Diesel fuel

[marine-mp]

Hello the forum….A month ago, I posted about putting gas instead of diesel in my Kubota G5200H. The tank was about 1/2 full and another 1/2 of gasoline. It ran for a short while and died. I did as commanded by the great folk on Orangetalks…..bowl filter, in-line filter, drain tank and lines. I re-filled the tank with off-road diesel and it fired right off. I used it yesterday to mow and it was doing a great job!! Success!! Until I turned it off for a hot minute. Something to drink. When I went to start it, it sounded like my old Chevy Nomad wagon with the 283ci and 327 hi-po heads!!
Like each cylinder was pumping 50 barrels of oil!! (That might be a good thing!!) But, good battery, engine struggling to spin up.
I’ve heard of vapor-lock, but don’t really know how it applies here, of if it even does. Could it be the off-road diesel instead of on- road diesel?? What’s the difference between the two diesel fuels?? I waited several hours and it started?? The outside temperature at the time was about 94 degrees, but the engine temperature was showing slightly above halfway on the gauge. Any ideas about what happened here?? Sorry for the long rant, I just needed to give all the situation. I’m pretty handicapped when it comes to the diesel engine. I do really good with pictures though!!! Any help understanding what happened would truly be appreciated. Thank you kindly. Semper-fi & This We’ll Defend, Mike

 

[GreensvilleJay]

struggling to spin .... it does have ENGINE oil in it ?? Wasn't HOT(temp ??)

off-road diesel is dyed, so never,ever get caught driving your ride with it ! You'll be in for a lengthy audit from the taxman...

 

[marine-mp]

struggling to spin .... it does have ENGINE oil in it ?? Wasn't HOT(temp ??)

off-road diesel is dyed, so never,ever get caught driving your ride with it ! You'll be in for a lengthy audit from the taxman...

GreensvilleJay, Yup, it has plenty of oil and the temp gauge was reading ok. I would guess you can use off-road-diesel for your yard mowing??? Thanks for the reply. Semper-fi & This We’ll Defend, Mike

 

[Fordtech86]

Off road diesel and highway fuel are exactly the same fuel, off road is just dyed as Jay mentioned.

Diesel Fuel Standards and Rulemakings | US EPA

This page lists the regulations, rules and fact sheets on highway diesel and nonroad diesel.

www.epa.gov

 

[loggin]

Hello the forum….A month ago, I posted about putting gas instead of diesel in my Kubota G5200H. The tank was about 1/2 full and another 1/2 of gasoline. It ran for a short while and died. I did as commanded by the great folk on Orangetalks…..bowl filter, in-line filter, drain tank and lines. I re-filled the tank with off-road diesel and it fired right off. I used it yesterday to mow and it was doing a great job!! Success!! Until I turned it off for a hot minute. Something to drink. When I went to start it, it sounded like my old Chevy Nomad wagon with the 283ci and 327 hi-po heads!!
Like each cylinder was pumping 50 barrels of oil!! (That might be a good thing!!) But, good battery, engine struggling to spin up.
I’ve heard of vapor-lock, but don’t really know how it applies here, of if it even does. Could it be the off-road diesel instead of on- road diesel?? What’s the difference between the two diesel fuels?? I waited several hours and it started?? The outside temperature at the time was about 94 degrees, but the engine temperature was showing slightly above halfway on the gauge. Any ideas about what happened here?? Sorry for the long rant, I just needed to give all the situation. I’m pretty handicapped when it comes to the diesel engine. I do really good with pictures though!!! Any help understanding what happened would truly be appreciated. Thank you kindly. Semper-fi & This We’ll Defend, Mike

Hard to say over the internet but you may have done some damage to the injector pump because of lack of lubrication from the diluted diesel fuel.

 

[RCW]

Mike - thank you for your service.

When you say each cylinder is pumping oil, do you mean you were getting a lot of black slobber out the exhaust?

