Crossed injector wire on 9960

D2Cat

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If they are that incompetent how good will it be when they put it back together? I might be inclined to contact a kubota district rep. at this point so there is some leverage against that dealer. If nothing else Kubota will see their need for improvement which should help others, at least.
 
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Tx Jim

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If this was my tractor I would attempt to have a conference meeting with dealer,service manager & party that disassembled the engine. If conference meeting doesn't get a satisfactory resolution then Kubota Corp would be hearing from me.
 

GeoHorn

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I’m not able to offer much based upon what we’ve already discussed, other than to say...
As someone who spent 50+ years as a mechanic, a service-writer, a service-manager at dealerships, and subsequently as maintenance supervisor for a couple of Fortune 500 subsidiaries,...
I’ve found that one of the most common causes of disagreements and misunderstandings is directly caused by mis-communication when the machine is first placed in the hands of the shop... and the work-description or service-order is improperly, incompletely, or inaccurately described at the very first.
Customers are thinking they have adequately described the problem and their perceptions of what the “fix” might be, .... but the service-writer often hears something completely different, ... and the work-order is neither adequately descriptive nor read by the customer/directly approved by the customer IN WRITING.
Later, when the disagreement/controversy occurs... it’s always the other persons fault. Work was performed which the customer didn’t think he’d authorized, or work is NOT performed which the customer thought he had expected and been promised.

THIS discussion thread has many of the signals of that sort of miscommunication.

I can also say (with plenty of experience) that any mechanic who undertakes to correct some amateur’s screw-ups is asking for trouble and controversy up-front. And in many cases there is no way either party will find satisfaction with the transaction.

The shop should have obtained written permission before opening up that engine. The customer has every right to expect good communication and prior-permission by the shop. It appears that the shop, having failed in obtaining that prior-permission, is willing to absorb the costs of their error of labor, and that speaks well of them. Any failed parts should be paid for by the customer, IMO, and if successful, the customer will have come out waay-ahead having gotten his tractor fixed without having to pay for all the labor.
But if the shop cannot find the cause of failure... I don’t believe this is their failure. They didn’t cause the problem, and by customer’s own admission, it was an unusual and nonsensical problem. The customer is no worse-off than before he handed them the tractor since it didn’t run when he brought it in and may not run afterward either (presuming they can’t fix this.... yet to be determined.)

Soo, it seems to me that to lose one’s temper and feel justified in confronting a mechanic who is trying to fix the broken tractor and accuse him of impropriety... especially when one doesn’t know how the difficulty was transmitted to him or understood by him in the first-place,... seems to be jumping-the-gun.

Talking directly to the shop’s Owner and letting the Owner interact with the mechanic first is likely a better way to get everything back-on-track towards happiness. Confronting the mechanic who has the tractor split-open and not-yet running directly with anger in one’s voice is almost certain to end up badly.

Not criticizing... only Hoping to Help.... and wishing for success for you. (And, Kubota tractors are some of the best machines available, regardless of a specific dealer’s customer relations. Doubtless the engine can be repaired by someone in Texas, even if the shop was not who broke the machine, and even if not this shop.)
 

beex

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... I’ve found that one of the most common causes of disagreements and misunderstandings is directly caused by mis-communication when the machine is first placed in the hands of the shop... and the work-description or service-order is improperly, incompletely, or inaccurately described at the very first.

Customers are thinking they have adequately described the problem and their perceptions of what the “fix” might be, .... but the service-writer often hears something completely different, ... and the work-order is neither adequately descriptive nor read by the customer/directly approved by the customer IN WRITING.

Later, when the disagreement/controversy occurs... it’s always the other persons fault. Work was performed which the customer didn’t think he’d authorized, or work is NOT performed which the customer thought he had expected and been promised.



THIS discussion thread has many of the signals of that sort of miscommunication.

IMO If this communication problem happens all the time the shop is responsible for making sure doesn’t happen. The shop deals with this multiple times a day every day, they are the experts that need to prevent miss-communication problems. The customer likely has never or rarely took his Kubota into a shop.

When I take my care to the shop, they write down every detailed thing they are going to do, read every line of it to me, then I sign it. If something comes up while doing the work, they stop call, get the OK to continue. When I pick up the car, they have written everything thing they did, and every cost item. I sign that, pay, and have a detailed record of everything done to my car.


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D2Cat

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Beex, I agree with you. I give specific instructions, like oil change, rotate tires. Nothing else. Before anything else is done call me. They always call to tell me my air filter is dirty, shocks leak....something to get more work.

I actually caught a tech not telling the truth one time. I had a flat on the left, rear of my truck and had it patched. The shop had put a yellow mark where the wheel weight was, and then put it back on in that position.

