Choosing between recommended oil weights

[TheOldHokie]

I keep it simple and run the same synthetic oil in five diesel engines. I just changed the oil on the F250 yesterday in preparation for a trip to WA state this Friday.

9000 SynShield® OTR Plus Full Synthetic 5W-40

SynShield® OTR Plus Full Synthetic 5W-40 | Schaeffer Oil

Supreme 9000™ Full Synthetic Oil 5W-40 is a premium quality, heavy-duty engine oil formulated to extend engine life, while providing for extended drain capability and improved fuel economy benefits.

www.schaefferoil.com

Oil has advanced significantly over the years, but I've read some articles that advise running the narrowest operating range possible for the given conditions. Basically, they've made the point that all of the additives that allow an oil to change viscosity over a wide temperature range are a detriment to oil performance. I ran 15W-40 in Hawaii in an F350 7.3L for that reason, and would run it here if not for the seasonal temperature ranges that are obviously much wider than Hawaii.

The only concern with wide range multigrades has been and still is permanent viscosity loss due to shearing of the VI additives. In the late 70's and early 80's that was a real concern. But base oil has advanced significantly and you can't write that off. Improvements in the viscosity index of modern synthetic base oils means the level of VI additives needed to achieve those wide spreads has gone way down while at the same time the shear resistance of those additives has gone way up.

Grades 0W40 and 5W40 synthetic are now proven performers and are OEM fills in many of the most severe applications on the road. Cummins/Dodge for example is now specifying 5W40 for all 2013 or newer 6.7L engines in areas where temps fall below 0F. SAE 15W40 is still recommended for 2018 or older engines and SAE 10W30 should be used in 2019 or newer engines. SAE 15W40 cannot be used at any temperature in 2019 or newer engines.

In a 2500 max RPM tractor engine with 400 hour OCI there should be zero concern about shear down. If you have any doubts or concerns Blackstone can give you the exact number for your tractor and your usage. I have close to 150 hours on the first OCI in my L3901. I will have that number for you in another 12 months

Dan

 

[mcmxi]

Improvements in the viscosity index of modern synthetic base oils means the level of VI additives needed to achieve those wide spreads has gone way down while at the same time the shear resistance of those additives has gone way up.

Excellent information so thanks for that. I haven' t kept up with oils over the past decade or so and I appreciate the update re any downsides (or lack thereof) with running oils intended/optimized for wide temperature swings.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Excellent information so thanks for that. I haven' t kept up with oils over the past decade or so and I appreciate the update re any downsides (or lack thereof) with running oils intended/optimized for wide temperature swings.

You are more than welcome.

Dan

 

[PaulL]

My L4701 manual says that for my temperature range I can run either at 15W-40 or 10W-30 multi grade. Im in Western KY and I would say I operate fairly equal amounts between hot and cold, not that we see super extremes in either direction.

This is my first DPF tractor, so other than the CJ-4 designation- what grade are folks using given the choice?

Also, I'm struggling to find the oil filter part number. any ideas where I could locate that online not being at my tractor right now

Thanks in advance!

I'm simple on these things. I go to my Kubota dealer, and buy the Kubota oil they're selling. They're in your area, they know what oil you need. I bought Kubota oil yesterday in my dealer. They had 15w-40 diesel. It's appropriate to my climate conditions. It cost about the same as branded oil from a box store. And it was easy to get at the same time as the filters and some UDT.

 

[hagrid]

If only the American Petroleum Institute and engine manufacturers could come up with some simplified code, a designation perhaps, to help consumers choose the correct lubricant for their application.


Alas...

 

[TheOldHokie]

If only the American Petroleum Institute and engine manufacturers could come up with some simplified code, a designation perhaps, to help consumers choose the correct lubricant for their application.


Alas...

That has been considered. Keep in mind that was the original rational for this system.

Getting rid of numbers for grade labels would help but I suspect it would take several generations of consumers to purge the taint.

Dan

 

[Joisey]

The only concern with wide range multigrades has been and still is permanent viscosity loss due to shearing of the VI additives. In the late 70's and early 80's that was a real concern. But base oil has advanced significantly and you can't write that off. Improvements in the viscosity index of modern synthetic base oils means the level of VI additives needed to achieve those wide spreads has gone way down while at the same time the shear resistance of those additives has gone way up.

Grades 0W40 and 5W40 synthetic are now proven performers and are OEM fills in many of the most severe applications on the road. Cummins/Dodge for example is now specifying 5W40 for all 2013 or newer 6.7L engines in areas where temps fall below 0F. SAE 15W40 is still recommended for 2018 or older engines and SAE 10W30 should be used in 2019 or newer engines. SAE 15W40 cannot be used at any temperature in 2019 or newer engines.

In a 2500 max RPM tractor engine with 400 hour OCI there should be zero concern about shear down. If you have any doubts or concerns Blackstone can give you the exact number for your tractor and your usage. I have close to 150 hours on the first OCI in my L3901. I will have that number for you in another 12 months

Dan

I have noticed an initial "additive burn off" when using Amsoil synthetic 0W20 oil in my Toyota. At first I thought I had an oil burning issue, but after seven oil changes at 6K mile intervals, once the initial one pint of "additive burn off" at about 500 miles on the new oil change, the oil level is just a pint low. The NOACK volatility is listed at 8.5%, which comes out to a bit over 16 ounces in a 6.2 quart fill, more or less. The replacement pint of oil never seems to show a drop in level, due to the volatility being equal to only 1.4 ounces. Other than that, the truck uses zero oil between changes, even when towing a trailer thru WV "hills" @3800rpm.

