Diesel fuel

[GeoHorn]

Marine-MP… I have a diesel compactor/roller I bought surplus and the seller claimed to have recently put a new battery in it. I started and ran Great…for a week….then became hard to start. (slow turn-over)
I raised the hood to watch it turn over and saw a slight wisp of smoke leave the starter. A-Ha! FOUND the problem… or so I thought.
Took the starter to a trusted starter/generator rebuilder who did his magic on the starter (new brushes, bearings..whatever)… took it home and reinstalled it. (THAT is a booger to do ..it’s on a 4239 JD engine….where the starter sits beneath the exhaust manifold but in a compactor you can only reach it from ABOVE.)

No change. Still won’t turn over. Checked batt voltage… almost 13 volts. Pulled cables and cleaned the ends. Cleaned the ground-clamps. Reinstalled. Slow turn-over. (runs up against compression and won’t turn over any further.)

Took the rebuilt starter off and back to the overhaul shop. The man said it was a STRONG starter…but changed out the piggy-back solenoid anyway. Back to the house and that damn re-installation nightmare again.

Still…no turn-over.

Took the battery to WalMart…they tested it “GOOD”.

On the way home I stopped at NAPA. They tested the battery….declared it had “13 volts” and therefore a bad battery.

“B.S.”, I said…. “13 volts is Good!”

No, the guy says…it’s a 12 volt battery….13 is too much. I’ve got a new replacement in that size for $140.

At that point I figured I had an idiot salesman on my hands and took my battery back and left.
Passing an Auto-zone on the way home I stopped-in. They had the identical battery (Continental Heavy Duty) on sale for $100. Out of frustration,… I bought it and left my old one with them for trade-in.

Took the new battery home, installed it…and that engine has turned-over just fine and immediately started (without EVER using Glo-Plugs even in winter) …for the last 2-1/2 years on that AutoZone battery.

Moral: A battery can test good at one place. It can be misunderstood at another. It can have good voltage …but have LOW CAPACITY due to a shorted cell. This can all be very frustrating…and you can MISTAKE the problem to be associated with something ELSE you’ve recently suffered…. and that leads you down the wrong path.

Sometimes…it’s just a bad battery and a new one FIXES THE PROBLEM.

(I’ve even JUMPERED a bad battery and it still failed to start because the shorted cell still will not pass-thru the good jumper-battery’s voltage.)

Try a new battery.

Hope this helps.

 

[marine-mp]

Marine-mp, if you get real bored and need a project, I have a G4200 with mower deck I haven't done anything to for 2 years. I have the engine running and needed to change out the water pump. Purchased new blades and rollers for the deck. Moved it to the back about time we got the covid crap. Kind of lost interest!

D2cat, I can sympathize with that, no doubt!!! I bought my 5200 thru Hi—Bid for $550. I was the onliest bidder. A large dealership up in Kentucky had it. When my wife and I went up to get it, the salesman told me I could unhook the deck and tho it in the scrap pile on the way out, if I wanted. I told him it WOULD cut grass again and he laughed an said-yeah right!! Well, it took 1 year, off an on, but it’s cutting grass!! I made a huge template and cut the entire top off of it and rebuilt it. No thanks, I’m not THAT bored!! But, it is doable with a buzzbox and lots of manipulation!! Take care. Semper-fi & This We’ll Defend, Mike

 

[marine-mp]

Marine-MP… I have a diesel compactor/roller I bought surplus and the seller claimed to have recently put a new battery in it. I started and ran Great…for a week….then became hard to start. (slow turn-over)
I raised the hood to watch it turn over and saw a slight wisp of smoke leave the starter. A-Ha! FOUND the problem… or so I thought.
Took the starter to a trusted starter/generator rebuilder who did his magic on the starter (new brushes, bearings..whatever)… took it home and reinstalled it. (THAT is a booger to do ..it’s on a 4239 JD engine….where the starter sits beneath the exhaust manifold but in a compactor you can only reach it from ABOVE.)

No change. Still won’t turn over. Checked batt voltage… almost 13 volts. Pulled cables and cleaned the ends. Cleaned the ground-clamps. Reinstalled. Slow turn-over. (runs up against compression and won’t turn over any further.)

Took the rebuilt starter off and back to the overhaul shop. The man said it was a STRONG starter…but changed out the piggy-back solenoid anyway. Back to the house and that damn re-installation nightmare again.

Still…no turn-over.

Took the battery to WalMart…they tested it “GOOD”.

On the way home I stopped at NAPA. They tested the battery….declared it had “13 volts” and therefore a bad battery.

“B.S.”, I said…. “13 volts is Good!”

No, the guy says…it’s a 12 volt battery….13 is too much. I’ve got a new replacement in that size for $140.