A few days later I took the truck to the dealership to get the oil changed and tires rotated, guess what? Came to pick it up and the yellow mark was still on the left rear tire. I asked the service mgr. if the tires had been rotated and he said yes, he saw it being done. I told him the story of the yellow mark, he asked the tech, but I didn't stick around to hear any excuses. I haven't been back to that dealership since.
 

beex

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I’m lucky so far with my car shop. Been going to the same place for 25 years. If they tell me it needs something, it needs it. Sometimes I take it in and say I want something done, they call me say it doesn’t really need it yet, but I tell them I want it done anyway. Last mont I had my front and back brakes done. They called said, doesn’t need back brakes. Pads looked low to me, I wanted new ones, so I said I wanted new ones anyway because I didn’t want to come back in 5k or 8k miles. He said he felt bad selling me something I don’t need. I said don’t feel bad, I’m being the idiot here.

Other time my alternator was making a really bad noise, belts seemed tight to me, took it in, said I need a new one. Called me back an hour later said, car is done, $10. Really? you can’t even pull into the garage for $10. Tightened the belt.

Another time, same car, my back suspension was loose and making a knocking noise. Looked to me like the link arm bushing where shot. Took it in to get new ones, they called me back an hour ready, car is done, $49. I said asked what they did. 4 wheel alignment adjustment came loose, did an alignment.

They could have done what I thought I needed those times and charged a lot for it.

They did make a mistake once. Took car in for timing belt, water pump change, thermostat change. Picked up car, checked under hood before leaving - I always do that - saw antifreeze on top of engine. Went back in, shop was already closed, they gave me a nice new loner car off the lot. Came back next day, nothing was wrong, just forgot to take the car to the car cleaning station, so they cleaned it.

Not going to go anywhere else.


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RCW

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'Cat and beex - - I feel so lucky in having a couple car places I've dealt with for many years - almost 30 now.

One is owned by the husband of my kids' former babysitter, the other by the son of my former coffee buddy (dad is 94 now).

I kind of have the run of both places....I treat them well, the do in turn.

I live in a very rural place, this kind of thing isn't uncommon. Guessing it's a lot tougher in a more populated place.

My apologies to the original poster for the tangent.:eek:
 
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RCW

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Hey, we're just setting around waiting for a follow-up visit after he talked to the shop!

Yeah, very true!!
Hope he gets it figured out.



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Kubota9969

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Sorry ended up getting busy on figuring out what IÂ’m going to do

So I went and talked to the mechanic and I believe I got a lot more out of him.
Supposedly my muffler/burner got plugged and the exhaust had no where to go and it was going back through the motor. Wearing the pistons and cylinders down little by little over time.

So they are saying the valve cover starting leaking because the exhaust had no where to go and finally built up enough pressure to break that.

Mechanic also said that he read up more on the injector wire and said it shouldnÂ’t matter which way the injector was wire. There is not a polarity on the injector.

My thought was when I replaced valve cover gasket I got rid of the engines spot to get rid of the exhaust so it was choked up. The motor pushed oil into the manifold and up into the air filter.

The piston does have slop in the cylinder. So mechanic said since oil was force in the manifold and air filter and the slop in the cylinder heÂ’s considering the motor wiped out. That there are to many leaks to fix and Kubota doesnÂ’t have a way to fix the slop in the cylinder because the cylinder does not have sleeves.

So I think I might actually need a new motor or a rebuilt on what do yÂ’all think?

A new motor would be a easy swap they said. And it would come with every new including the muffler I need that runs around 3k alone.

I also found a company that has a good reputation on rebuilding Diesel engines here in Houston. They tear it down completely replace everything needed and they have the machines to cut out the cylinder bigger and put a bigger piston in. They stand behind their work and even give it a warranty

Getting the engine rebuilt is definitely the cheaper route but I donÂ’t know of the cost of all the things I might need to replace as in muffler, injectors, ect
 

eserv

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Sorry ended up getting busy on figuring out what IÂ’m going to do

So I went and talked to the mechanic and I believe I got a lot more out of him.
Supposedly my muffler/burner got plugged and the exhaust had no where to go and it was going back through the motor. Wearing the pistons and cylinders down little by little over time.

So they are saying the valve cover starting leaking because the exhaust had no where to go and finally built up enough pressure to break that.

Mechanic also said that he read up more on the injector wire and said it shouldnÂ’t matter which way the injector was wire. There is not a polarity on the injector.

My thought was when I replaced valve cover gasket I got rid of the engines spot to get rid of the exhaust so it was choked up. The motor pushed oil into the manifold and up into the air filter.

The piston does have slop in the cylinder. So mechanic said since oil was force in the manifold and air filter and the slop in the cylinder heÂ’s considering the motor wiped out. That there are to many leaks to fix and Kubota doesnÂ’t have a way to fix the slop in the cylinder because the cylinder does not have sleeves.

