dangerous bx2230 problem

[slopemower]

Hi guys,
I have a recurring problem on my BX 2230 which is quite dangerous. For the second time, while mowing a steep slope(common here on Vermont hill farms) the pin holding the knuckle joint on the 4wd driveline shaft sheared or fell out, separating the driveline and causing the loss of the front wheel drive. It would only be an annoyance on flatter ground, but has caused me to lose control on the steep ground I mow. I was lucky both times, it could have been much worse. The dealer here said they've seen it happen before. Anybody else have this problem? Is the pin supposed to fail so easily? The first time it looks like the pin worked out part way and then sheared, this afternoon when it happened the pin disappeared. I'm thinking of putting a grade 5 bolt in there instead or maybe putting some kind of collar next to the knuckle joint so the driveline shaft can't separate. Any advice?(other than "don't mow steep slopes!") Thankshttp://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif

 

[Daren Todd]

What part of vermont are you from? I'm from middlebury

 

[gpreuss]

I'd go for the grade 5 or 8 bolt, if they have one in the right size. Get it long enough that the shear is trying to cut shoulder, not thread.

 

[RumT]

If you are going to use a bolt in a shear installation, it should be a grade 0, no higher than a grade 2. A 5 or 8 will cause damage or the failure may move to the next weak point.

 

[gpreuss]

If you are going to use a bolt in a shear installation, it should be a grade 0, no higher than a grade 2. A 5 or 8 will cause damage or the failure may move to the next weak point.

He is exactly right. For some reason I was thinking it was the shift handle, not the driveline.

 

[kubotasam]

I do not think the pin he is referring to is designed to be a "shear pln". I think it is a pin that keeps the front drive shaft together that keeps shearing. Question to poster--Is the pin the only thing that keeps the shaft from spinning on the yoke? Or is it splined or some other interlocking joint and the pin is just designed to keep the parts from separating not transmit the rotational force of the drive shaft? I am guessing it is a splined connection. If so then something is wrong. The pin should not be subjected to the rotational force of the drive shaft, It is only there to prevent the shaft from coming apart. Check for any wear in the spline connection, Wiggle it back and forth without the pin installed. If you get any movement then the splines are worn and that is letting the rotational force snap the pin.

 

[slopemower]

Thanks for the ideas. Daren, I'm from Peacham, over on the other side of VT. Yes, the driveline is splined Kubotasam. The pin is a spring pin, so it is quite tight when driven in, so maybe even just a slight play in the splines is enough to shear it. Maybe a slightly diameter smaller bolt would allow the splines to bear all the rotational force.

 

[kubotasam]

Can you feel any slop movement when the splines are engaged? How hard is it to get the shaft out and give it a good inspection? If it is really dangerous when you have a failure I think you want it fixed correctly.

 

[D2Cat]

If it's a "roll pin", a hard steel with an open side that needs to fit with an interference fit----install a new one with the correct OD (metric) and run a piece of wire through it to keep it in place.

 

[Tooljunkie]

I cant see a split pin working in this situation, a tube with a slit will work out in time. Even a roll pin will find its way out if splines are worn. Especially if driveline is constantly loaded or torqued up.
A bolt as described above will be the better choice. Loss of control by far outweighs the slight risk of damaging something else in driveline. This isnt a shear pin- its a retainer.
But the spline wear needs to be addressed.

 

[D2Cat]

I cant see a split pin working in this situation, a tube with a slit will work out in time. Even a roll pin will find its way out if splines are worn. Especially if driveline is constantly loaded or torqued up.

We need to understand terms. A split pin is more commonly called a cotter pin. It is often used by going thru a hole drilled perpendicular to a shaft and after a nut is installed spread the ends to keep the nut in place. Like a tie rod end.

Definitely not an application to keep a U-joint on a splined shaft.

Not sure what you're describing as a "tube with a slit".

A roll pin can be a split roll pin or a coil roll pin. The split roll pin is sometimes called a "C" pin. A coil roll pin looks like @. These roll pins are used by many manufacturers, for example Vermeer, Hesston or Bush Hog, when building implements with PTO shafts. These implements are built to be "constantly loaded or torqued up".