At that point I figured I had an idiot salesman on my hands and took my battery back and left.
Passing an Auto-zone on the way home I stopped-in. They had the identical battery (Continental Heavy Duty) on sale for $100. Out of frustration,… I bought it and left my old one with them for trade-in.

Took the new battery home, installed it…and that engine has turned-over just fine and immediately started (without EVER using Glo-Plugs even in winter) …for the last 2-1/2 years on that AutoZone battery.

Moral: A battery can test good at one place. It can be misunderstood at another. It can have good voltage …but have LOW CAPACITY due to a shorted cell. This can all be very frustrating…and you can MISTAKE the problem to be associated with something ELSE you’ve recently suffered…. and that leads you down the wrong path.

Sometimes…it’s just a bad battery and a new one FIXES THE PROBLEM.

(I’ve even JUMPERED a bad battery and it still failed to start because the shorted cell still will not pass-thru the good jumper-battery’s voltage.)

Try a new battery.

Hope this helps.

GeoHorn, I’ll have that checked also. It sounds too EZ, but I hope it’s something that simple!!!! Take care. Semper-fi & This We’ll Defend, Mike

 

[skeets]

Marine MP ever been around a red line brig ?

 

[Pau7220]

Sometimes…it’s just a bad battery

One of the hardest things to diagnose (or catch in the act) is an intermittent open in a battery. I had more than one in the shop where a few minutes of dome lights would cause the open… right down to 5v. Throw the charger on it for a few minutes, then open would close up then load testing would be fine. Rare but quite the head scratcher. Call the customer to tell them the situation and of course they “never had a problem with it.”
You really have to keep in mind to use caution when working around batteries. This type of situation is extremely dangerous and is a candidate for an explosion caused by an internal spark.

 

[D2Cat]

I had the starter on my Ditch Witch R40 rebuilt and a few months later had trouble with it not starting. I had been setting for a while so I check a couple of things including battery under load, then started jumping to conclusions. I took the starter back to the repair shop and he put it in his test clamp and it was working perfectly.

Took it back home and installed it. No start. I eventually discovered the clamp on one of the battery post was split on the back bottom side. The lead just separated, but the clamp bolt was still in place.

I felt pretty silly driving a total of about 55 miles, a couple of hours messing around, missing the work I was intending to do, for a battery cable.

 

[Dieseldonato]

Marine-MP… I have a diesel compactor/roller I bought surplus and the seller claimed to have recently put a new battery in it. I started and ran Great…for a week….then became hard to start. (slow turn-over)
I raised the hood to watch it turn over and saw a slight wisp of smoke leave the starter. A-Ha! FOUND the problem… or so I thought.
Took the starter to a trusted starter/generator rebuilder who did his magic on the starter (new brushes, bearings..whatever)… took it home and reinstalled it. (THAT is a booger to do ..it’s on a 4239 JD engine….where the starter sits beneath the exhaust manifold but in a compactor you can only reach it from ABOVE.)

No change. Still won’t turn over. Checked batt voltage… almost 13 volts. Pulled cables and cleaned the ends. Cleaned the ground-clamps. Reinstalled. Slow turn-over. (runs up against compression and won’t turn over any further.)

Took the rebuilt starter off and back to the overhaul shop. The man said it was a STRONG starter…but changed out the piggy-back solenoid anyway. Back to the house and that damn re-installation nightmare again.

Still…no turn-over.

Took the battery to WalMart…they tested it “GOOD”.

On the way home I stopped at NAPA. They tested the battery….declared it had “13 volts” and therefore a bad battery.

“B.S.”, I said…. “13 volts is Good!”

No, the guy says…it’s a 12 volt battery….13 is too much. I’ve got a new replacement in that size for $140.

At that point I figured I had an idiot salesman on my hands and took my battery back and left.
Passing an Auto-zone on the way home I stopped-in. They had the identical battery (Continental Heavy Duty) on sale for $100. Out of frustration,… I bought it and left my old one with them for trade-in.

Took the new battery home, installed it…and that engine has turned-over just fine and immediately started (without EVER using Glo-Plugs even in winter) …for the last 2-1/2 years on that AutoZone battery.

Moral: A battery can test good at one place. It can be misunderstood at another. It can have good voltage …but have LOW CAPACITY due to a shorted cell. This can all be very frustrating…and you can MISTAKE the problem to be associated with something ELSE you’ve recently suffered…. and that leads you down the wrong path.

Sometimes…it’s just a bad battery and a new one FIXES THE PROBLEM.

(I’ve even JUMPERED a bad battery and it still failed to start because the shorted cell still will not pass-thru the good jumper-battery’s voltage.)

Try a new battery.

Hope this helps.