So I think I might actually need a new motor or a rebuilt on what do yÂ’all think?

A new motor would be a easy swap they said. And it would come with every new including the muffler I need that runs around 3k alone.

I also found a company that has a good reputation on rebuilding Diesel engines here in Houston. They tear it down completely replace everything needed and they have the machines to cut out the cylinder bigger and put a bigger piston in. They stand behind their work and even give it a warranty

Getting the engine rebuilt is definitely the cheaper route but I donÂ’t know of the cost of all the things I might need to replace as in muffler, injectors, ect
If the DPF was plugged ( Not all that surprising at 3900 hrs) The engine certainly wasn't working good before the valve cover gaskets were replaced! Pistons are available from Kubota .5mm (.020 inch) oversize so the engine can be rebuilt. I don't know what the difference in price is but I think I'd lean toward the new engine with 12 months warranty from Kubota.
 

beex

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wow, that’s a weird thing, exhausting out the valve gasket. I think the industry has some more development work to do in this DPF business. Been all sorts of problems with them.


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Kubota9969

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If the DPF was plugged ( Not all that surprising at 3900 hrs) The engine certainly wasn't working good before the valve cover gaskets were replaced! Pistons are available from Kubota .5mm (.020 inch) oversize so the engine can be rebuilt. I don't know what the difference in price is but I think I'd lean toward the new engine with 12 months warranty from Kubota.
I noticed the motor running a little hotter than normal last summer but I thought it was just because it was so hot. We had record heat last year with a heat index of around 110 for weeks.

Right now to get the motor rebuilt is about 3,400 then I might need the dpf around 3k then possibly injectors and no telling what else.

A new engine through Kubota installed is right at 20k
 

eserv

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I noticed the motor running a little hotter than normal last summer but I thought it was just because it was so hot. We had record heat last year with a heat index of around 110 for weeks.

Right now to get the motor rebuilt is about 3,400 then I might need the dpf around 3k then possibly injectors and no telling what else.

A new engine through Kubota installed is right at 20k
Injectors are $1000 each! New engine also comes with a new ECU And completely new fuel system. What condition is the rest of the tractor in?
 

SidecarFlip

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Not that I have one (Tier 4 engine), because I don't, but I was under the understanding that when the DPF canister became full / plugged with burned soot, that the engine threw a warning light and derated (like JD's do).

So, I'm understanding it never derated and it never threw a code or light?

Sure am glad I don't own one.

Like I said, I know JD's derate and throw a code / light. My buddy down the road has a few.

Gee, every owner of a Tier 4 DPF equipped engine has that to look forward to. Not that most will be original owners but somewhere along the line, some owner will be on the hook.
 

SidecarFlip

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Injectors are $1000 each! New engine also comes with a new ECU And completely new fuel system. What condition is the rest of the tractor in?
That will be the deciding factor. If it's beat, dump it for whatever you can get and go buy a pre tier 4 kubota in your horsepower range (if you can find one that isn't beat) if, I say if you can find one because as owners realize what Tier 4 is all about, they are keeping their pre 4 tractors. I was extremely fortunate to find a pre 4 M9 and didn't quibble over the price, or, switch brands, but be apprised that switching brands won't dismiss the fact that no matter what you buy, it will have the Tier 4 hardware and software on it.
 

RCW

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Right now to get the motor rebuilt is about 3,400 then I might need the dpf around 3k then possibly injectors and no telling what else.

A new engine through Kubota installed is right at 20k
Yikes! :eek: So sorry to hear that.

eserv is really the expert. I'm not even a rookie compared to him, but $3,400 + + sounds cheap for the rebuild.

If these guys you heard about are truly good, I'd be apt to rebuild it....but again, my advice isn't worth much....

Wishing you the best. I know you need that tractor to work, and work right...
 

BAP

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How old is your tractor? Does it still have emissions warranty? If so, I would find out if any of it is covered by warranty before deciding which way to go.
 

eserv

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BX24, A1000 Kubota Generator
May 27, 2009
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Not that I have one (Tier 4 engine), because I don't, but I was under the understanding that when the DPF canister became full / plugged with burned soot, that the engine threw a warning light and derated (like JD's do).

So, I'm understanding it never derated and it never threw a code or light?

Sure am glad I don't own one.

Like I said, I know JD's derate and throw a code / light. My buddy down the road has a few.

Gee, every owner of a Tier 4 DPF equipped engine has that to look forward to. Not that most will be original owners but somewhere along the line, some owner will be on the hook.
If the DPF plugged on this tractor it would have derated and the red engine light would have been on with the rpm limited . The only way to get it right again would have been with Diagmaster. There is a lot in this saga we don't know yet!