Could I damage the PTO by doing this?
- Thread starter Big Trees
- Start date
Also, it is not the shear bolt that has the clip on it -- it is the shaft itself. The one that
goes from inside the U-shaped piece into the gearbox on the mower deck. If you look
closely inside the u-shaped piece you can see a groove almost at the end of the
shaft. The c-clip goes in that groove and keeps the shaft from pulling out of the u-shaped
piece. It is almost at the end of the arrow in the pic I posted.
See these small pins. Something like these that fit in the hole. It is separate from the bolt. Two different items. The pin keeps the U-joint on the shaft of the gear box when the bolt shears.
http://www.agrisupply.com/hitch-pins/c/1900037/
http://www.agrisupply.com/hitch-pins/c/1900037/
Thanks for the link and the further information guys. I hate to be a pain but I still don't understand what you all are saying. When I go out by the tractor I will look at the U shaped piece and see if I see what you all are talking about.
Thank you guys
Thank you guys
The sheer pin is what the two yellow arrows are pointing to.
I have 2 brush hogs. One is a 5' heavy duty JD brand and the other is a 4' almost exactly like yours. Like others have said, make sure that it is a shear bolt! I have put my 4' through he!! and it has the battle scars and welds to prove it. A weak spot on this cutter is where the gear box bolt holes are on the top of the deck. Stress cracks developed on mine 3 times. The first two times I welded the cracks. The third time I welded a new plate that covers the whole top of the raised base where the gear box bolts to. If you are using it hard, check closely for the start of these cracks.
Click on the pic to make it larger.
I have 2 brush hogs. One is a 5' heavy duty JD brand and the other is a 4' almost exactly like yours. Like others have said, make sure that it is a shear bolt! I have put my 4' through he!! and it has the battle scars and welds to prove it. A weak spot on this cutter is where the gear box bolt holes are on the top of the deck. Stress cracks developed on mine 3 times. The first two times I welded the cracks. The third time I welded a new plate that covers the whole top of the raised base where the gear box bolts to. If you are using it hard, check closely for the start of these cracks.
Click on the pic to make it larger.
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olthumpa- Thanks for the post and the helpful information. I'm familiar with the shear bolt but from what I'm gathering is that I'm missing the C clip part to keep the shaft connected if the bolt shears. That's what I'm not understanding. Anything I can find online doesn't have any clips or anything to keep it in position. Only the bolt/pins. Does anybody have any pictures of their "c clip" setup they don't mind sharing?
Thank you all!
Thank you all!
rbargeron
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I think the pto shaft is too long and its bottoming out when the back end of the attachment lifts, shearing the soft bolt. The harder bolt is strong enough to actually force the back of the tractor up. This is a dangerous situation because in the right circumstances it could tip the tractor over. It also puts high forces into the system, potentially breaking parts. Need to cut the pto shaft shorter - very important. (And go back to a soft bolt.)
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rbargeron- Thank you for the helpful advice. I was wondering if that was my problem or not. I didn't know how to come to a conclusion on that though. When I bought this setup, which came together, there was NO bolt or anything on the tractor/shaft connection. The splines went together and there is/was a "lever" type deal that I would move over to bring the two together and then the lever would move back and it would keep the shaft/tractor connection together. That lever is no longer holding it together. There was a "notch" cut out on the tractor's pto that the lever would fit inside and that would keep the pieces from coming apart. That didn't last all that long before the shaft come off of the tractor's pto and started banging around. That's when I figured I needed a bolt to hold it together.
I have to be honest, I'm still confused on why I would have a problem having a "hard" bolt on the pto/shaft side of the connection because all that bolt seems to do is hold the two pieces together. Since the shaft and pto have splines then it's not going to shear if I hit something hard anyways. The force would be on the splines on the pto/shaft anyways. Am I not understanding that part correctly? I'm thinking the bolt on the shaft/mower gearbox is the one that I should worry about shearing. Am I just plain confused?
Thank you all
rbargeron
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The telescoping pto shaft has to get longer and shorter as the tractor and mower move along uneven ground. Both ends need to be retained so the splines stay engaged. But if the shaft is too long it can't compress enough and something has to give.
Russell King
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Ok you are getting good information but confusion at the same time.
Starting at the tractor the PTO output is splined and has a groove in it near the tractor. The groove is fairly wide and like a half circle.
That end of the PTO shaft will have a mechanism to engage that groove. Sometimes it is a pin that is pushed in. Others have a twist or pull ring with ball bearings that engage the groove. From what yours looks like it is the pin type and there may be some bolt there instead of a pin.