 

[OlFerguson]

B7152 Baldwin should work for l4701dt
As for oil, I just typically stick with whatever the manual recommends. You can deviate depending what climates your facing ,just do your research. Best of luck.

 

[Redhawk454]

The only concern with wide range multigrades has been and still is permanent viscosity loss due to shearing of the VI additives. In the late 70's and early 80's that was a real concern. But base oil has advanced significantly and you can't write that off. Improvements in the viscosity index of modern synthetic base oils means the level of VI additives needed to achieve those wide spreads has gone way down while at the same time the shear resistance of those additives has gone way up.

Grades 0W40 and 5W40 synthetic are now proven performers and are OEM fills in many of the most severe applications on the road. Cummins/Dodge for example is now specifying 5W40 for all 2013 or newer 6.7L engines in areas where temps fall below 0F. SAE 15W40 is still recommended for 2018 or older engines and SAE 10W30 should be used in 2019 or newer engines. SAE 15W40 cannot be used at any temperature in 2019 or newer engines.

In a 2500 max RPM tractor engine with 400 hour OCI there should be zero concern about shear down. If you have any doubts or concerns Blackstone can give you the exact number for your tractor and your usage. I have close to 150 hours on the first OCI in my L3901. I will have that number for you in another 12 months

Dan

They recommend the 10w-30 on the 2019 and newer 6.7 Cummins because of CAFE credits and such. Has nothing to do with engineering or tighter tolerances.. most 10w30 diesel oil doesn’t have as much zinc or phosphorus when compared to 15w-40 or 5w-40

VOA’s on rotella t5 10w-30 show that it has less then 1,100 ppm of zinc (t6 5w-40 has 1,200 ppm zinc as an example)

and rotella t5 10w-30 has no moly in it

I can’t help but feel 10w-30 is government motor oil..

10w-30 on a 6.7 SUCKS when cold cranking south of 0 degrees, so they recommend 5w-40 for those cold cranks but the 10w-30 recommendation is about pleasing the epa..



and yes, 15w-40 can not be run in 2019 and newer 6.7’s because of the valve train

I run 5w-40 in my 2022, it provides better protection and I’ll take that over the infinitesimal gain in fuel economy..

you can run 5w-40 year round, just look at

RAMS TSB on the issue.

 

[TheOldHokie]

They recommend the 10w-30 on the 2019 and newer 6.7 Cummins because of CAFE credits and such. Has nothing to do with engineering or tighter tolerances.. most 10w30 diesel oil doesn’t have as much zinc or phosphorus when compared to 15w-40 or 5w-40

VOA’s on rotella t5 10w-30 show that it has less then 1,100 ppm of zinc (t6 5w-40 has 1,200 ppm zinc as an example)

and rotella t5 10w-30 has no moly in it

I can’t help but feel 10w-30 is government motor oil..

10w-30 on a 6.7 SUCKS when cold cranking south of 0 degrees, so they recommend 5w-40 for those cold cranks but the 10w-30 recommendation is about pleasing the epa..



and yes, 15w-40 can not be run in 2019 and newer 6.7’s because of the valve train

I run 5w-40 in my 2022, it provides better protection and I’ll take that over the infinitesimal gain in fuel economy..

you can run 5w-40 year round, just look at

RAMS TSB on the issue.

Lets get real. The level of zinc in modern formulations that now employ other ashless antiwear compounds is pretty meaningless. And even without that change in formulary the difference of 1100 versus 1200 PPM is equally meaningless.

Grade 10W30 in the appropriate API service category has been Kubota's primary reccomendation for decades and works just fine. It has NOTHING to do with CAFE standards and everything to do with providing good flow at cold startup while maintaining adequate oil film thickness at operating temperature. A modern 5W40 gets you similar cold startup performance and a little thicker oil film at operating temperatures.

Dan

 

[Biker1mike]

Minor clarification on analysis. I am sure the numbers are correct, just a methodology typo.
" VOA’s on rotella t5 10w-30 show that it has less then 1,100 ppm of zinc "

VOA is Volatile Organic Analysis. Zinc is not a volatile organic.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Minor clarification on analysis. I am sure the numbers are correct, just a methodology typo.
" VOA’s on rotella t5 10w-30 show that it has less then 1,100 ppm of zinc "

VOA is Volatile Organic Analysis. Zinc is not a volatile organic.

In this context VOA is Virgin Oil Analysis. As opposed to UOA which is Used Oil Anslysis.

Both use a mixture of standard ASTM quantitative and qualitative test methods

Dan

 

[Biker1mike]

In this context VOA is Virgin Oil Analysis. As opposed to UOA which is Used Oil Anslysis.

Both use a mixture of standard ASTM quantitative and qualitative test methods

Dan

Dan,
Thank you for the correction !
Jeese, 40 years of environmental and semiconductor chemistry and I am yet to learn another acronym. Very humbling to say the least.
Without stealing the thread. Many, many years this would have had me buying several rounds and admitting a gross error during an end of the week remediation session. New day HR has no idea how a senior tech admitting an error off site built a great team.

BTW: my very old 'B' is just happy to have fresh oil !