detent spring pressure for B219 loader control valve?

[nav0239]

The detent balls and spring on my B219 control valve rusted real bad. I could not find replacement and want to make it work somehow.

The rust balls has a dia of ~3.8mm. Nowhere to see the spring. So I bought some 4mm stainless balls and plan to drill the hole to suit if needed. The only thing I am not sure is what spring to get.

I wonder if someone knows how much compression force the detent spring has roughly, like 1lb? 8 oz? Or is it a very hard spring or a soft one. I probably have to experiment to get it work but want to know where to start.

Better if someone knows a source for the replacement parts.

 

[ShaunBlake]

That's a bummer! And a puzzle: how could rust grow in that environment?

My second thought was to offer you my loader control block -- I've just gotten a 4-spool valve to replace mine -- but I haven't gotten my system set up and working yet, so that would be premature.

My next thought is to get a control block (I like West Kentucky Tractor Parts and Mid-South Salvage, Inc. but you might find sources for old or used parts closer to you) and replace yours. Then you can do whatever rebuilding you care to on your control block without keeping from using the tractor.

Please keep us posted on your progress!

Oh, and to keep you out of trouble with the tractorporn Nazis (I'm sure I don't need to point them out to you!) who might snarl at you, "Without pics, it didn't happen!", you might include pics of your work.

 

[Lil Foot]

And a puzzle: how could rust grow in that environment?

The cap that contains the detent assembly is outside the hydraulic oil portion of the valve & vented to the outside with a porous bronze vent. In my case, that vent had been painted over when they painted the valve, trapping moisture in side for years. Here is a link to a past discussion, and no, I still haven't fixed mine yet, I just have too many higher priorities.
http://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12971&highlight=b219+valve

 

[nav0239]

Thanks for the help.

The tractor is usable now. It is just that I have to be careful when pushing the control level forward without putting it into the float position. Sometime I have to move it around a bit to make it do what I want.

The cause of rust is the similar as Lil Foot's: I don't see a venting hole at all on the cap. Yes, I will drill a hole on the cap before I am done with it to prevent future rust.

So any hint on the spring pressure? I will post the result when I have it fixed.

 

[Lil Foot]

I have to be careful when pushing the control level forward without putting it into the float position.

I made a sort of u-shaped spacer out of plastic that snaps on the spool between the valve body & the chain linkage that allows me to push the lever all the way forward against a hard stop without going into float mode. I can take a pic & get some measurements, but it will take about a week to do that & get back here where I can post. (tractor not here)
I have no clue on the spring pressure, my spring was totally gone, was planning to just wing it & experiment when I get around to fixing mine.
I did take a shot at putting it back together early on, but mine had enough metal missing from the spring hole & detent area of the cap that the detent would not hold with a light spring, or would push the balls out of position with a heavy spring. (that would lock up the whole mess, creating another problem)
My plan is to make two hollow pins with a ball end instead of the balls, but I just haven't had time.

 

[nav0239]

You have a neat idea there to have it working as long as float is not needed. Maybe I will do the same for now until I find the right spring.

For your problem there, have you thought about trying to use slightly larger balls? Hollow pins will have to slide over the ridge instead of rolling over it.

 

[Lil Foot]

I may still go that route; if I use the pins, they will be hardened & polished like a mirror, so they won't have much friction.

 

[D2Cat]

I'm not familiar with your valve specifically, but for the spring.... measure the OD of the piece the spring fits over(to hold the detent balls under the cover piece.

Go to your local hardware store and check out their compression spring collection. The ID of the spring needs to just fit over the OD of the holder piece. Spring diameter is around .003-.004, and length will need to be cut off with your wire cutters. Spring must be short enough to fit in the end cap when put back in place. In other words compress the spring with your thumb and forefinger to see the length when totally compressed. Compare that to how much space is in the end cap. Snip off some spring and try again.

Length isn't TOO critical, just needs to fit in housing and yet have enough compression to return the spool to the far end of the valve when not being moved.

Springs are not expensive, less then a dollar each. Buy 2 or 3 for your modification. Put remaining in you spring collection!! You do have a "bone pile" don't you?

I just did this on a Nimco valve on a Massey loader.

 

[Lil Foot]

The spring we are discussing is not to return the spool, it has one that does that. This spring is in a cross-drilled hole in the end of the spool that pushes two small balls outward toward the inside of a cap on the end of the spool, outside the hydraulics. This cap has a ridge inside it which acts as a stop too keep the valve from going into float mode, or if the lever is pushed farther forward to go into float mode, this ridge provides a detent for the spring-loaded balls to grab & hold the valve in the float mode until the lever is pulled back. I'd do a drawing if I was home with my Mac, but I'm up in the mountains with only a tablet.
'

 

[Lil Foot]

Here are a couple pics of the plastic stop I use to keep my B219 from going into float mode, then I remove it & hold the lever forward when I need float. One of these days I'll get around to fixing the detent parts.

 

[X32]

very interesting, I have a B219 loader and I just rebuilt all the hydraulic cylinders but not the control valve. But the control valve seems to operate just fine but I did paint the cap that you guys are talking about I think, if everything is working currently as it should what should I do to prevent a problem in the future?

Sorry to intrude on this thread but your feedback would be very helpful. Thanks in advance kind regards

 

[nav0239]

Here are a couple pics of the plastic stop I use to keep my B219 from going into float mode, then I remove it & hold the lever forward when I need float. One of these days I'll get around to fixing the detent parts.

Neat! Is it about 1/4" thick?

 

[nav0239]

very interesting, I have a B219 loader and I just rebuilt all the hydraulic cylinders but not the control valve. But the control valve seems to operate just fine but I did paint the cap that you guys are talking about I think, if everything is working currently as it should what should I do to prevent a problem in the future?

Sorry to intrude on this thread but your feedback would be very helpful. Thanks in advance kind regards

Find the vent on the clean it? Or drill a small hole at the bottom if there is no vent hole?

 

[Lil Foot]

Sorry to intrude on this thread but your feedback would be very helpful.

what should I do to prevent a problem in the future?

No problem.
The vent on mine was a porous bronze insert in the middle of the cap end. (like an old style fuel filter)
When my neighbor's B2150 developed the same problem, we took it apart & his just needed cleaning, very little rust, so we just slathered everything in a light grease & filled the cap with it too. We figured that would keep the water out, & so far it has.

Neat! Is it about 1/4" thick?

It is .205 thick, so thinner than 1/4". (.250) But I wouldn't be surprised if that varied a little from valve to valve.

Find the vent on the clean it? Or drill a small hole at the bottom if there is no vent hole?

If there is no vent, and it's not rusty inside, I'd be temped to fill it with grease & quit there. If it's rusty, then water is getting in somehow & I'd probably drill a vent hole, clean, & fill with grease.
But if you take it apart, be prepared, the balls & spring will go flying if you're not careful when you remove the cap. On a tarp or clean garage floor, that's not too much of a problem, but if it's grass or a gravel drive, you're screwed.
Kinda a PITA to reassemble, but it's doable, especially with an extra hand or two.