First thought is the gasoline may have dislodged some of the deposits from the fuel system.

Has the engine caught up and run normal since?

Did you have any smoke when this was happening?

What color was the smoke?

 

[ACDII]

Did you completely flush the fuel system? Sounds like residual gas is still in the mix, and gas does not compress, it goes off prematurely and can make it run as you described. If it continues to do this, there could be injector damage or pump damage, but fingers crossed, only a one time thing.

 

[Russell King]

Has it ever had this symptom before?

Sounds like the engine was dragging the starter speed down when it was “hot”.
Verify the engine temperature with another sensor like a infrared thermometer or a thermometer in the radiator fluid after you turn the tractor off and carefully remove the cap ( or run it without the cap?)

It may be the starter motor needs to be repaired or replaced? Remove and test?

 

[marine-mp]

Hey Guy’s, been otta-pocket all day an jus now seeing your great replies. Y’all rock, no doubt.
Fordtech86-thank you for the off road diesel intel. Great stuff.
RCW-no, it wasn’t pumping oil. A bad analogy on my part. It sounded like it was pumping 50 barrels of oil with each cylinder!! The motor ran fantastic after cleaning the entire system of my gasoline SNAFU!! Tank and lines all drained completely. I even wiped the inside of the tank dry. Put new filters on and it spun right up and ran like a new one.
I stated in my original post that I turned the motor off to get a drink, but on reflection, I left the motor running and turned off the blades. Got my drink, returned to mower and reduced throttle to 1/2 an engaged blades, and that’s when the motor stalled and wouldn’t restart. When I tried to restart it, thats when it really struggled to spin over. Like it had a load on it. I thot maybe I left the blade handle engaged, and the starter couldn’t turn it over. Nope, handle was off. The engine was turning over, and not the sound of a dying battery. The starter was struggling to turn the engine over. I towed it back to the garage, let it set for several hours, thinking vapor lock, an put the charger on it. Later, I tried starting it, and eventually it did start, but the starter was still struggling to spin it. After starting, it sounded great. This morning, I tried it again, after a all-night trickle charge, and wouldn’t spin fast enough to start. Not that the battry wasn’t fully charged, it just still sounded like the cylinders had a ton of weight on them??
RussellKing, I will get the starter checked, even though it sounds like it’s doing it job. Thanks.
Just a bit frustrated as this 3 cylinder has been running great. It a restoration in memory of my Dad, but I never had to touch the motor!! Thanks again for the replies. Semper-fi & This We’ll Defend, Mike

 

[number two]

Off road diesel and highway fuel are exactly the same fuel, off road is just dyed as Jay mentioned.

View attachment 81966

Diesel Fuel Standards and Rulemakings | US EPA

This page lists the regulations, rules and fact sheets on highway diesel and nonroad diesel.

www.epa.gov

Finally,somebody posts the exact truth about the progression of diesel fuel!

 

[Dieseldonato]

Typically it's not the end of the world for a mechanical diesel to get gas mixed in with it. It can cause damage to several things, but typically with the ratio you claimed to have mixed, it should have been fine. No I have seen broken rings, cracked pistons and occasionally a buggered up pump but that wasn't the norm. Common rail then all bets are off, and it typically trashes the entire high pressure side of the fuel system. Unfortunately seen that a few times.
I'd personally give it a decent once over, pump the cylinders for compression and get a base line of where your at.
Best case were over thinking this and your starter is taking a crap, or you have a bad battery. Worse case something got buggered internally.

 

[marine-mp]

Dieseldonato, thanks for the intel. I’ll take it one-step-at-atime an try to find the culprit!! Uplifting words on the bright side!! Thank you kindly. Semper-fi & This We’ll Defend, Mike

 

[ACDII]

Can always pull the glow plugs out, shut off the fuel and see if it cranks over easily with no compression in the cylinders. If it still struggles, then you have a pretty good idea the starter is bad.

