Do I deserve this?

[WFM]

Rules are rules and this house of tractors has rules too.
Just because I don't agree with someone doesn't make me right or them an idiot.
There was a virus thread here that showed how the virus gets spread and how many idiots there are that make poor decisions.
But it got nasty and the plug was pulled. The moderator is here to keep things civil we are the guests here.

 

[motionclone]

Rules are rules and this house of tractors has rules too.
The moderator is here to keep things civil we are the guests here.

Speak for yourself. Im not a guest, im a customer. I paid to be here both directly with a lifetime membership and indirectly by buying product that is advertised here(which ive now stopped doing)
I do agree that rules should be followed but those rules should be for ALL not some.

Sidecar may very well deserve what he gets but so does the mod thats been letting him get away with poor behavior time and time and time and time again.

 

[hagrid]

I had no idea you had two (2) M9000's?!?!?

Maybe I missed it the first 5,999 times you mentioned it.

 

[wgator]

Just because I don't agree with someone doesn't make me right or them an idiot.
There was a virus thread here that showed how the virus gets spread and how many idiots there are that make poor decisions.

wowser's, talk about contradiction!

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

To:
motionclone : In the past I didn't have the power to ban people for their bad actions I do now, that's why I didn't do it.
Temp or permanent bans are a good tool to deal with those that choose not to follow the rules of the forum or insult members on the forum.
And someone being a paid or unpaid member has no bearing on them being banned or not.

NHSleddog: We've had this conversation before, I don't have time to read and censor and fix everyone's posts, I did the best I could then The owner of the forum stepped in and passed more defined rules of what is allowed and what is not, I just try to enforce them.
You have an axe to grind with me and that's ok, grind away, it doesn't mean much to me.

SidecarFlip:
I posted your PM for 2 reasons: 1, because you locked the PM conversation so I couldn't reply to you on it, and 2, because I thought everyone on here should know that behind the scenes some people can be completely insulting.
You were told on quite a few occasions to stop with the insults and the political attack and slights and you didn't so you got a week off.
FYI: this is not the first Nasty and insulting PM that I've gotten from you or other PM's that you've sent to other members, yea I've read those too.

Posting a PM was a low blow, but I really wanted others to see what I deal with.
I didn't want sympathy or a poor me, or anything of the sort from anyone.
People always ask me why I deleted posts or locked threads, or banned someone, it's always for a good reason whether you get it ot not.
No, PMing me insults might not get you banned, but other this are more likely to do that.

I think I've covered it all...
I'll just say, thanks to all the members that make this forum great!

 

[motionclone]

Why are we talking about the inside details and challenges of your job as a mod ?
Isnt this just a tractor forum??????
We should just talk about tractors and weather. Period.

 

[GeoHorn]

Why are we talking about the inside details and challenges of your job as a mod ?
Isnt this just a tractor forum??????
We should just talk about tractors and weather. Period.

Well... THIS...IS... the “Off Topic” area....

 

[jabloomf1230]

We should just talk about tractors and weather. Period.

As long as you mean weather and not climate.

Seriously, though this is one of the most well run and informative sites on the Internet that I visit. I never knew that there was so much to learn about a piece of tech that hasn't advanced very much from the 19th century. Reading OTT has saved me a bunch of effort so many times that I've lost track. Well, enough of this. I have to go outside and take the FEL off and put the snowblower on. Hmm is it the white marked hose on top or black one?

 

[Magicman]

.

 

[armylifer]

I don't really want to get in a peeing contest but I must comment that PM means PRIVATE message, not PUBLIC message. The word private has just one meaning in this context.

 

[L35]

I think moderators that post PMs are not suited for the job. Real drama queen stuff there wolfman. I enjoy your technical posts but you need to leave the moderator stuff private or you loose the respect you have earned with the former.

 

[ccoon520]

NIW, I have never had an issue on how you run things here and frankly still don't. Since your toolbox recently expanded and rules have become more defined you are more than welcome to do as you please. As far as making a private message public some people take that differently than others, but if you want my opinion be more decisive and less defensive. If you step over the line the owner of the site will let you know and you can reign it in.

