Discontinued Kubota Injector Lines

[5030su]

I’m looking for leads on where to find discontinued Kubota injector lines or options for having custom lines built.

The part numbers I’m searching for are:

• 17301-53710
• 17301-53720
• 17301-53730
• 17301-53740
• 17301-53750
• 17301-53760

If you have any suggestions or contacts who might be able to help, I would greatly appreciate it!

Thank you!

 

[Ktrim]

Google the part numbers. There are equipment suppliers showing them. German bliss equipment is one of them

 

[5030su]

Google the part numbers. There are equipment suppliers showing them. German bliss equipment is one of them

I did and both German Bliss and Coleman Equipment told me they are discontinued and they don't have them in stock. That why I was looking for aftermarket or custom build.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Try All states and see if they have a used set.

Used Kubota Tractor Parts and Salvage Yard | All States Ag Parts

Shop from our huge selection of Kubota tractors and skid steers salvaged for used parts. Call 877-530-4430 to be connected to your nearest All State Ag Parts salvage yard.

www.tractorpartsasap.com

 

[Ktrim]

I'm not familiar with how those lines look, but possibly make them out of brake line and a good flaring tool?

 

[D2Cat]

I'm not familiar with how those lines look, but possibly make them out of brake line and a good flaring tool?

NO way!!!! They have to be the EXACT length. Timing will not be correct.

Buy something at salvage yard.

 

[5030su]

NO way!!!! They have to be the EXACT length. Timing will not be correct.

Buy something at salvage yard.

I agree with D2cat; the parts need to be exact to avoid future issues. While salvage yard parts can sometimes be a viable option, they may carry the same risks.

I did find Scheiddiesel Service, which could be a good lead for these parts. I think they can custom build injector lines if I send If I send them my old lines. If anyone has additional suggestions or insights, please share!

 

[SDT]

I’m looking for leads on where to find discontinued Kubota injector lines or options for having custom lines built.

The part numbers I’m searching for are:

• 17301-53710
• 17301-53720
• 17301-53730
• 17301-53740
• 17301-53750
• 17301-53760

If you have any suggestions or contacts who might be able to help, I would greatly appreciate it!

Thank you!

Have you asked your dealer to run a parts locator of other dealer inventory?

 

[5030su]

Yes. Currently, 2 of the 6 lines are available—1 of each.

 

[L35]

I agree with D2cat; the parts need to be exact to avoid future issues. While salvage yard parts can sometimes be a viable option, they may carry the same risks.

I did find Scheiddiesel Service, which could be a good lead for these parts. I think they can custom build injector lines if I send If I send them my old lines. If anyone has additional suggestions or insights, please share!

If scheid says they can do it I’d have confidence in them, they are a top shelf outfit.

 

[Henro]

NO way!!!! They have to be the EXACT length. Timing will not be correct.

Buy something at salvage yard.

Not disputing this, but what is the theory behind this?

I mean, diesel fuel being a liquid is probably considered not compressible, so why would the length have to be EXACTLY the same for the original and the replacement?

My gut wants to think that close to being the same would be enough in the practical sense. But I have lived long enough to realize not to put too much faith into what my gut tells me.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Not disputing this, but what is the theory behind this?

I mean, diesel fuel being a liquid is probably considered not compressible, so why would the length have to be EXACTLY the same for the original and the replacement?

My gut wants to think that close to being the same would be enough in the practical sense. But I have lived long enough to realize not to put too much faith into what my gut tells me.

They do have to be the exact same length, it's quite critical.
The fluid is being compressed, A LOT, up to 32000PSI if i remember right.

Injector timing is within a milli second when at full RPM's.
If the length is wrong it can throw the timing off by quite a bit.

 

[Henro]

Well, the amount a liquid can be compressed is VERY small.

But I would think the limit of pressure felt by the fuel would be set by the pressure at which the injectors pop open. Probably much lower than 32,000 PSI. Just a guess though.