A proper load test would have shown a weak cell right away. I'm a big fan of modern electronics to a point, can't load test anything with out hooking up a load tester of some sort....

 

[07wingnut]

A proper load test would have shown a weak cell right away. I'm a big fan of modern electronics to a point, can't load test anything with out hooking up a load tester of some sort....

I would thing the easiest and best load tester is the starter trying to turn over the engine. Put a meter across the battery posts (not the cable ends) and watch the voltage while cranking. If it drops, bad, or discharged battery, if it doesn't, repeat with meter across the battery terminals. If the voltage drops, bad connection to the battery.

 

[marine-mp]

Well well, many replies on the battry problems pointing to the culprit. I hope thats the problem. Tomorrow it’s down to the wire on connections, cleaning and wire-brushing connections, to start. Thank you all so much. Seems like old friends on this forum. Awesome.
Skeets, yes, I am quite familiar with the “red line brig”. I was a “cross country chaser” stationed out of Philadelphia Naval Brig in the mid seventies. We’d bring plane loads of prisoners to Cherry Point, NC headed to Lejuene or to the Great Lakes. Philly was the east coast muster point for all military prisoners with dispersal from there. It was a red line brig for indoctrination. Some interesting stories to tell. Not proud of some things that happened then, but it was a different place and time. No crying rooms back then.
Anyways, take care and keep the dirty side down!! Semper-fi & This We’ll Defend, Mike

 

[GeoHorn]

A proper load test would have shown a weak cell right away. I'm a big fan of modern electronics to a point, can't load test anything with out hooking up a load tester of some sort....

WalMart did the Load Test on that battery and proclaimed it “good”.

 

[GeoHorn]

WalMart did the Load Test on that battery and proclaimed it “good”.

MP… I flew for a year with a Marine Aviator (hard-headed and a damn fine fellow) whose favorite slogan was “Good Night, Chesty Puller!”

 

[marine-mp]

MP… I flew for a year with a Marine Aviator (hard-headed and a damn fine fellow) whose favorite slogan was “Good Night, Chesty Puller!”

GeoHorn, Ah yes!!! My bulldog’s name is “Chesty”, for short. “The enemy has us surrounded…..they won’t get away this time”. Col. Chesty Puller, Koto-ri-Korea
Take care. Semper-fi & This We’ll Defend, Mike

 

[Dieseldonato]

WalMart did the Load Test on that battery and proclaimed it “good”.

With a carbon pile tester? Most places have an electronic tester that doesn't load the battery. Goes off of internal resistance or something. Used to get a lot of calls about generators that wouldn't start. Normally it was a bad battery. As the engine dealer, the generator dealer would be out first and use one of the new electronic testers. I kept an old snap on carbon pile tester in the truck. They are great for many things, but load testing batteries and alternators is where they shine. If it's got a weak cell or short you'll never get the amp draw ou should.
Not saying anyone tested it wrong just don't see many places actually load testing them like we used to.

 

[Flintknapper]

With a carbon pile tester? Most places have an electronic tester that doesn't load the battery. Goes off of internal resistance or something. Used to get a lot of calls about generators that wouldn't start. Normally it was a bad battery. As the engine dealer, the generator dealer would be out first and use one of the new electronic testers. I kept an old snap on carbon pile tester in the truck. They are great for many things, but load testing batteries and alternators is where they shine. If it's got a weak cell or short you'll never get the amp draw ou should.
Not saying anyone tested it wrong just don't see many places actually load testing them like we used to.

Yep, good tool to have. Not very expensive and can save you from going down a lot of rabbit holes.

 

[GeoHorn]

With a carbon pile tester? Most places have an electronic tester that doesn't load the battery. Goes off of internal resistance or something. Used to get a lot of calls about generators that wouldn't start. Normally it was a bad battery. As the engine dealer, the generator dealer would be out first and use one of the new electronic testers. I kept an old snap on carbon pile tester in the truck. They are great for many things, but load testing batteries and alternators is where they shine. If it's got a weak cell or short you'll never get the amp draw ou should.
Not saying anyone tested it wrong just don't see many places actually load testing them like we used to.

It was a tester which printed out a result on heat-sensitive paper roll…so I’m presuming it was an “electronic” tester such as you mentioned. Don’t know if they’re not as reliable or as stringent as the old carbon-piles were… But that is also the same type NAPA used, and NAPA is fairly competent in most things they do. (That NAPA guy had an anger-management problem as demonstrated in that exchange. The battery was in the back of my truck, and with a Huge Sigh… he went to the back-room, laboriously carried it out to my truck…Threw the alligator-clips onto the terminals…and before I could follow closely enough to see the actual “load test” …he unclipped it an announced that 13 volts made it a “bad” battery…and hauled the tester back into the store.
I tried to clarify why he thought 13v was ”bad” …and he made the comment about it being “too much voltage = bad battery”…. so hoping to get him to print out the test results (as I knew that tester was capable)… I asked him what the load-test readout was…. as I had wanted to see that result.
He became agitated, virtually shouted …as he grabbed the tester to take back out to my truck… “I’ll DO IT AGAIN SINCE YOU‘RE SAYING I’M A LIAR!”