The internet is the wild west and people get a lot bolder to impose their views on everyone else, hurl insults and throw trash at others because more likely than not there won't be any consequences. This is a privately owned site and has the right to allow or disallow anything the owner wants to. If someone has an issue with what is allowed or not they are more than welcome to open their own site Orange Tractor Convos and run it how they see fit. Whether it is an OTT competitor, smear NIW page or an opus to the all mighty Xenu. Frankly Mr. K has the right and maybe even the capability to IP ban anyone on this sight and not allow them to make a backup account if he wanted to.

TLDR: Keep up the hard work, no need to defend your choices. If the harassments gets to the level that you deem worthy drop the ban hammer and move on. If the person is a lifetime member then Mr. K gets 60 bucks for site upkeep with one fewer headache for you.

 

[armylifer]

I think that there is something being overlooked here. Although this site is owned by Mr. K, he charges members a fee for membership. It is stated as a membership fee, not an access fee. This incurs a contract between him and the paid members. Exactly what that contract is, probably no one knows since I have never seen more than just the rules of conduct, and they have changed from what they were when I joined.

Since we are charged for membership, we have certain rights. One of those rights as I see it, is to have an appeals process for any suspension or "vacation" from use. There does not seem to be any appeals process established. If a moderator can decide to suspend someone from access for a period of time without an appeals process, that makes him a dictator. I think it is time to establish an appeals process to ensure that there is fair treatment for all concerned.

 

[ccoon520]

I think that there is something being overlooked here. Although this site is owned by Mr. K, he charges members a fee for membership. It is stated as a membership fee, not an access fee. This incurs a contract between him and the paid members. Exactly what that contract is, probably no one knows since I have never seen more than just the rules of conduct, and they have changed from what they were when I joined.

Since we are charged for membership, we have certain rights. One of those rights as I see it, is to have an appeals process for any suspension or "vacation" from use. There does not seem to be any appeals process established. If a moderator can decide to suspend someone from access for a period of time without an appeals process, that makes him a dictator. I think it is time to establish an appeals process to ensure that there is fair treatment for all concerned.

Yes you have the option to pay a membership fee. However, the benefits this gives you are outlined on the page that advertises the membership which are these:


Everything in Premium, plus a custom profile page and personal media gallery to store images. Buy once and pass down to a future generation.
Site supporter ribbons
50% fewer ads
Receive push notifications
See who is watching or reacting to posts
Customize your signature
Customize the look of your public profile page
Create a personal media gallery to share

you are still required to act within the rules of the page. No where does it outline different rules for members. Members just get the expanded services listed and as long as you have access to those services no breach of contract has occurred.

Now how does that relate to receiving the ban hammer after paying for lifetime membership? You probably forfeit your 60 bucks. As opposed to the premium membership where if you get banned after a year you are only out the 25 or 50 bucks.

Granted I am not an attorney but from what is listed on the page no where does it say there is an appeals process. Just like you can't call for an appeal at a Sam's Clube for enforcing its no shirt no shoes service policy.

 

[NHSleddog]

....Granted I am not an attorney but from what is listed on the page no where does it say there is an appeals process. Just like you can't call for an appeal at a Sam's Clube for enforcing its no shirt no shoes service policy.

Ahhhhh sure, but you are assuming the rules were broke. What happens when Sams throws you out for not wearing a shirt when you have one on? I am not an attourney either but I know one that would sue them for it - lol.

NIW has deleted posts of mine that had no "rule breaking" content in them. I have even asked him why he deleted or censored them. I was told he doesn't have time to explain why he didn't like the post.

NIW is also BIG on selective enforcement. "No political talk" what he means is none that he doesn't agree with (my only issue). See post #17 IN THIS VERY THREAD for an example. If flip posted his oposing thoughts it would be deleted already. Geo can say what he wants. He actually called a bunch of us natzi's one day and that post is still up too. If you point it out to NIW, he will tell you he doesn't have time to deal with all the complaints. I guess I should feel honored that he has time to find and delete mine.

And the whole "Private Business" USED to be a good excuse to ban people. I have some cake makers I would like to introduce you to, to explain how that has changed. This is a public forum being run commercially, there are rules involved.

A forum without members isn't really a forum. It does not exist in a vacuum, It is the members that create all the content.

I supposed we should be thankful this isn't here yet - lol.

