Ditches and trenching in (near) concrete

[BadDog]

I've got a beat up old B7100 that I bought to help with a fixer-upper old horse property in Phoenix (short sale, been let go badly). A lot of what I have to do involves trenching for irrigation lines, planting, and so on. To help with that, I want to use the tractor to break the hard caliche soil, maybe inserting the pipe/wire as I go. Looks like what I need is called a sub-soiler, but I've also seen it called (I think) a chisel plow, middle buster, ripper, and other names.

First question is, what do I really need to look for, and what is the "proper" name? I've got a Gearmore catalog has something that appears to be I need and calls it a "Single Shank Ripper". That could be modified with the feeder (tube/wire), but really I don't mind shoveling out the loose broken dirt. What I hate is the pick work with it still over 100* after the sun goes down. Just finished a had line back-wash for the pool by digging over 40' of trench 12-14" deep with a larger leach bed at the end to drain the low pipe. I don't want to do that again.

Second question. There is almost nothing for used farm equipment around here. What there is will almost exclusively be aimed at horse stable management. So if I must buy new, what brands/features do I really want to look for? Obviously it can't be very big with a sub-18 hp tractor and Cat 1 hitch. But for limited personal use, at what point am I buying quality/features I don't need? Can't cut it too cheap because I'm basically trying to rip weak concrete, but where is the sweet point of price/value? I do want to get one with a narrow point for breaking/trenching, and a shovel for widening and use when I get around to gardening, but what else should be on the want list?

 

[Bulldog]

A sub soiler is what you need. I have used one to bury wire before and it worked great. Just weld a short piece of curved pipe to the side of the shank so it will feed the wire in the ditch the ripper makes and your in business.

 

[pmhowe]

Here is a link that might be helpful:
http://www.greentractortalk.com/for...il-cable-running-today-not-bad-all-1026r.html

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

I don't think you'll be able to rip with that tractor. Caliche is very hard, think stone, it's tough enough to stop a D9 Cat in it's tracks. If it's just the hard pan above the caliche that your trying to break up that's still going to be a tough task for the little guy.
When we did trenching there we used a chain trencher with rock teeth and that was a very slow process.

There is are several versions of the rippers you need to get the one with the smallest width blade if your even going to have a shot at it.

For any gardening use a rototiller attachment!

 

[BadDog]

Thanks to all!

That's what I was afraid of. Some of the soil isn't too terrible, but in areas ranging from about 6" to 14" down, it frequently turns into full on caliche, and that stuff is no fun with a pick.

No idea how difficult to control the depth, or if it's even possible, but the tractor is way stronger than I am, so there has to be (hopefully) something better than me staying up after midnight (to cool off a bit) and spending an hour or more swinging that pick axe...

 

[Eric McCarthy]

Might have to check into hiring somebody with a trencher in your neck of the woods and have them cut you some lines. Let them trash and tear up their machine which is properly suited to do the job anyway.

 

[BadDog]

I'm ok with that. I rented a largish walk behind Ditch trencher for putting in the several hundred feed of irrigation AND made multiple passes for width to break up the row for the 5 gal oleanders (65 of them) we added as a privacy/noise barrier around the back lot orchard. Renting can be a good value. But I bought the tractor for convenience, and that's why I wanted the ripper/sub-soiler. Just like the latest project. It's not worth the trouble and expense to rent haul and return for a 40' line. And it's just not possible to get everything lined up for one day. What I find most often is I need a trench on short notice of 5' to 40' in length. Or a generally busted up area of some 100 sq ft or so. And my neighbors that have tractors are mostly like mine (or less) just managing the horses and stables, so they don't even have equipment I need. And I absolutely hate to borrow anything...

The idea was to use my little tractor, even if multiple passes, to avoid nearly laying myself up for 2 days with back and leg pain, not to mention the discomfort of the actual work event. And I've only got 1.3 acres, so even though I could have gotten a larger tractor for about the same money, it just makes no sense as this thing gets tight in some areas.