(I have shopped that particular NAPA for 30+ years and it had recently changed franchisee… and this guy was obviously a new employeel)

I stopped him and said, “I’ll tell you what … Just never mind.”.…. and walked past him out the door…and headed to AutoZone. After his outburst I decided I’d stop shopping at our local NAPA until he was no longer working there. (He didn’t last a month.)

Anyway, a new battery solved the problem.

A simple “load test” of a battery is to turn on all the lights/headlights of a vehicle…wait 30 seconds…then blow the horn (if it has one) too see if it is loud/clear… and attempt a start. A healthy battery should have no problem passing that test.

 

[marine-mp]

Well, here it is, 16:45 in the atternoon and I started this morning. I pulled the battry terminals, cleaned them, and hooked it back up. Tried to start it, and it still labored. Next, cleaned the starter connections and the motor-to-chassis ground connection. Same thing, laboring to turn over.
I then took the battry out, took the starter off and down to the parts store. Battry tests good on a load. He hooks up the starter to test it and says there’s definitely something wrong with it. Its dragging and his gauge is showing a problem with the armature.
He’s gonna rebuilt it an I’ll have it Wednesday. I sure do appreciate all the help from y’all here on the forum. I’d never have thot it to be a failing starter. But many of yuns suspected it or the battry. Thank you all again. Yuns rock the house, no doubt!! Semper-fi & This We’ll Defend, Mike

 

[ACDII]

I have that Same Snap on tester. It cooks pretty good too. I have gone through more batteries in the last year than all years combined. First my wifes Focus, just died, no losing voltage needing a charge, nope, just died, after 5 years.

Then the AGM in my 2018 F150 got a bad cell. Was able to keep it going for a while, it started dropping a cell before the Focus died, so I knew it was on the way out, and no warranty even though 3 years old and Motorcraft replacement is 5 years, OEM batteries are covered under the vehicle warranty, not the battery warranty, and being its a $200 battery I nursed it as long as I could, then it got cold out and it wouldn't keep its charge more than a day or two and finally had to be replaced.

THEN the batteries in the F350 decided to crap the bed, Both would not hold a charge for more than a day, and THOSE had to be replaced. Now I have replace 4 batteries. I thought, ok, everything has new batts so I should be good. Nope, Wrong, the battery on the John Deere X500 crapped the bed, wouldn't hold a charge more than a day. There went another $130.

Had to have spent at least a grand on batteries the past 12 months alone. I tried doing reconditioning, but once a cell drops, there pretty much is no comeback for it. I have yet to check the deep cycle in the RV, hoping since it was fully charged and isolated, that it still has it's charge and be good for a few more seasons, unlike the original that the dealer killed by leaving the new 12v reefer running that they just replaced and putting it in storage until I could pick it up. Completely killed it, no comeback from that dead of deads.

Oh yeah, forgot, that was battery #6 last year.

 

[D2Cat]

Well, here it is, 16:45 in the atternoon and I started this morning. I pulled the battry terminals, cleaned them, and hooked it back up. Tried to start it, and it still labored. Next, cleaned the starter connections and the motor-to-chassis ground connection. Same thing, laboring to turn over.
I then took the battry out, took the starter off and down to the parts store. Battry tests good on a load. He hooks up the starter to test it and says there’s definitely something wrong with it. Its dragging and his gauge is showing a problem with the armature.
He’s gonna rebuilt it an I’ll have it Wednesday. I sure do appreciate all the help from y’all here on the forum. I’d never have thot it to be a failing starter. But many of yuns suspected it or the battry. Thank you all again. Yuns rock the house, no doubt!! Semper-fi & This We’ll Defend, Mike

Good you got to the end of the problem. Nice that you got that starter rebuilt. I prefer that to an online hope it fits and works model.

 

[marine-mp]

D2Cat, I know. I was dreading that. Fortunately, we have S&L AutoParts here in Murphy, NC. No relationship to to it or no business interest either. He just does a fantastic job on rebuilding starters, alternators, generators and radiators. He took a quick look at the starter and surmised it to be the culprit!! Nice. Anyways, we should be slaying grass with it in a Take care.. Semper-fi & This We’ll Defend, Mike

 

[Mark_BX25D]

Nice that you got that starter rebuilt. I prefer that to an online hope it fits and works model.

Yep, every time!