D1105T hard starting, white smoke

[Sean2202]

Greetings,

I have a D1105T engine from a Toro Groundsmaster 3500D code 1G993-2300 that seems to have developed a hart starting issue. I have three of these D1105T engines and they are great. Usually I can turn the key to preheat, light goes off, fires right up with minimal white smoke. This particular machine will crank for a longer period of time puffing white smoke. If I give it 3/4 throttle after cranking for a bit it will finally take off. Once it is running it will run great with no issues. No smoke purrs like brand new this engine has 4960 hours. Once it is warmed up and is shut off it will fire right back up.

I have records going back to 991 hrs on this machine. It has never had the valves checked or any major maintenance done to it. I plan on checking the valve in the off season. Just oil changes and fuel filter changes. The last fuel filter was done at 4683 hrs. I do not know if the hard starting is linked to cold weather but it still should fire right up. Even on really cold days a cycle or two on the glow plugs will fire these up.

So My first thought is bad glow plugs. I believe at these hrs they should just be changed out. Is there a possibility of them breaking off due to age or carbon?

Injectors-Is it worth it to change them out at this point or just keep going?

One thing that has been done to this recently was I replaced the seal in the gear case cover due to leakage. I am not sure if the problem was there before that replacement or not. I followed the service manual and have done that job before with success. I made sure that the markings lined up for the oil pump.

This machine did overheat once this year and shut down due to a blown radiator hose on the block by the water pump. That was at 4760 hrs during the summer. It ran good until recently.

I am learning more each day by reading threads here. Thank you all for your help!

Sean

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

First check the glow plugs, and the circuit feeding them, if they are bad pull and replace.
If they check out fine, then do a compression test.

 

[Sean2202]

I found the glow plug timer to not be producing current to the glow plugs. Swapped it out and has power now. I will still be diving into testing and replacing glow plugs this winter.

The glow plug controller I have says NGK model S85NT. I found the same modules on my V2003T engine harness. I assume these modules are all interchangeable. Is this module a Kubota item or a manufacture item from Toro?

Is there anyway to find a failing glow plug module or do they just fail all of a sudden?

Sean

 

[Roadworthy]

If the controller says NGK it is neither Kubota nor Toro, it's an NGK product. NGK probably made your glow plugs as well. You likely have the controller because glow plugs frequently operate at 9.5 volts, not 12.

 

[Sean2202]

Thanks for the tip on the controller. Makes sence it is made by NGK as it states NGK. I have 10.6 volts at the wire that comes from it.

I did a quick search trying to find one online but came up empty. Does anyone know where I could buy one from a supplier online?

Sean

 

[Jim L.]

Sean

If you wouldn't mind looking at the glow plug controllers. NGK would put a custom number above the S85NT. For example, Doosan equipment had number 17095-65661. If you have a Kubota number it might make for an easier search, and less expensive. Otherwise you might look up the Toro part number. If there is a number(s) please post it and get more eyeballs on it.

Prices seem to vary all over the landscape, the Doosan asking over $300. So it would pay to carefully research before purchase.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Does it look like this?

https://www.ebay.com/i/293040181022...w0aHQMZzQyFHqcrmxd4k02KphSaYg76kaAnE2EALw_wcB

 

[Sean2202]

Well all be darned might be another problem. I swapped out the glow plug timer on Friday with one I had on the shelf that was a similar unit. I was told by Toro that the part numbers cross referenced. I then got 10.6 volts at the wire going to the glow plugs. Today I tried it and no voltage. Going to look at the wire diagram next, probably should have done that first. Possibly the relay, timer or computer needs testing.

Here is a thread on tractorbynet about glow plug timers and testing them.

https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/parts-repairs/330587-glow-plug-timer-control-units.html

My timer has numbers 17095-65661 on it. I tried loading a pic but I can not get it to upload. I did find this plug online which looks similar to mine and has 17095-65661 on it. Checked with Kubota and 17095-65661 is not a Kubota part number but comes up as a Doosan.

https://www.partstree.com/parts/toro-98-7611/

The one that Wolfman posted above states 15694-65992 then underneath S81 NL for $26 on ebay. Mine lists for over $300. What is the difference and could I use that one on ebay? There is the correct amount of wires shown in the picture and on mine and the correct voltage. The only difference I see is that where it plugs in is roatated 90degrees. Not a big deal as far as clearance goes I have room to rotate the plug if needed.

I have been told and not 100% sure on the compatibility but I have found that this part can be purchased through Doosan as it crosses over DW17095-65661 for $234.31

 

[Jim L.]

If you decide to get another glow plug controller, the key is NGK S85NT. The replacement needs to match voltages, timing, and current capability. Some controllers are 24V, for example.

The Doosan is the original part. It is pricey. Depending on your time and budget you may want to find another source which matches the NGK S85NT.

 

[Sean2202]

Just wanted to update this thread. I tracked the problem down to a bad relay that was before the glow plug timer. Sometimes it would work and other times it would not. All has been well since replacing it. Even in 20 degree mornings.