Caroni Flail mowers: changing belts and tensioning?

[sheepfarmer]

I have a Caroni TM1600BSC flail that is great for mowing pastures. Was all set to take out my aggressions on some wild rose bushes etc and after my usual fight with hooking up the PTO thought I should check the tension on the belts.

First you should know that the manual only says adjust the tension. No criteria. There is a nut on a threaded knob that increases/decreases the length of a spring. A guy on TBN mentioned after a bunch of broken belts and trial and error that he'd hit a good tension, and he'd post a picture but he didn't.
I had asked the dealer Tractor Tools Direct for some hints when I bought it, but they were kind of vague. On my Ingersoll you tighten the belt until the space between the wire coil is two wire diameters, but that seemed a bit much here. See picture. As I understand it, too loose and the belt slips, too tight and it can't slip to protect the PTO.

So anyone with a Caroni got any hints?

 

[sheepfarmer]

Second question: I found that one of the belts had a healthy crack in it and some of the others had small cracks in them. It was by luck I saw that one since it was the middle belt of 3. So how long do you run a belt timewise and also with small cracks? I think that big one is a deal breaker.

Does anyone in the Lansing area know of a good local source of belts? When I bought it I was assured I didn't have to get belts from Italy, and in fact from their website Everything Attachments has them in stock, but I'd just as soon go get 3 tomorrow and get on with my mowing. The part no. is 2142, and what it says on the belt is m.e.c. V-belt R BK43 17X1092 c.s.i. oil stat 0176 31.

Can anyone explain the parameters listed and which ones are important if I am substituting some other brand?

 

[D2Cat]

Sheepfarmer, I think what you need based on the 17x1072 number, that is mm. So 17mm = .669 which would be a 5/8" wide belt. Also called a "B" belt. The 1072 is the length in mm. so that is 42.992 length.

If you find a 43" belt I'd say that would fit fine, you have the idle spring to adjust for a fine fit also.

I'd suggest take the belts off and take the best one with you. Any automotive supply like NAPA, O'Reilly etc will have them, or can order them. Just get three so they start out the same and stretch the same.

 

[Tughill Tom]

D2Cat is correct, you'll need an B-43 belt, I would run a BX-43 which a notched belt which helps with heat distribution of the belts them self, which is what caused the cracking.
You should be able to source them locally at an industrial supply house like W.W.Grainger

 

[sheepfarmer]

My computer stalled before I got to question number 3....D2 I thought I should get one off and take it with me, in case Napa or similar have ok belts, and it was challenging...

I loosened the spring thing as far as it would go without taking the nut off and slid the outer belt off the tensioning wheel, but it turns out getting the belt out of the grooves is easier said than done. I got it off turning the flail cylinder at the same time wedging a screw driver under the belt to pry it up over the lip of the groove.

So I am wondering if there are any tricks to help get the next two off and then their new stiff replacements on? Assuming I find them. It is shaping up to be a real bugger

 

[sheepfarmer]

Thanks Tughill, so on mine the K stands for? The compartment that they are in had a lot of grease and belt dust all over, is this normal? There are 5 zerks on that end of the flail, I may have overdone it. Do those other hyroglyphics mean grease resistant?

 

[D2Cat]

I think you should be able to get the threaded rod that the spring goes through loose enough to actually get the spring out of the hole one one end. That would get the idler pulley totally out of the way.

Sometimes, if you had a "monkey wrench" you could open the jaws so they fit over the piece the idler pulley is attached to and then by pulling up on the wrench handle get the idler farther back and the belts should come off.

Once you have the outside belt off you will need to get the second belt to go over the pulley so it will be in the "outside pulley, where you just removed that belt", then remove it from there like you did the first one. Kind of step by step. Then do the same process for the third belt. Reverse the process for installing the new belts.

Using your flat screwdriver as a pry tool is fine, just be real careful to not get you finger under any pressure points.

If you're not sure or confident about the process you might ask your neighbor, "mr. farmer" to coach you through it!!

 

[Tughill Tom]

So, to my understanding the "K" is an EU thing to make them different then the US. The belt dust is normal, but you'll see more with a smooth belt then a notched belt. All the other numbers are the Manf. model #'s

All belt are grease resistant to an point.

 

[D2Cat]

The "K" may be for kevlar. And ya, you probably over greased. But that's ok it just makes a mess. But now that you see how it all works less grease would be better.

 

[Sammy3700]

Check Agri Supply they’re local to us they carry Caroni equipment and do ship any where. Probably have what you need in stock.

 

[Dave_eng]

Belt manufacturers have two numbering systems. A universal one such as B43 and then a more complicated number unique to say Dayco.

The other key piece of info is that the letter "P" such as BP43 denotes a belt with Kevlar which will be a much stronger and longer lasting one.

$15 on Amazon gets you a Dayco BP43
https://www.amazon.com/Dayco-BP43-S...pID=31Xma46F7uL&preST=_SY300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch

You will see D & D belts advertised at much less cost but twice this year I have ordered BP158 belts and was delivered B158.

