Changed working starter for reduction starter on 3 cylinder Engine

[JayBee]

Over the last few years was having trouble starting the old beast (G5200). took a lot of slow cranking, battery seemed to be always semi-flat when I needed to use it. I decided to change the "working" starter based on some reviews I read- well its the best thing ever! Cranks even on a low battery in a few seconds- unbelievable.

I wanted to put it out there, are there other examples of things we have put up with for too long, the issue never quite right but still kind of working(kubota reliability) ....and then, we upgrade some parts and the issue goes away.

My other example is water pump, no leaks, some flow in the radiator, but she gets warm to hot...changed the "working" water pump, no more cooling issues ?

 

[claya1]

Over the last few years was having trouble starting the old beast (G5200). took a lot of slow cranking, battery seemed to be always semi-flat when I needed to use it. I decided to change the "working" starter based on some reviews I read- well its the best thing ever!

My L235 also cranks very slow. If the starter spins too slow, and is too hot (smokes) on my tractor, are the windings cooked? The + cable from the solenoid is also really hot. I see there are reduction geared starters available, (at about 1/2 the cost) and the standard direct drive. Which is the better choice for a L235? Can I fit a reduction gear in the space?

 

[GreensvilleJay]

Replace BOTH big battery cables and CLEAN the connections. A HOT cable indicated it's 'high' resistance and when asked to draw 100s of amps through it, it'll heat up hotter than the sun......
A properly sized battery cable in new condition will NOT get HOT, Hot or even WARM..providing connections are clean and solid.
As for type of starter.the OEM one is, well, OEM and was designed to be used for the tractor. Any gear reduction starter may work fine as diesels don't have distributors to generate spark. Have no idea if it'll 'fit' but IF the seller says it will,get it in writing with a note saying you CAN return if it doesn't fit. Most (all ? ) electrical items are 'no return'....even if not used.

 

[claya1]

Replace BOTH big battery cables and CLEAN the connections. A HOT cable indicated it's 'high' resistance and when asked to draw 100s of amps through it, it'll heat up hotter than the sun......
A properly sized battery cable in new condition will NOT get HOT, Hot or even WARM..providing connections are clean and solid.
As for type of starter.the OEM one is, well, OEM and was designed to be used for the tractor. Any gear reduction starter may work fine as diesels don't have distributors to generate spark. Have no idea if it'll 'fit' but IF the seller says it will,get it in writing with a note saying you CAN return if it doesn't fit. Most (all ? ) electrical items are 'no return'....even if not used.

Battery cable was NOT hot. They both are relatively new cables. It was the short + wire from the solenoid to the starter that was hot. (And the motor case). Replacing the battery with a brand new one, AND using compression release, the starter still spins way too slow. I fear the starter windings are cooked. Most of the smoke has leaked out . Reduction gear starters are lower speed vs higher torque, right?So not sure the benefit on this tractor. They certainly are lower cost.

 

[Russell King]

The reduction gear starter should make the engine spin and start easier.

A rebuilt starter of the same style as or would probably help but not as much.

I would get one of the gear reduction ones and try it

 

[lugbolt]

gear reduction starters reduce the amount of amperage needed to sufficiently crank the engine over. May not turn as fast, but it will turn easier. Almost all new vehicles use them now. They also tend to last a lot longer than direct drive starters.

There are two downsides to the gear reduction. One, they're a little bit more expensive. Two, if you fill a cylinder with a liquid, the chances of bending a rod are MUCH higher.

WAAAAY back in the day, all automotive manufacturers used direct drive starters. Except Chrysler. The Chrysler's always turned over slower, but they always turned over. The starter reduction plus the reduction between the starter drive gear and the flywheel/flexplate were such that they had a TON of torque, which was needed on the big 426's and 440's for sure.

 

[JayBee]

I agree with comments for upgrading to decent battery cables- about 2 years prior to replacing starter (blue in photo). I believe the original starter was very tired and the engine too needing more cranking power than when brand new- for example my GR2120 starts almost instantly with a traditional non-reduction starter. G5200 still needs a few cranks(1-3seconds) - this where i found the advantage of the reduction starter for the older machine.

...by the way noticed reduction starters on some new tractors ....while browsing....

 

[GreensvilleJay]

re: you said, 1st... , the + cable from the solenoid is also really hot. then said NOT hot. I've attached the L235 starter drawing from 'parts'. Looks like battery +ve goes directly to it, and a small 'control' wire from key start).
Since the case was 'hot', odds are you've 'smoked' the armature, which is NLA,so you'll have to buy a new starter, your choice but I'd also replace all the cables.A 'smoking' starter draws 100s of amps and can damage the cables. You can't see that damage.

 

[claya1]

re: you said, 1st... , the + cable from the solenoid is also really hot. then said NOT hot. I've attached the L235 starter drawing from 'parts'.

The drawing does not match the actual starter. There is a very short + cable between the starter & solenoid + terminal. That is the short cable getting hot. Agreed, the starter is cooked. New one ordered. Thanks for everyones quick responses.

My recently hired farm hand likes to run the starter a long time instead of letting the glow plugs warm up enough, and do thier job.