Clutch replacement, was not expecting this

[BastropMetal]

I have a 2007 L3400 with about 800 hours on it. I bought it used ~2 years ago and have only put about 50 hours on it during that time. This is my first tractor.

Everything on it was working fine until about 6 months ago when I realized the PTO clutch would not engage. I did the adjustment in the manual where you adjust 3 bolts. That worked, however when I was doing that it seemed dirtier and rustier in there than I was anticipating.

Shortly thereafter the drive clutch started slipping badly. I adjusted the backlash on the pedal. I decided to try to replace the clutch myself. Splitting the tractor went relatively easy aside from a few of the bolts being quite difficult to access.

I split it open and was shocked how it looked. My friend who was helping me agreed that it wasnt great, but seemed to think "thats about what i would expect from a 17 year old tractor. " Surely this isnt normal, right?

This is a side by side of the old vs new clutch assembly.

 

[mcmxi]

I've never split a tractor, but I've seen quite a few restorations on YouTube of much older tractors than yours, 30 to 70 year old tractors, and can't remember seeing anything like that in terms of rust.

Could the tractor have been partially submerged in water at some point? Is there an obvious way for water to get into the clutch housing if the tractor were parked outside for years? The steel looks normal at the mating surface of the two halves.

 

[Henro]

Could the tractor have been partially submerged in water at some point? Is there an obvious way for water to get into the clutch housing if the tractor were parked outside for years? The steel looks normal at the mating surface of the two halves.

I think this is a key question. Had you been the only owner of the tractor, likely not to be expected the way your photos show.

BUT, you are not the only owner, and when buying used, you never know for sure what you are getting.

All you know for sure is what you see when you have a problem is what you have...not sure how to determine the reason with any certainty.

 

[BastropMetal]

Thanks for the replies.

I bought it used from the Kubota dealership. When i bought it the tractor had a new seat and new tires. I didnt think much of it at the time, but my father later said that it was odd that a tractor with only 750 hours on it would need all new tires. My interpretation of this is that it likely sat outside parked for a very long time.

There is a drain plug in the bottom right near the mating surface of the front and back half. There was so much debris in there that this was entirely covered, which likely accelerated this. I'm going to take the flywheel off, hopefully what is behind there isnt quite as concerning as what I saw here.

 

[mcmxi]

I bought it used from the Kubota dealership. When i bought it the tractor had a new seat and new tires. I didnt think much of it at the time, but my father later said that it was odd that a tractor with only 750 hours on it would need all new tires. My interpretation of this is that it likely sat outside parked for a very long time.

There is a drain plug in the bottom right near the mating surface of the front and back half. There was so much debris in there that this was entirely covered, which likely accelerated this. I'm going to take the flywheel off, hopefully what is behind there isnt quite as concerning as what I saw here.

17 year old tires are old tires regardless of how many hours are on them so it's not surprising that the tires were replaced.

https://www.hemmings.com/stories/how-can-you-preserve-your-tires-from-age-related-rot/

"Per the Akron, Ohio-based manufacturer, sidewall and tread weathering, often referred to as dry rot, is a result of the breakdown of compounds used to make the tire. Though a natural age-related process, several things can accelerate this, including UV exposure, environmental extremes (particularly a hot, dry climate), high ozone levels, underinflation, and lack of use. Tires benefit from regular exercise, and don’t like to remain stationary for extended lengths of time. According to South Bend, Indiana, (and online) vendor the Tire Rack, “The repeated stretching of the rubber compound actually helps deter cracks from forming.”

 

[Tarmy]

Sure looks like it sat in water…maybe look around other “concealed“ parts of the tractor for signs of a waterline or other signs someone replaced damaged electronics or similar.

Check that seal on the spline shaft while you are there…I wonder if there was any water that got past that into other parts of the engine…

Good luck OP…

 

[jyoutz]

I think I would repair this tractor, then sell it.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

been a submarine, for quite awhile...
you should check/ drain EVERY thing... diffs,tranny,pto,etc.

 

[jaxs]

Going by even distribution of built up rust mixed with clutch dust, I believe you will find evidence of coolant leak after flywheel is off. Most likely freeze plug.

 

[jaxs]

I think I would repair this tractor, then sell it.

Remind me to never buy anything from jyoutz.

 

[GeoHorn]

Yep…. plugged drain hole kept condensation and high-humidity in there. Wire brush… Ospho… and keep that drain open. Grease the splines and a new throw-out and pilot bearing should solve it for you. Don’t sell it after all THAT work

 

[D2Cat]

You have an unusual amount of rust for a 2007 model tractor. Perhaps you live near the coast and salt water has done it's job on it. (Look at that hammer head!)

Here's an example, this is a 1980 tractor. I bought it from a dealer (Bobcat, and this is a Deutz tractor someone traded in). I couldn't get the PTO to work. I eventually separated the tractor and discovered a part of the throw out bearing was missing and wouldn't allow the second stage to engage.

Nothing like what you're seeing.

 

[BastropMetal]

You have an unusual amount of rust for a 2007 model tractor. Perhaps you live near the coast and salt water has done it's job on it. (Look at that hammer head!)

Here's an example, this is a 1980 tractor. I bought it from a dealer (Bobcat, and this is a Deutz tractor someone traded in). I couldn't get the PTO to work. I eventually separated the tractor and discovered a part of the throw out bearing was missing and wouldn't allow the second stage to engage.