Belts running on the same drive should be all bought at the same time and replaced as a set.

A few years ago, you would have ordered a matched set but I think manufacturing tolerances have improved so, as long as all belts are bought at the same time from the same manufacturer ,you will be OK.

As far as tensioning in your setup, Having some spring left in the setup would be best. If the belt drive has no give in it as provided by a spring, you risk breaking it under shock loads. The pto protection is in the shear bolt. Not the belts.

Youtube has good instructional video's to help you determine your belt length and width.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kYLYrw0gUE&t=12s

Dave

 

[Daren Todd]

If belts run side by side in the same exact location. Then replace all of them at the same time as others have stated. Also make sure they are the same exact length. This is why I like to buy belts locally. Belts will very slightly in there length. If ones a hair shorter, then that belt will bear the brunt of the work load.

 

[sheepfarmer]

Thanks guys, I'll try a couple of the local suppliers this afternoon, and let you know what I can find. D2 I dunno about a coach but a second pair of hands preferably stronger than mine would be helpful. Dave, one of the things I am concerned about is this rig does not have a slip clutch and as far as I know, no shear bolts When I bought it I didn't know about such things

 

[BAP]

When you go after your belts, tell them that you want a “Matched Set”. A good parts person will know what that means. A matched set will be exactly the same length on all the belts so they carry the load equally.

 

[Yooper]

BAP beat me to it. Very important! I looked at McMaster Carr, but their matched sets start at 45".

 

[sheepfarmer]

Ok, so here is how it went:

In short, the most important piece of advice given above was to keep a set of spares on hand! Or at least check the condition of your belts before you put your flail away in the fall, and order new ones then.

1. measured belt per video and outside circumference was around 46 1/4 some odd inches, the 43 in BK 43 refers to the inner circumference. 11/16 wide (specs turn out to be 21/32)

2. my originals were Kevlar belts, as determined by Edwards guys below.

3. I went first to Edwards Industrial in Lansing which specializes in belts. Very nice very helpful, said they had that size in non Kevlar, but that they wouldn't last. Would do in a pinch. Said for my application I needed Kevlars. They could order from warehouse, but would take about 10 days. They called a few places, found one place with one and another place with two, not the same kind, and looked on the internet for me, offered me water bottles (it was hot) and were otherwise as helpful as could be.

4. Next tried Grainger, no luck.

5. Tried Napa, no luck, could order.

6. Called Tractor Tools Direct since they said I should be able to find locally, and person that answered the phone said I needed Jason in parts, but he thought there was a Gates belt that would do. Jason was at lunch, left message to call back, but didn't happen.

7. Tried O'Reilly and they had one, and helpful clerk called two other stores in Lansing that had one each, and he had them brought to that store by 5:30. Gates B43 kevlar, serial numbers and product id's all matched, so as close to a matched set as I could get. So I got 3 the same day, but it would have been easier to plan ahead and order them. Cost $58 total.

8. Jason called back two days later and left a message that said that it sounded like I should use their internet site and order a set of 3 belts, they were OEM from Italy, best quality, and they are $81 no additional charge for shipping.

9. The Edwards guys found a bunch of suppliers on the internet with cheaper belts, no telling about quality.

10. I installed the Gates belts, ran them for about two hours, retensioned, and then ran again the other day for another couple hours. So far perfectly satisfied with them.

As far as installation goes, here are my hints:

1. Unscrew the nut on the tensioning rod as far as it will go but don't take it off!!!
2. The lever arm for the tensioning spool has a hole in the end where the spring attaches. Thread a piece of baling twine through it and tie a knot to form a loop a little shorter than the distance to a hole in the flail housing. Use a long screwdriver as a lever arm to pull on loop, inserting the tip into the hole in the housing. See picture. Invite young neighbor kid to hold screwdriver in place. With the tensioning spool held out of the way it is relatively easy to walk the belts from the outer grooves to the inner grooves by rotating the drum or the pulleys.

Thanks everyone, I learned a lot

 

[D2Cat]

Good that you got it all back together and no pinched fingers. I'd suggest checking your manual to be sure you're not greasing too much. Might have been the cause of some belt deterioration.

 

[sheepfarmer]

The two zerks inside the cover that grease the tensioner probably did not get too much.
However on the one that looks like it greases the shaft from the pto and gear box to the pulley maybe I did. Worried that some kind of ring that is supposed to keep grease in the compartment around the shaft lets it come through to where the belts are. I cleaned everything up before I put the new belts on, and at the recheck it was all messy again. There is nothing faintly helpful in the manual, just a sticker pointing to the zerk that says "Graso"

 

[JustTheDad]

Was searching for a replacement spring for this mower and found this thread. No spring help, but Vbelts4less dot com has a belt 5L460 that works well. Don't believe they're Kevlar for under $5. They also have a cogged version that I never tried. If you want to have some spares. Kevlar versions are about $10 B43K