Look at any equipment and see how the U-Joint is attached to the shaft.

Now if a SAE dimension fastener is installed in a metric hole or visa-versa there will be a problem/failure somewhere.

 

[whitetiger]

This is a common problem if you do not keep the slip joint area lubed. As the front axle oscillates the drive shaft needs to get longer and shorter. To allow for this, at the upper u-joint the spline shaft is free to slip in and out of the u-joint. It must be keep lubed or it shears the spiral spring pin. Fluid Film works great on slip joints and it keeps rust from forming in the spline.

 

[D2Cat]

whitetiger, you mentioned Fluid Film. I buy it in the gallon jugs. I use it on just about any moving metal part that needs less friction. It's best application is to spray on the underbody of my snow plow truck. You're right, spraying it on that spline is an excellent application

It's now available in spray cans at O'reilly's.

If you go to PlowSite.com and look up fluid film you can spend hours seeing what folks use it for.

 

[Gundoctor]

I had this happen to me also. This takes a special METRIC roll tension pin. just get the right one.

Part number 05411-00650

No bolts!!!!

David Pidgeon
New Haven, Vermont

 

[redneckarchery]

I cant see a split pin working in this situation, a tube with a slit will work out in time. Even a roll pin will find its way out if splines are worn. Especially if driveline is constantly loaded or torqued up.
A bolt as described above will be the better choice. Loss of control by far outweighs the slight risk of damaging something else in driveline. This isnt a shear pin- its a retainer.
But the spline wear needs to be addressed.

Mine does it also so i just make sure i have 6 pins on hand at all times. I just keep the stuff on hand all the time the change it. Front end loader makes it easier

 

[slopemower]

The first time it failed, the kubota dealer fixed it, so I assume they used the correct metric split roll pin. Seems like a design flaw if it happens to others as well, seeing as it's failure can quickly take away 4wd on a steep slope. And the splines seemed adequately greased to allow fore/aft movement. I ended up ordering the type of pin which is used to connect the 2nd knuckle joint to the driveline, up by the front axle. It is a clevis pin, held in place with a washer and cotter pin- part #K2561-16782. I think this will work. It is just slightly undersized in the hole, so shouldn't bear any rotational torque. Not sure why there are two different types of pins used on, what seems to me, to be identical situations- I imagine the engineers had reason though.

 

[Gundoctor]

I think this is a big time mistake. It will be undersize which will in time start to make the holes larger in working with it. Just put in the Kubota pin only.

 

[slopemower]

Well, perhaps I shouldn't have said undersized- more like perfectly sized, but not a hammered in fit. I've been lucky twice. Doing the same thing for the third time and expecting a different result, no thanks. I think this will work. There are two u-joints on the drive shaft and one uses the clevis pin and hasn't failed. I'm going to try try the same pin in the rear u-joint. Thanks to everyone for their input, it is very much appreciated.

 

[slopemower]

And to clarify terms, it was a driven in spring pin, or slit(like a c)roll pin which failed, and I am replacing it with a kubota u-joint clevis pin, held with a washer and cotter pin.

 

[cweveritt]

While doing a lot of cleanup after hurricane Michael, I have replaced this roll pin three times in the last month or two. It does not fall out, it breaks and the remanent must be driven out of the shaft. The last time I carefully cleaned the splines on the floating shaft and made sure that it moved in and out of the universal joint. I jacked up the front wheels so that they were free and raised and lowered the wheel and made sure that the shaft was not freezing or jamming into anything as the wheel went up and down. Also checked for slop between the splines which was minimum. In less than a month the new roll pin broke. I had a hard time driving the broken pin out but after applying penetrating oil I was able to tap it out with a regular punch. After reading this post I bought Fluid Film and applied it as recommended by user WhiteTiger. I will see how it goes and try to give a report after a couple of months. If I forget, and you need to know, send me an email and remind me to update this.