Caroni TM1900 Flail Mower...

[BotaDriver]

We purchased a TM1900 flail mower a while back and wow were the reviews wrong. Nobody in their right mind would give this unit, as it comes from the factory, a positive review. The RCR1860 landpride cutter runs circles around the flail.

The TM1900 doesn't cut anywhere near the quality of the RCR1860 -- Including bashing the 2" stuff. And to get the TM1900 to cut anything, you need to be in 3rd gear, no faster -- and that's at full PTO RPM. Didn't even take 2 minutes with the TM1900 before it was ready to go back to ag supply. The RCR1860 can be run at 2,000 engine RPMs (2450rpm is 540 PTO) and still give a quality cut in 7th gear (that's about 3x the travel speed as 3rd gear)

Wanting the cutter to work, I pulled off a set of the TM1900 blades and spec'd them with the micrometer. I then pulled up Flail Master's catalog and found the only duck-foot style blade they make that will fit the caroni (needs a 1/2" x 1" slot to fit the caroni shackle). After installing them, it's a night and day difference. About the only thing the Y blades are good for is a paper weight.

The TM1900 can now be used to provide a cut superior to that of any finishing mower, and do so as fast as 6th gear (for glass smooth, 5th is a better choice). For those who say the Y blades are for "rough" stuff -- While you may be able to use them ON rough stuff, you won't get anywhere near the cut that the RCR1860 can deliver (it'll do the occasional 3" as well).

The duck-foot style blade is a 'finishing' style blade and I would not use it where anything larger than 1" sticks are present - that includes rocks--unless you want to change blades mid-season.

A few days ago seemed to be the perfect day for mowing as everyone mowed their 'grass' -- the neighbors have zero turns, standard riding mowers, and push mowers, and the duck-footed caroni provided the superior cut - hands down!

 

[Bulldog]

How about some pictures of the blades you're talking about. I have a boom mower with flail head and it has the "Y" style blades. You're right, it's a very slow go if you want any kind of quality cut. I don't know if I can change mine to a different style but I would like to see what you're talking about. Thanks

 

[BotaDriver]

http://flailmaster.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/FlailMaster_Catalog.pdf

Page 28 of PDF, Page 22 as printed in catalog, part DFM-2042

If this image loads, it looks almost identical to this blade except that the mounting hole is 1/2 x 1 vs the 1/2 x 3/4 that's pictured.

 

[sheepfarmer]

I just got a TM1600 with the brush blades, and it doesn't cut pasture all that beautifully, but then the grass was 1 to 2 feet tall when I got to it, and I have the skids down almost as far as they will go so the grass is left about 6 inches long. It gets the job done. I have some brush to try it on next. The blades it came with are in two parts, kind of Y shaped. I could have ordered it with a grass blade. Which did yours come with?

Edit:
I just looked at their (Tractor Tools Direct) website and the blades for grass looks more like your duck footed ones. So if mowing lawn or smooth pasture is the application, that would be the better ordering choice. I just have too much in the way of hidden stumps, brambles, etc so I didn't chance the grass blades. Good to know that I could change them out if I get rid of the brush.

 

[BotaDriver]

I made a pass in 4th gear in 2' tall pasture and it cut it just as nice as it did the stuff that was only 6" tall. These blades are a small fraction of an inch longer (they actually spec shorter on paper, but the centrifugal force combined with their scoop shape that creates a slight suction angles them--think of an L and rotate it clockwise to the 2 o clock position and it's taller when measured at the hypotenuse).

As far as its brush capabilities with the rough cut Y blades (should be the same ones on the TM1600 from factory) -- The standard rotary bush-hog wins hands down. I think a better comparison would be if the unit had the heavy-duty flail hammers (don't think these caronis are beast enough for them--like a HD alamo or mott). I just don't see those Y blades blades being any match for the power contained in a 5' diameter spinning hog with 1/2" steel blades and a tip speed of 18,000 feet per minute....and by "hog" I mean the RCR1860. With the hog on, I have no problem feeding it baseball sized rocks. It just smashes them into really small rock fragments. I would not hit a rock half the size with the Y blade caroni. I just don't see it fairing too well. And if a blade pair gets damaged, it'll probably be noticed by what's not being cut.