At the mower gearbox the shaft pointing to the tractor is smooth and round. It has a narrow groove near the end closest to the tractor. The PTO shaft is also smooth bored and has a hole drilled crosswise to the bore. Slide the PTO shaft on to the mower shaft and it can be pushed far back so the groove is exposed. A circlip is installed into the groove and now the shaft is unable to come off the mower shaft. Now a bolt has to be installed through the holes in the PTO shaft and the mower shaft. This bolt is the shear bolt and transmits the tractor's output torque into the mower's input shaft. This is the bolt I was previously describing. I install a nut and a lock nut on this bolt so it is locked and can not come out. I do not tighten the first nut very much since it is not needed to be tight. There is no clip involved with the bolt. If this bolt is sheared the circlip in the end of the mower shaft will keep the PTO shaft from coming off.
I think you have a bolt at the tractor end instead of a pin and may be confused that is a shear bolt. It is not a shear pin or bolt. It retains the shaft onto the tractor PTO output shaft. I would not feel safe with anything there except the correct pin.
Please also get a safety shield onto the PTO SHAFT. In fact you may want to invest in a complete new PTO shaft between the tractor and mower.
I suggest you go to a tractor store and have them show you how the shaft is supposed to be installed at both ends.
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Starting at the tractor the PTO output is splined and has a groove in it near the tractor. The groove is fairly wide and like a half circle.
That end of the PTO shaft will have a mechanism to engage that groove. Sometimes it is a pin that is pushed in. Others have a twist or pull ring with ball bearings that engage the groove. From what yours looks like it is the pin type and there may be some bolt there instead of a pin.
At the mower gearbox the shaft pointing to the tractor is smooth and round. It has a narrow groove near the end closest to the tractor. The PTO shaft is also smooth bored and has a hole drilled crosswise to the bore. Slide the PTO shaft on to the mower shaft and it can be pushed far back so the groove is exposed. A circlip is installed into the groove and now the shaft is unable to come off the mower shaft. Now a bolt has to be installed through the holes in the PTO shaft and the mower shaft. This bolt is the shear bolt and transmits the tractor's output torque into the mower's input shaft. This is the bolt I was previously describing. I install a nut and a lock nut on this bolt so it is locked and can not come out. I do not tighten the first nut very much since it is not needed to be tight. There is no clip involved with the bolt. If this bolt is sheared the circlip in the end of the mower shaft will keep the PTO shaft from coming off.
I think you have a bolt at the tractor end instead of a pin and may be confused that is a shear bolt. It is not a shear pin or bolt. It retains the shaft onto the tractor PTO output shaft. I would not feel safe with anything there except the correct pin.
Please also get a safety shield onto the PTO SHAFT. In fact you may want to invest in a complete new PTO shaft between the tractor and mower.
I suggest you go to a tractor store and have them show you how the shaft is supposed to be installed at both ends.
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Russell King - That was a great breakdown and it explained everything exactly how it should be AND exactly how it is. Thank you, sir.
You are correct about there being a bolt holding the pto shaft onto the tractor pto. There IS a spring loaded pin there but it doesn't hold the shaft onto the tractor anymore. When I bought this setup it did not have a bolt on the tractor end of the setup but after the shaft came off of the tractor a few times and started banging around I figured that I needed to run a bolt through there.
Yesterday after calling a bush hog dealer and re-reading over this thread I went out and found the "circlip" you are speaking of. There IS one on the tractor now in the exact place that you described.
On the tractor side of the hook up is the spring loaded pin like you said but when I put it on it doesn't take long for it to back off when I'm using it. I will go to the tractor supply soon and see if I buy a new shaft if it will stay on the tractor or if maybe my problem is with the tractor pto.
You probably noticed in the picture that I posted there was a white pvc pipe on the shaft as well. That was my first attempt of getting the shaft to stay on the tractor. I had that and another piece there to take up the space that the shaft could retract back but that didn't work for very long at all.
I appreciate your help, I will look into a new shaft and see if that'll take care of my problem.
Thank you very much.
rbargeron
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BigTrees: In the picture in post #17 it looks like the mower's stub shaft has splines. Does it? Or is it smooth? Also the pto shaft must be free to extend and compress a couple inches in operation. Blocking its motion is not a good idea - pvc would crush before causing an upset but stronger material would make it dangerous (see post #27).
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When you go to the tractor store, or contact the Bush Hog dealer, and just get the pin and spring that is not functioning correctly....don't need to by the complete end of the shaft.
Thanks for that tip. I did leave a few inches for the expansion for when the lift raises and lowers but I could never get the length of pvc "just right" to keep it from falling off. The shaft coming off of the mower does NOT have splines, neither does that end of the shaft itself. On the tractor side, BOTH have splines.