 

[D2Cat]

First thing I'd do is check the battery post and cables at each end. Be sure they are clean and tight. The usual area of failure is the ground cable where it bolts to the tractor frame. When these are clean and secure and still no satisfaction, go to the battery for a load test, then if that's good starter.

 

[Dieseldonato]

First thing I'd do is check the battery post and cables at each end. Be sure they are clean and tight. The usual area of failure is the ground cable where it bolts to the tractor frame. When these are clean and secure and still no satisfaction, go to the battery for a load test, then if that's good starter.

You know, I was just thinking how odd it is the ground cable doesn't go straight to one of the starter bolts, or a lug in the starter, it's pretty common on most equipment and save a lot of bs associated with frame mounted grounds.

 

[D2Cat]

Dieseldonato, probably a cost issue. A bean counter makes those decisions and has to do with dollars not practicality or common sense.

I've had a engine I couldn't figure out not starting and I ended up removing the starter and using a wire brush to clean the surface between the face of the starter and the engine. That engine was taken off of a reefer truck and had set cover with a tarp for a few years before I purchased it.

 

[Henro]

Measure the voltage between the battery connection at the starter and the starter case, when you try to start the engine.

It should be close to battery voltage. If not, you have a wiring issue somewhere.

There are different voltage measurements you can take to narrow the issue down, if you find the voltage between the starter 12 volt terminal, and the case, when starting, is lower than expected. But one step at a time...

 

[marine-mp]

Thank you all for the replies. It gives me someplace to start and a semblance of order to this whole thing. I will start on it tomorrow and hopefully have a answer to the puzzle!! As I stated before, I am handicapped as far as Diesel engines go, and my electrical diagnostic skills are sorely lacking. Back in the day, plug-points-an condenser was as about as difficult as it got!! Anyways, being retired, every day is Saturday so time is my friend!’
As an aside, I am a retired machinist as well as retired military, and have a small machine shop downstairs. My Dad owned a machine shop and taught me the skill as I was growing in my formative years. Mine is nothing fancy, just the basics. Lathe, mill and some hand tools. If any of you need some special something made that can no longer be bought, or need some small stuff modified, etc , give me a shout out. I’m not advertising or sech, most all my jobs have these days are for friends or family. No charges. You arrange the shipping and return and we’ll be good. Mods, If this isn’t allowed on the forum, let me know and yuns or I can delete it. It’s just my way of thanking y’all for the kind gestures of help. Take care. Semper-fi & This We’ll Defend, Mike

 

[Henro]

Thank you all for the replies. It gives me someplace to start and a semblance of order to this whole thing. I will start on it tomorrow and hopefully have a answer to the puzzle!! As I stated before, I am handicapped as far as Diesel engines go, and my electrical diagnostic skills are sorely lacking. Back in the day, plug-points-an condenser was as about as difficult as it got!! Anyways, being retired, every day is Saturday so time is my friend!’
As an aside, I am a retired machinist as well as retired military, and have a small machine shop downstairs. My Dad owned a machine shop and taught me the skill as I was growing in my formative years. Mine is nothing fancy, just the basics. Lathe, mill and some hand tools. If any of you need some special something made that can no longer be bought, or need some small stuff modified, etc , give me a shout out. I’m not advertising or sech, most all my jobs have these days are for friends or family. No charges. You arrange the shipping and return and we’ll be good. Mods, If this isn’t allowed on the forum, let me know and yuns or I can delete it. It’s just my way of thanking y’all for the kind gestures of help. Take care. Semper-fi & This We’ll Defend, Mike

Very kind of you to offer to help others!

 

[D2Cat]

Marine-mp, if you get real bored and need a project, I have a G4200 with mower deck I haven't done anything to for 2 years. I have the engine running and needed to change out the water pump. Purchased new blades and rollers for the deck. Moved it to the back about time we got the covid crap. Kind of lost interest!