With the hog I'd swap out blades once a year for the sharpened set, and every time I did I cannot believe just how dull they were--nothing left of what I'd call an edge. It would still cut your typical grass without issue.

I honestly do not see how they sell the TM1900 in the configuration they do. It gets a solid F -- SOLID F. The only thing it has going for it is that it doesn't stir up the dust, but that really doesn't matter since it doesn't cut very well. It is not in any way a replacement for a rotary cutter rated at 2" thick brush. That leaves it as a finish mower, which it does a decent job at with blades that you must purchase extra from somewhere other than where the mower unit is purchased. I'm sure it would be even better if it had a finishing drum in it with twice the number of blade mounting points. Which brings me back to my point, the TM1900 as it comes from the factory is worthless.

If I didn't already have the RCR1860, and the TM1900 was purchased as the 2" brush cutter, I'd be very upset. A 2" capable "bush-hog" replacement it is not.

 

[sheepfarmer]

I didn't realize the RCR was a brush hog, so we are comparing apples and oranges in a way. I think the reasons one would choose a flail over a brush hog are varied. I wanted one instead of a brush hog because of the shorter footprint of the whole rig. I have lots of trees to maneuver around and limited storage space. They are somewhat less likely to throw rocks into"low earth orbit". I didn't expect the performance of a lawn mower, so I am not unhappy.

Was the Caroni represented to you as being able to cut 2" thick branches? I would somehow not expect it to be able to do that with any type of blade, although at the right angle it might be able to wear it down.

As far as Caroni selling something that has to be modified to work right, that is the fault of the dealer that you bought yours from. Both types of blade are equally available on the Caroni flails at no difference in price. You shouldn't have had to change yours out right out of the box. The outfit I ordered mine from asked me very carefully about my application before I picked the brush blades and explained the pros and cons. They carry both kinds of blades for replacement. I knew there would be a tradeoff when cutting grass, and that it wold be less capable of really heavy stuff that you'd get a big brush hog for. I think another OTT user said optimally one would clear land first with a hog and then use a flail.

I just finished mowing down a brushy area, saplings, wild blackberry, some kind of 6 foot weed, Virginia creeper etc. and was satisfied with how it did. As far as I can tell the occasional stump, buried log that I hit didn't destroy anything, but it was dark when I quit and I didn't look at the blades. Time will tell if I am still satisfied with the various compromises.

 

[Tallahassee Kubota Man]

Botadriver, how does this blade compare to what the mower came with or the ones you have now? This is a link to AGS's listed replacement blade for the TM 1900.

http://www.agrisupply.com/type-rotor-blade-caroni-flail-mower/p/30838/

 

[sheepfarmer]

That is the type B that mine came with, it is one half of a pair that is held on each shackle. The kind for grass is type P.

http://tractortoolsdirect.com/showroom/caroni-flail-mower/#.VaK7LYy3PMI

Caroni also offers two versions of the flails, home use and commercial use. I have the "commercial use" one. That might be another reason bota driver is u happy with his.

 

[BotaDriver]

Botadriver, how does this blade compare to what the mower came with or the ones you have now? This is a link to AGS's listed replacement blade for the TM 1900.

http://www.agrisupply.com/type-rotor-blade-caroni-flail-mower/p/30838/

I believe those are the factory blades. With 2 of them on a shackle back to back, they make an inverted Y shape. Those are the ones I feel to be worthless.

 

[Tallahassee Kubota Man]

That is the type B that mine came with, it is one half of a pair that is held on each shackle. The kind for grass is type P.

http://tractortoolsdirect.com/showroom/caroni-flail-mower/#.VaK7LYy3PMI

Caroni also offers two versions of the flails, home use and commercial use. I have the "commercial use" one. That might be another reason bota driver is u happy with his.

Interesting that the "P" model is $200 more than the "B" model. Could the blades be that different in price?

 

[BotaDriver]

I bet they include both blades -- The P blades are exactly like what I got from FlailMaster - Except they were 4$ ea and it uses 28 of them. Not sure where the other $100 comes from they're charging, perhaps installation? Need a 1/2 x 1" slot to get on the factory shackle. It's not rocket science and knowing the hole slot size is pretty much all you need. Width of the cutting area -- the more the better - 2.7" wide or larger.

