Crunchy chirp from front wheel (4x4)

[FiveArrow]

Our farm finally aquired a loader tractor, L3400, and only 350 hours, she has worked hard all summer surprising all with her abilities... Until two days ago. I was pulling our steel wheeled cockshutt manure spreader (yes, I will post pictures when things settle down) and I heard a strange noise that was suprisingly coming from ahead of me not the prehistoric beast in tow... The front right wheel had a new crunchy clicky sound that I hadn't heard before, but barely audible and intermittent, I checked the front axle oil and it seems the previous owner had over filled it to the top of the filling hole, I drained some, it was pretty black, and added fresh oil to the proper level, and kept going... The next day scraping out the chicken coop when the bucket was full the sound got louder, to the point where I know I'm not imagining it anymore.
I hate to open this up right now, but a random crunching sound is rarely a good thing, has anybody come across this? Any advice for things to look for in there?
Thanks,

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

#1 check the lug nuts, you wouldn't be the first to have a loose wheel.
#2 get the service manual before you tear into it, makes life a heck of a lot easier.

 

[FiveArrow]

Thanks for the quick advice, the lug nuts are tight, I elevated the front wheels and it doesn't make the sound when I spin them by hand... I'm going to head to town this afternoon to try to pick up a service manual and some more fluid... Prepping for surgery I guess.

 

[Tooljunkie]

Never a good noise to hear, longer it runs like that, the more expensive it gets.have no fear going in there, manual will give you the knowledge you need.

 

[2458n]

Pick up some good snapring pliers. If I remember you will need inside and outside ones. My bearings crushed because I had the front wheels reversed and the bucket really over loaded. Learned real quick why not to widen the front wheels out.

 

[FiveArrow]

My dealer needs to order in the service manual, in the mean time I found one online for the L3200 which seems to have the same front axle assembly as my L3400 I am tempted to dive in this weekend. Thanks 2458n for the snapring pliers advice, I do not currently own any but this looks like the excuse i need to pick some up... But by 'widened' front wheels you mean switched sides and hubs pointing out instead of in right? I too have done that, this tractor spent far too much time on two wheels so we switched all 4, I had to even go so far as to order the back wheel spacers and it makes a big difference in stability... Are you saying that the widest setting of the front wheels can't handle the weight of a full loader bucket? That is troubling, how does the 'skinny' front setting affect stability? And which bearings got crushed? Yikes.

And tooljunkie, my wife was of the opinion that if it was still working we should use it until it stops working... Fix it in the winter, It's just a noise right? Thanks, I showed her your post.

 

[Bluegill]

Also, a lot of loader work without enough 'counter ballast' (weight) on the 3 pt
will kill a front-end. Especially when in 4wd... Been there, done that!

 

[cerlawson]

I gotta question worrying abut extra leverage on the bearings by widening out. Surely the manufacturer has taken that into account in designing the machine. They know darn well that the machines are going to be over-loaded now and then and subjected to rough use. Seals can wear and dirt can get as well as other factors are hard to design against, but overloading due to hub direction?. I'm not so sure.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

how does the 'skinny' front setting affect stability? My wife was of the opinion that if it was still working we should use it until it stops working... Fix it in the winter, It's just a noise right? Thanks, I showed her your post.

Skinny front does not effect stability at all, The front end swivels and does not hold the tractor level at all!

Pay now or pay a lot more later, and think about how much poo you would be in if the hub broke off completely and the tractor nosed in.

 

[Tooljunkie]

The closer to centered with the wheels to hub bearings, the least amount of stress on bearings. Wide wheel stance is more for matching rear wheel track. The load carrying capacity of the front end never changes.

 

[Bluegill]

The owner's manual on these tractors says Not to flip the front wheels wider. It wont help anyway. Now setting the back tires out helps a LOT.

Again, need plenty of weight on the 3 pt!

 

[FiveArrow]

I was about to argue that hypothetically right before the tractor tips over the front axle would be pivoted until it contacts the frame and at that moment every inch would count... And then Bluegill stopped that in its tracks... Rtfm... I can't believe I missed that, right under the heading 'important'... 'Do not turn front discs to obtain wider tread.'

I just hope I only damaged the one side.
I'll let you know what I find inside.
Thanks.

 

[FiveArrow]

After a small battle with the tie rod I was able to get the noisy drive gear off this morning. The last bit of oil that drained out had tiny specks of silver, I figured I'd find a wrecked bearing or at least something ugly inside, but the whole thing looked like a Swiss watch. Only one bearing (the first one that connects to the drive axle) is at all rough, and I mean a little bit rough. I'm tempted to just put it all back together and pretend nothing ever happened... But I might be missing something... 2458n you said you crushed some bearings by having the wide front stance, do you recall which ones took the damage?

What about the silver specks? Leftover from breaking in the gears?

I really don't know where to look next, but I'm not afraid of going in there again if necessary, pretty incredible engineering.
Thanks,

 

[ShaunRH]

Yeah, changing the fronts wouldn't have much effect because of the pivot being the weak point of the stability anyway. We have a tendency to see tractors like trucks or cars, they aren't. Only at max deflection of the pivot do you get any front tire support to the frame and by then, with a loaded bucket? Likely Too late.

Changing the fronts would change where the stress on the bearings would fall. Since the fronts have high camber angles, the pressure is intended to be centered on the tire tread from the axle pivot. So the pressure is roughly equal on the bearing system. It's engineered that way. When you flip the fronts, you've now moved the center of pressure outside of the center of pivot and you have massive stresses on the bearings, when rolling, when turning, everywhere. Pressure is applied to the reverse direction of the design and the bearings can't handle it. It should also make the steering more sluggish and difficult, putting wear on the steering mechanisms.

 

[FiveArrow]

So, embarrassing fix... after it was all back together and refilled with fresh gear oil the sound was still there... I noticed that it was now faintly heard when the tractor was not moving... That's when I... (Drum roll)... Tightened the fan belt... Yup the fan belt was slapping around and making weird noises but I guess the frequency only made sounds when the engine was under load... Anyway not a total loss: I know the front axle is in great shape inside and I have switched the front wheels back to their correct setting thus averting possible future troubles, and I have a slick new set of snapring pliers.

Thanks everybody for your advice,
Please enjoy your chuckle at my expense.
Now back to work.

 

[Tooljunkie]

Today- snap ring pliers,next month who knows. Welcome to the tool of the month club.....buy the tool or pay someone that has,usually labour saved justifies the tool(s).
My wife believes it too!

Glad your axle problem is solved.

 

[Daren Todd]

Thanks everybody for your advice,
Please enjoy your chuckle at my expense.
Now back to work.

Happens to the best of us. I've had equipment shipped 600 miles to me before just to replace a fuel line, or a rubber gasket on an oil fill cap.