages.
(He claimed Mom had “authorized” his withdrawals.…after-all…she Did allow him onto the financial-account.) I discovered that one check he’d written on that acct was for $10K to some previously unknown atty….. in an attempt to change the Will…. and actually Did get a “Life Estate Deed” created that gave all real estate to him the moment she died. That was the final straw.)

I managed to coerce him into a settlement-agreement when I asked him, “You DID report all that money to IRS as “income’…. Right…?” He went very Pale at that.

We (sis and I) moved Mom to a different facility and kept that information from bro… and using sisters POA, we sold her property before she died. (he can’t inherit real estate she no longer owned).

Mom died a couple years later…. Had fallen and broken a hip while in memory/asst’d living care. Hip replacement surgery and recover was confusing to her.
No sooner than that recovery ..(wonderful medical abilities these days)…. she either fell again and broke the opposite hip… or the opposite hip-joint broke and she fell….. Either way…she ended up with another hip-replacement and in a wheel chair for the last 3 months of her life …living with other elderly folks in asst’d living…. not recognizing us anymore.

Don’t think this can’t happen to you.
You always hear of these things from others… you just never believe it will occur in YOUR family. It makes for long-term…perhaps permanent damage to relationships. We (sis and I) haven’t talked to him in 10 years ….since we forced him into an inheritance-settlement. It’s deeply saddening.
Thats very sad. My father and his sister, who were neighbors at the time, quit speaking in 1974 due to issues over their mother’s estate. Shortly after my mother passed he casually mentioned to me he had no idea where she was at or how to find her. Having some experience in finding people, even those who don’t want to be found, I told him if he’d give me all the identifying info he had on her I’d see what I could do. Couple days later he had her address, home phone, cell phone, email, aerial view of her property, etc. I don’t think he ever tried contacting her but I’m not positive.

He was very concerned that would happen to me and my brother or that we would take advantage of him if he ever became disabled. Then he was disabled and in a skilled nursing facility for about a year. I ran his business affairs and maintained his place. Brother and I have tag teamed the estate issues. He has his projects, I have mine, and we routinely report to each other. Having Quickbooks with view access for everyone involved and individual sign ons for all the accounts is something I, as the one handling the money day to day, have pretty much insisted upon. If someone wants to know why I wrote that $500 check, don’t worry about offending me or bothering me, pull it up on Quickbooks yourself and look at the pdf of the invoice that I attached to the paid bill. I like transparency.
 

RCW

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BX2360, FEL, MMM, BX2750D snowblower. 1953 Minneapolis Moline ZAU
Apr 28, 2013
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Chenango County, NY
Gone are the old days when A child moves in with mom and pop and take care of them until the end. Or mom and pop move in with one of their children.

At least in this country.

Too much pride going on.... IMO

Money is the root.
That was idyllic - those were the old days when families were not scattered like they are now.

I cannot be a caregiver as I have other obligations.

I'm an hour away from my folks and work every day, until I retire. I have my own home and wife that is working.

My siblings live 100's or 1,000's of miles away. They are not the people my folks would want in charge of their care or finances either.

I'm POA for both, and executor of their wills.

Their grandchildren live in other states.

Don't think any of it is related to Pride or Money.

It's the way things are in the modern era.

I only hope I can guide/facilitate them through their needed care.

It will all be at their volition.

They are both blockheads just like me.

Proof genetics works.....

I can lead horses to water, but can't always make them drink. ;)
 
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D2Cat

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Mar 27, 2014
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I can lead horses to water, but can't always make them drink. ;)

You may not be able to get the horse to drink, but you sure can put a lot of salt around!
 
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RCW

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BX2360, FEL, MMM, BX2750D snowblower. 1953 Minneapolis Moline ZAU
Apr 28, 2013
9,249
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Chenango County, NY
Well it’s definitely come to roost.

After her fall, mom wanted to give it some time to see if she would bounce back.

I agreed to that Friday afternoon while there.

She went to the hospital very early this morning.

Fracture in pelvis and shoulder.

Thankfully didn’t let it go any longer.
 
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