So I can understand the theoretical reasons why a coil of tubing would change things compared to a short length. And the largest reason might be that the tubing expands under pressure, so the volume is increased and this delays the fuel from reaching a pressure where the injector pops open.

But why would say an inch difference make much difference? Maybe it would, I am not arguing anything really, just trying to understand the specifics of why a small length difference would make a significant difference. Nothing more...

If I were to place a bet, I would bet a 5% difference in length would have no affect. BUT when I bet I always lose...so no bet here.

 

[Elliott in GA]

Well, the amount a liquid can be compressed is VERY small.

But I would think the limit of pressure felt by the fuel would be set by the pressure at which the injectors pop open. Probably much lower than 32,000 PSI. Just a guess though.

So I can understand the theoretical reasons why a coil of tubing would change things compared to a short length. And the largest reason might be that the tubing expands under pressure, so the volume is increased and this delays the fuel from reaching a pressure where the injector pops open.

But why would say an inch difference make much difference? Maybe it would, I am not arguing anything really, just trying to understand the specifics of why a small length difference would make a significant difference. Nothing more...

If I were to place a bet, I would bet a 5% difference in length would have no affect. BUT when I bet I always lose...so no bet here.

FWIW, the Google links that I found refer to friction within the length of tubing (longer tubing yielding marginally higher friction, thus tubes of differing lengths result in varying friction). I would think that a marginal difference in inertia based on the amount of fluid in the tube might also contribute to causing a difference. It appears these small differences are enough to cause problems.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Well, the amount a liquid can be compressed is VERY small.

But I would think the limit of pressure felt by the fuel would be set by the pressure at which the injectors pop open. Probably much lower than 32,000 PSI. Just a guess though.

So I can understand the theoretical reasons why a coil of tubing would change things compared to a short length. And the largest reason might be that the tubing expands under pressure, so the volume is increased and this delays the fuel from reaching a pressure where the injector pops open.

But why would say an inch difference make much difference? Maybe it would, I am not arguing anything really, just trying to understand the specifics of why a small length difference would make a significant difference. Nothing more...

If I were to place a bet, I would bet a 5% difference in length would have no affect. BUT when I bet I always lose...so no bet here.

I am no diesel engine expert but as I understand it the issue is not compression of (incompressible) fuel. Its the propagation time of the pressure wave. That wave travels at the speed of sound (in diesel) so you want the lines to all be the same length.

Most if not all of that goes out the window with common rail.....

Dan

 

[Henro]

FWIW, the Google links that I found refer to friction within the length of tubing (longer tubing yielding marginally higher friction, thus tubes of differing lengths result in varying friction). I would think that a marginal difference in inertia based on the amount of fluid in the tube might also contribute to causing a difference. It appears these small differences are enough to cause problems.

No doubt about that. Also the shape of the tubing can make a difference. More bends, more resistance to flow, and more delay I would expect. That would probably be a much greater worry than length, if the tubing was not bent to match the original tubing.

But I keep wondering how much a 5 percent difference in length would affect fuel delivery timing...

I guess a second question might be, what effect would be experienced? I suppose fuel delivery would be delayed. Would this result in poor combustion and less power being developed by a given cylinder?

 

[TheOldHokie]

No doubt about that. Also the shape of the tubing can make a difference. More bends, more resistance to flow, and more delay I would expect. That would probably be a much greater worry than length, if the tubing was not bent to match the original tubing.

But I keep wondering how much a 5 percent difference in length would affect fuel delivery timing...

I guess a second question might be, what effect would be experienced? I suppose fuel delivery would be delayed. Would this result in poor combustion and less power being developed by a given cylinder?

Like I said above ,- my understanding is its not the velocity of the fluud. Its the time it takes for the oressure wave to get to the injector. The pressure wave is traveling at ~1325 m/sec which is orders of magnitude faster than the fluid flow. Using that number you should be able to compute the number of degrees of crankshaft sweep assiciated with a one mm change in length. Clearly that number also varies with engine speed which is one of the problems with mechanical injectors.