Why can't you see this post?
It has been FACT CHECKED BY OTT
Although the information provided is accurate, we feel some of it may not be, we will air on the side of caution and censor others from seeing it.
​

 

[sheepfarmer]

Ahhhhh sure, but you are assuming the rules were broke. What happens when Sams throws you out for not wearing a shirt when you have one on? I am not an attourney either but I know one that would sue them for it - lol.

NIW has deleted posts of mine that had no "rule breaking" content in them. I have even asked him why he deleted or censored them. I was told he doesn't have time to explain why he didn't like the post.

NIW is also BIG on selective enforcement. "No political talk" what he means is none that he doesn't agree with (my only issue). See post #17 IN THIS VERY THREAD for an example. If flip posted his oposing thoughts it would be deleted already. Geo can say what he wants. He actually called a bunch of us natzi's one day and that post is still up too. If you point it out to NIW, he will tell you he doesn't have time to deal with all the complaints. I guess I should feel honored that he has time to find and delete mine.

And the whole "Private Business" USED to be a good excuse to ban people. I have some cake makers I would like to introduce you to, to explain how that has changed. This is a public forum being run commercially, there are rules involved.

A forum without members isn't really a forum. It does not exist in a vacuum, It is the members that create all the content.

I supposed we should be thankful this isn't here yet - lol.

Why can't you see this post?
It has been FACT CHECKED BY OTT
Although the information provided is accurate, we feel some of it may not be, we will air on the side of caution and censor others from seeing it.
​

I think you are often oblivious as to the reasons your posts might be viewed as objectionable. Common courtesy seems to have gone the way of common sense these days. Regrettably you are not alone.

 

[sdk1968]

im also a "lifetime member" who paid. it wasnt to be here"...

thats not an accurate description of what "we" pay for.

No one is "paying to be here". Everyone pays for the extra things it allows them to have/do. NO ONE is made to pay..... it was a choice. a 1 time choice at that.

Its also just a way to support the site & keep it online.

"Paying" doesnt give anyone the right to move outside the posted rules of the site.

as to post deleting/removing/editing: This is what Moderators/Admins are supposed to do.

thats the job of the spot. will everyone like the results? Of course not. You balance the job with whats best for the site as a whole. not just 1 person. This isnt always a popular move. Its not a popularity contest to run a website. Its a job that people do.

about posting a PM: yeah its a private message. there is no rule posted or law that exists that says yo u cant post a private message sent to YOU. Its YOUR message & if you wanna make it public? Then so be it.

its a tool that a Mod/Admin sometimes uses to show the complete story vs the often altered quote or he said she said nonsense that we all deal with.

If you are afraid of something you put in a PM being posted? Then you probably shouldnt have sent it to start with.

people are enormously brave sitting behind a computer screen & act in a completely different way than they usually do face to face. Its just how life on the net is.

This whole thing is getting way off the topic of the original post by Wolfman. Look for this to be closed/locked up soon.

 

[Henro]

I do not really have a clue about what Flip posted. Do not really care either.

HOWEVER, I think it is in poor taste to post the content of a private message without the permission of the sender.

Actually there should be a rule banning such activity.

 

[WHW]

I do not often post comments, however I wanted to add my 2 cents.

I do agree with sdk1968 in his assessment. Back when I had a real job, I quickly learned that dealing with employees (or subscribers) was often the worst part of it.

When you had a person that caused dissension or morale problems, I would sit with them and try to explain that they might be a fast consistent worker who understood the business etc....but no one is irreplaceable.

I would advise them that this was a verbal warning and would be documented as so. If there was another problem, they would be formally written up and on probation.

I further promised them that they had used their last "get out of jail free card". Another incident was going to result in termination.

I can hear some in here thinking, "Damn, what an bast..d"!

Yes, that would be a true statement.

 

[motionclone]

I think you are often oblivious as to the reasons your posts might be viewed as objectionable. Common courtesy seems to have gone the way of common sense these days. Regrettably you are not alone.

lol thats funny, you also seem oblivious to posts of your own that can and are viewed as objectionable. Difference being you are NEVER publicly berated for them and those same rules that apply to some of us dont seem to apply to you or others.

You were jumping up and down trying to get political talk completely removed and you succeeded yet you were one of the very ones who was most political in a nasty way.

This is the real issue here. Not what the rules are but how they are applied amongst select members.