Thanks for that, D2Cat, I was not aware of that.
The pin itself does move so I think that is not my problem. I'm really not sure why it doesnt' hold though. I will look into it further this weekend.
There is a compression spring in there that keeps it in the locked position, unless you push the pin in (compressing the spring) to attach or release the splined end.
Spring could be deteriorated by rust, broke or gummed up with dirt. Spray some PB Blaster or similar product to make sure it move back and forth freely.
Many time users will leave the shaft on the implement and the end with the pin/spring gets left in the dirt. Soon water and dirt make it less then ideal to function properly.
Spring could be deteriorated by rust, broke or gummed up with dirt. Spray some PB Blaster or similar product to make sure it move back and forth freely.
Many time users will leave the shaft on the implement and the end with the pin/spring gets left in the dirt. Soon water and dirt make it less then ideal to function properly.
Russell King
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Glad to help out. I am confused a bit though. At the tractor end is the bolt installed where the pin should be? I agree with D2Cat the pin mechanism is probably bad and needs replacement. I have seen the kits but have no idea how to get the correct one selected.
To describe how that work...
The pin is pushed to one side by a spring. In that position the pin is completely round and locks into the groove in the tractor PTO shaft. Pushing on the end of the pin moves the pin into position to install or remove the shaft from the tractor stub shaft. In the pin is a machined flat spot so about half the pin diameter is gone. This allows room for the PTO shaft to fit onto the full diameter of the splined tractor stub shaft. Once you get it started on you can release the pin. Then it will pop into place when you push the shaft towards the tractor. The spring the hold the pin in place to keep the shafts locked together.
Hope that makes sense.
The safety shield is simply a stationary cover over the rotating shaft that keeps you separated from danger of getting something (clothes, glove, fingers, wire) caught and wrapped around the shaft. A large diameter tube could be used but the shields have simple bearings to keep them in place and can extend or shrink with the
PTO shaft. I found some on line that were reasonably priced. I can look them up if you want, I have forgotten the names now.
While 540 rpm is not that fast it is a lot faster than you or I.
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To describe how that work...
The pin is pushed to one side by a spring. In that position the pin is completely round and locks into the groove in the tractor PTO shaft. Pushing on the end of the pin moves the pin into position to install or remove the shaft from the tractor stub shaft. In the pin is a machined flat spot so about half the pin diameter is gone. This allows room for the PTO shaft to fit onto the full diameter of the splined tractor stub shaft. Once you get it started on you can release the pin. Then it will pop into place when you push the shaft towards the tractor. The spring the hold the pin in place to keep the shafts locked together.
Hope that makes sense.
The safety shield is simply a stationary cover over the rotating shaft that keeps you separated from danger of getting something (clothes, glove, fingers, wire) caught and wrapped around the shaft. A large diameter tube could be used but the shields have simple bearings to keep them in place and can extend or shrink with the
PTO shaft. I found some on line that were reasonably priced. I can look them up if you want, I have forgotten the names now.
While 540 rpm is not that fast it is a lot faster than you or I.
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I know this is a very old thread but if Big Trees has anymore info on how that brush hog performs on the B6000E?? Is it a normal clockwise rotating brush hog just running reverse? Are the blades flipped?? And what type (# of splines) of pto does your B6000E have? I'm thinking of getting a small brush hog and changing the yoke to a 10 spline that will fit the b6000e, instead pf trying to adapt from 10 to 6 spline
this is my experience as to the original question. I now run a six foot bushog on a mx5100 Kubota. Before that on a ford 641 48 hp with a five footer. Before that I used the five foot hog on a ford 9n that had about 20 hp. I ran this 9n five foot combo 30 years fro 1976 until 2006. The 9n was underpowered for heavier stuff but I banged away anyway. Never had the power to snap the shear bolt but stalled the tractor many times . I always wondered how that little tractor could take so much abuse. After 30 years of this abuse I sold it to a neighbour in 2006 and bought the 641 which could snap shear bolts. The neighbour still has it and it runs just fine!
My take away is maybe tractors are tougher than we think. Or maybe I was just lucky.
My take away is maybe tractors are tougher than we think. Or maybe I was just lucky.
TheOldHokie
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I have banged away with a B7200 (17HP) and a 5" Mohawk cutter for 30 years with exactly the same result. Feeding stuff too big or too fast simply stalls the tractor and nothing breaks. The tractor doesn't even generate enough power to snap the shear pin designed to protect a 50HP gearbox.
PS Lots of 2" saplings eaten with that setup.
Dan