Dan

 

[Mark_BX25D]

The pressure wave is traveling ar 1320 m/sec

That means it's traveling at 1.32 meters per millisecond.

That means an error of 1.32 meters in the length of the tubing would result in a timing error of 1 millisecond.

That means an error of 13.2 centimeters would result in a timing error of 1/10 of one millisecond.

I would think a careful DIYer could probably manage to keep it under a 1.32 centimeter error margin, which would give a timing error of 1/100 of a millisecond.

That being the case, if the speed of the pressure wave is the critical factor, the timing is not a problem.

The next problem to solve is choosing some tubing. You need to know the pressure of the injection system and then compare that to brake line of the same size. I would imagine that the size would have to be identical. It's sure the safe bet, anyway.

I found here that NiCopp 3/16 can have a working pressure of 4500 PSI and a burst pressure of 17,900 PSI.

Steel or stainless steel should beat that by a bit, I'm guessing, but I was not able to track down any solid numbers.

So if those pressure numbers work out, you have a solution.

Now the problem of flaring. For me, I have never been able to use one of those hand flaring tools successfully. I know many can do great work with them, but I have never gotten the hang of it.

So, when I had a large project to do about 10 years ago, I bought a Mastercool hydraulic flaring tool kit for right around $300, and it saved me that much and more in buying lines. That thing is a BREEZE to use, and gets a perfect flare every time.

I see that that particular model is discontinued now, but I'm sure they have similar. I also see that Eastwood has a similar kit for $360, plus a few Mastercool kits.

They also have line bending tools of various kinds.

If it were me, I'd roll my own without a second thought.

 

[TheOldHokie]

That means it's traveling at 1.32 meters per millisecond.

That means an error of 1.32 meters in the length of the tubing would result in a timing error of 1 millisecond.

That means an error of 13.2 centimeters would result in a timing error of 1/10 of one millisecond.

I would think a careful DIYer could probably manage to keep it under a 1.32 centimeter error margin, which would give a timing error of 1/100 of a millisecond.

That being the case, if the speed of the pressure wave is the critical factor, the timing is not a problem.

The next problem to solve is choosing some tubing. You need to know the pressure of the injection system and then compare that to brake line of the same size. I would imagine that the size would have to be identical. It's sure the safe bet, anyway.

I found here that NiCopp 3/16 can have a working pressure of 4500 PSI and a burst pressure of 17,900 PSI.

Steel or stainless steel should beat that by a bit, I'm guessing, but I was not able to track down any solid numbers.

So if those pressure numbers work out, you have a solution.

Now the problem of flaring. For me, I have never been able to use one of those hand flaring tools successfully. I know many can do great work with them, but I have never gotten the hang of it.

So, when I had a large project to do about 10 years ago, I bought a Mastercool hydraulic flaring tool kit for right around $300, and it saved me that much and more in buying lines. That thing is a BREEZE to use, and gets a perfect flare every time.

I see that that particular model is discontinued now, but I'm sure they have similar. I also see that Eastwood has a similar kit for $360, plus a few Mastercool kits.

They also have line bending tools of various kinds.

If it were me, I'd roll my own without a second thought.

Thats the basic arithmetic. So how many degrees of rotation does a crankshaft turning at 2000 RPM sweep in a millisecond? Thats the ignition timing change per unit of tubing length. I think this may be a microsecond rather than millisecond event.

Dan

 

[Mark_BX25D]

So how many degrees of rotation does a crankshaft turning at 2000 RPM sweep in a millisecond? Thats the ignition timing change per unit of tubing length. I think this may be a microsecond rather than millisecond event.

That ah dunno. It's too late tonight to do the math. That's trig, and that makes me have to think!

Anyway, I was going by what NIW posted:

Injector timing is within a milli second when at full RPM's.

If that number is accurate, AND if the pressure wave speed is the critical factor in the timing, then DIY tubing will be well within the parameters.