Nothing like what you're seeing.

Thanks for sharing those pictures. That was what I was hoping to see in there.

Yep…. plugged drain hole kept condensation and high-humidity in there. Wire brush… Ospho… and keep that drain open. Grease the splines and a new throw-out and pilot bearing should solve it for you. Don’t sell it after all THAT work

Earlier today I bought a large pack of wire brushes off amazon. I think I have a lot of that in my future unfortunately. Thank you for the Ospho comment. I was going to ask for a rust remover suggestion. However, when I look at the use instructions it says its a rust inhibitor. Is this something I should put on after I wire wheel it? Or do I use it to help get th rust off?

I'll be replacing the drain. I'm not sure that is the root cause of the issue, but its a cheap thing to replace.

I dont know if I believe in karma, or simply believe in not being shitty to others, but I'm not going to sell the tractor at this point. Fortunately I dont need this tractor for my livelihood. This will delay a few projects I'd like to use it for, but its not the end of the world. I'm just going to go through everything and get it right.

Going by even distribution of built up rust mixed with clutch dust, I believe you will find evidence of coolant leak after flywheel is off. Most likely freeze plug.

I didnt see any area that looked any wetter or rustier than other areas, but its hard to be sure. You might be right, but it wasnt obvious when I looked int here. Maybe I'll be able to tell better after I get everything cleaned up.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

You need top remove the flywheel and the bellhousing to inspect the freeze plugs, they are hidden.
I'll bet you have one seeping.
If they are all good, clean all the rust and debris off the inside, then use sealer on all mating surfaces, and make sure the split pin drain is clear and free.

 

[jyoutz]

Remind me to never buy anything from jyoutz.

I would disclose the issue, and that it had been repaired. And price accordingly. But I wouldn’t want to keep that unit long term.

 

[D2Cat]

Here's some pictures of what happens when a freeze (behind the bell housing) plug leaks.

I'll see if I can find the pictures of the freeze plug.

 

[D2Cat]

This is a freeze plug on the back side of the engine. Moisture seeped out and down into the bell housing causing all the damage in the other pictures.

 

[mcmxi]

Thank you for the Ospho comment. I was going to ask for a rust remover suggestion. However, when I look at the use instructions it says its a rust inhibitor. Is this something I should put on after I wire wheel it? Or do I use it to help get th rust off?

There are lots of forms of iron oxide, and Ospho chemically converts the common form of Fe2O3 to iron phospate (FePO4) that is more stable (hence the rust inhibitor claim). Typically you remove as much loose rust as possible, then coat with ospho, then paint. That's how we used it when I worked as a commercial diver and welder. It will turn iron oxide black or very dark when applied.

 

[mcmxi]

This is a freeze plug on the back side of the engine. Moisture seeped out and down into the bell housing causing all the damage in the other pictures.

The OP's tractor looks a lot worse than the photos you show. Intuitively you'd think that if engine coolant leaked past the freeze plug that the corrosion inhibitors would provide some amount of protection. But I suppose that if the coolant is water, or a lack of maintenance has diminished the beneficial properties of the coolant, that would increase the chances of a freeze plug leaking, and there wouldn't be much in the way of corrosion inhibitors present in any coolant that gets into the bell housing.

Is the inside of the bell housing painted at the factory? I would think that it would be.

Regardless, looking forward to seeing the finished repairs.

 

[GeoHorn]

Thanks for sharing those pictures. That was what I was hoping to see in there.



Earlier today I bought a large pack of wire brushes off amazon. I think I have a lot of that in my future unfortunately. Thank you for the Ospho comment. I was going to ask for a rust remover suggestion. However, when I look at the use instructions it says its a rust inhibitor. Is this something I should put on after I wire wheel it? Or do I use it to help get th rust off?

I'll be replacing the drain. I'm not sure that is the root cause of the issue, but its a cheap thing to replace.

I dont know if I believe in karma, or simply believe in not being shitty to others, but I'm not going to sell the tractor at this point. Fortunately I dont need this tractor for my livelihood. This will delay a few projects I'd like to use it for, but its not the end of the world. I'm just going to go through everything and get it right.



I didnt see any area that looked any wetter or rustier than other areas, but its hard to be sure. You might be right, but it wasnt obvious when I looked int here. Maybe I'll be able to tell better after I get everything cleaned up.

Ospho is not a rust “remover”… It’s a rust “conversion”. Use the wire wheels/brushes to knock off as much of the rust as possible. When you’ve removed as much mechanically as possible…Then paint the interior of the housings and mechanisms with Ospho (phosphoric acid) to “treat” the surface with a surface-conversion to Stop rust from progressing by converting the surface in a manner similar to anodizing or plating. I painted Ospho on some 14 ga. bare steel rectangular tubing which holds up a 14 X 44 foot steel overhead door which weighs over a ton…. which I wouldn’t care for it to fall, as you might imagine. That was 24 years ago and those are still Un-painted except for the Ospho…and are under a bldg eave…but directly exposed to the weather. They are still unpainted and yet, rust-free and doing the job.

I have several un-plated sets of heavy chain I use for tow-chains or tie-down ..one of them is 5/8” link which I call my “bull-dozer” chain…used outdoors and in the dirt etc … I had a 5-gal bucket I poured Ospho into….then lowered those bare steel chains into the Ospho. Years later, those chains are still rust-free.