 

[sheepfarmer]

Interesting...the person at Tractor Tools that I talked to said I could get replacement blades and belts in a bunch of local places, no worries about getting them from Italy etc. However I have a dim memory of reading somewhere that the drum is balanced for the blades before being sent out, but I can't remember if it was a Caroni drum or where I read it, maybe TBN. I bought 6 or 8 spare blades, so it seems as though as soon as you start having to change one the balance would get off. Also in the picture for that link above there is a black thing on the shaft of the P drum that is not on the other one. I have some other questions to ask Pat (nice guy) at Tractor tools, so I'll ask him if there is anything different about the two drums besides the blades, or if the blades are just more expensive.

 

[Bulldog]

My boom mower can be reversed. In the manual it say forward is for brush and reverse is for grass. I've tried it both ways and it does make a difference. Which direction do the Caroni mowers turn?

 

[sheepfarmer]

Bulldog, sorry for stupid question, but forward relative to what? And how do you tell? Needless to say if I am not on the tractor it doesn't run...

 

[ShaunBlake]

Bulldog, sorry for stupid question, but forward relative to what? And how do you tell? Needless to say if I am not on the tractor it doesn't run...

So by inference, we are to understand that any time you are on the tractor, it is running, right?

 

[ShaunBlake]

...
I have a dim memory of reading somewhere that the drum is balanced for the blades before being sent out, but I can't remember if it was a Caroni drum or where I read it, maybe TBN. I bought 6 or 8 spare blades, so it seems as though as soon as you start having to change one the balance would get off...

Good point! With the mass of the mower, should you have to add a blade a year or so from now, the difference in weight of the new cutter, relative to the one that was replaced, would be minuscule.

Of course, I know squat about them, having only discovered them in this forum with comments from folks who were drooling or crowing over them.

 

[BotaDriver]

The drum should be balanced period. It should not matter if you change all blades at the same time to a blade of any weight. The balance should still be maintained. 28 mounting points = 7 per row, and 4 rows. Now if you have aftermarket blades and swap out just a few, if they don't weigh the same there could be an issue with balance!

As far as rotation of the mower, it is similar to a reverse tine tiller. It cuts the opposite way of wheel travel.

As to the P rotor having something different than the B, I believe you'll find them to be the exact same with the only difference being the blades that hang from the shackles.

 

[Bulldog]

Bulldog, sorry for stupid question, but forward relative to what? And how do you tell? Needless to say if I am not on the tractor it doesn't run...

I guess that wasn't very clear. My mower (hydraulic drive) can turn either direction. My blades are sharp on both sides and I can run it turning the same direction I'm traveling or I can reverse it and make it turn backwards to the way I travel. I guess look at it like a tiller, forward or reverse if that makes since.

 

[sheepfarmer]

I checked with the folks where I got my flail, Tractor Tools Direct, and if we define forward as the drum rotating in the same direction as the wheels on the tractor, the flail drum rotates in the reverse direction. (These flails can also be mounted on the front of the tractor, not sure if the direction of rotation is maintained when it is turned around?)

There is no difference in the drums of those flails outfitted with brush blades versus grass blades, and no problem swapping sets of one type for the other. The difference in cost is solely due to the difference in price of the blades. They can be ordered from the factory with either type mounted.

Shaun you got me! What I really meant was I couldn't get off the tractor and look to see which way the drum was rotating, without the pto shutting off, even if I were so foolish as to get close enough to see the drum go round at idle

 

[ShaunBlake]

I checked with the folks where I got my flail, Tractor Tools Direct, and if we define forward as the drum rotating in the same direction as the wheels on the tractor, the flail drum rotates in the reverse direction...

I'm glad you were the first one to put it in the simplest, clearest terms. Hopefully we'll always refer to "forward" and "reverse" for implements like tillers and such in relation to the turning of the drive wheels.

Although it seems obvious, there are certain folk who are extremely literal and analytical who might think that a blade turning the opposite direction of the wheels would be pushing the material toward the front of the tractor, so that might be what is meant by "forward". (Or perhaps there's only one who might think that, but I can assure you that there is one! )