So now I'm trying to make it all useful within reason.

I'm now thinking I may make my own. Seems like the commercial units have little or no control over depth other than bottoming the hitch. I'm thinking a heavy inverted T with vertical and horizontal receiver hitches. I use 2" receiver hitch material all around my shop for mounting various tools. That includes 2 types of long stock benders (roll bar and flat stock), a smallish brake, several vises, an anvil, a heavy fab table, a light transfer gib crane, bead roller, and some other misc items. There are 3 mounts on my heavy welding table, a free standing post outside when I need more room, and adapters for both horizontal offset and vertical off my trucks (some with front and rear receivers). So I'm no stranger to using receiver material as a universal mount. Anyway, a piece of flame cut 1" AR (500 or 600?) plate to form the main spar with 2" mount into vertical receiver bottom and pinch bolt to secure. Maybe a sort of adjustable hydro (terra?) plane to control depth per pass. And a replaceable tooth made from an old school C2 or C5 brazed carbide lathe tool. Then I have a general purpose 3 point receiver mount and a sub-soiler with adjustable depth and narrow kerf. The harder part would be a decent plow foot for widening or middle-busting because it is lighter heat treated spring steel, hard to do in a home shop, but that could probably be bought.

Might even add some hooks to the inverted T to be used as a quick hitch.

 

[skeets]

Sounds like plan,, don't forget pictures ,,,,

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

We have Big R stores here, makes it nice they carry everything one needs to make just about anything.
You can get different teeth / blades for a ripper that might work for you.
Here are a few pic's of them.

 

[BadDog]

That first one looks similar to my vague idea. Unfortunately we have very little in the way of places to get that stuff here, at least not that I've found yet. No Big R, TSC, or anything else like that out here. Local Kubota (etc) dealer doesn't even stock sub soilers and needs 7 to 10 working days to get them in. They have one 3 pt backhoe (ouch!), a half dozen box blade/ganons, some forks, rough mowers, and harrows, plus lots of Bobcat construction stuff, that's it. Really nothing much at all for actual soil work with a tractor, other than what you would do on a horse property or mini-ranch. Prices seem a bit high, but haven't checked on just a ripper "tooth", or on the plow blade/foot alone.

 

[Eric McCarthy]

This will make you cry, there's a tractor mount trencher on Craigslist over here in my neck of the woods.

http://richmond.craigslist.org/grd/3882279415.html

 

[BadDog]

Yeah, you wouldn't find that here, and if you did, the price would be higher. But I don't know if my little beater would drive the hydraulic needs of that. Still, I might be tempted to give it a try, perhaps with an independent PTO driven pump, if it were local. <sigh>

 

[skeets]

DAYUM wonder if its still there?

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

BadDog, You can find them on ebay or I can get you one and send it to you. Points and spades are cheap.

 

[WFM]

Everything looks pretty beat and rusted to me...I wouldn't want any of it...

 

[BadDog]

Thanks much for the offer. If I can't find a good one otherwise, I may take you up on the spade.

I was looking at some on ebay, but with most being stock pictures (and some not even that), it's hard to tell what you are getting into.

Still, I found one site that sells one that looks good and includes adjustable bracket easily added to a receiver mount.

Then again, I know a guy down town about 30 minutes from here who makes stuff for the mining industry. I could get him to burn me a tine from AR plate on his CNC flame cutter. And he has stacks of remnants, we used some 2" thick pieces to make my 50T press plates. I can get it for scrap price and a case of beer (just to be neighborly, not expected). Frankly, for my use that AR steel is likely tough enough to use on it's own for my limited needs, or I could put a bit of carbide on the point, maybe from a rock drill. More work, but cheaper, made to fit, and modest bragging rights.

 

[Lil Foot]

I haven't been there yet, but I'm told Flagstaff has a Cal Ranch store, supposedly similar to Tractor Supply....might be worth a trip to the cool country to check it out..... especially with 115 degrees predicted for next week.