Cannot Install B7100 Fuel Filter

[NMC_EXP]

Greetings

Trying to install a new fuel filter element on a B7100. This is the sediment bowl type with a replaceable paper element.

The new Kubota element appears to be too tall. Started off with the element in the bowl/canister. With the element bottomed out in the filter canister there was at least a 1/8" gap between the removable retaining ring and the threads on the fixed filter base.

Next I took the element out of the bowl and forced the filter upwards and seated it on the fitting in the filter base. Then I installed the bowl over the element. This reduced the gap. By forcing the filter canister/bowl up with one hand I can get the retaining ring to just touch the threaded base but not close enough to engage the threads.

I'm forcing the assembly up hard enough to crush/distort the paper element. The element that I removed appeared to be distorted the same way.

In the articles section there is a section on fuel filters. The author said:

" I have seen Kubota fuel filters jammed so hard into the sediment bowls that the filter breaks apart trying to remove them! Under the filter will be a small spring. Make sure it’s replaced when reinstalling the new filter."

This sediment bowl has a metal plate in the bottom but no spring that I can see or feel. Could this be part of the problem?

My frustration meter is nearly pegged and I'm about to take a pry bar to the sediment bowl to force it up. Rather than breaking the bowl or crushing the filter element, I could use some help before I go Neanderthal on this thing.

Thanks in advance

Jim

 

[300zx]

Jim, I can only tell you my experience with the same frustration and it may or may-not apply.

I was trying to replace the filter on my B6200. It had the same issue, I couldn't get the outside canister to go up far enough to screw the retainer ring on. I complained to my son who was in for the weekend. He looked up under the housing where the filter seats and an upper ring from the old filter had stuck and was keeping the new filter from seating correctly. We removed it and the new filter seated perfectly and the canister screwed on as it should.

Good luck,
John in VA

 

[NMC_EXP]

John

Thanks for the info. That would certainly do it. This new filter has a thin gage formed sheet metal end cap with a hole in the center.

The old filter I removed had the same end cap still in place on the filter. [Correction: the lower filter metal end cap was stuck in the bottom of the bowl]

Darn.

Regards

Jim

 

[Rob]

If you have the clear plastic bowl then after removing the old element you should nothing in the bottom of the bowl, if you have a metal section in the bottom, it's the bottom part of the element jammed still in the bowl.
same with the top, make sure you dont still have the old o-ring jammed in place .

good luck, all will become obvious as you backtrack.

rob

 

[300zx]

John

Thanks for the info. That would certainly do it. This new filter has a thin gage formed sheet metal end cap with a hole in the center.

The old filter I removed had the same end cap still in place on the filter.

Darn.

Regards

Jim

Jim, I am still guessing, but if the last filter was crushed, it could be it wouldn't fit because of a previous filter end still stuck in the top.

John

 

[NMC_EXP]

If you have the clear plastic bowl then after removing the old element you should nothing in the bottom of the bowl, if you have a metal section in the bottom, it's the bottom part of the element jammed still in the bowl.
same with the top, make sure you dont still have the old o-ring jammed in place .

rob

Rob

Thank you - excellent advice.

The metal disc in the bottom of the bowl was part of the old filter element. I removed it and the filter assembled without problems.

I was (and still am) confused by the owners manual which: (1) mentions a spring in the bottom of the bowl [Correction: the how-to section on this website mentions the spring, not the manual], and (2) the exploded diagram which shows two o-rings - a larger one which seals the bowl against the filter base and a smaller one apparently between the top of the filter element and the bottom of the base.

This unit did not have a spring. I could not detect the smaller o-ring in the base with my finger. Without an o-ring or some sort of seal at the top of the filter element, it is hard to see how it will seal.

Thanks again and best regards.

Jim

 

[NMC_EXP]

Jim, I am still guessing, but if the last filter was crushed, it could be it wouldn't fit because of a previous filter end still stuck in the top.

John

John

I was wrong about the filter I removed. What I saw on the base of the filter element was the adhesive used to hold shape of the filter paper. The metal end cap was in fact stuck in the bowl. My manual mentions a spring in the bowl and I assumed the metal disc in the bowl was a Belleville spring [Correction: the manual does not mention a spring - that info is from the how-to section on this website].

I did not find the small o-ring located at the top of the filter as shown in the manual. I could not locate my inspection mirror and installed the new filter without finding out if the small o-ring was in place in the filter base.

I need to do that.

Regards

Jim

 

[300zx]

I am glad you are making progress. I was not aware of an o-ring at the top and just replaced my filter. If you find there needs to be one, let us know.

John

 

[Stubbyie]

Track down an Illustrated Parts Manual and I suspect you'll see a spring under the fuel filter element. They're commonly lost when changing elements. My dealer keeps a stock of them and says it's one of their most often requested parts when the shop pulls maintenance on machines. Most owners never realize they're missing or ignore them. Spring is needed to ensure element is held in postion and fuel is actually filtered and not bypassing the element.

We've bought and sold a few and interviewed others for possible purchase. If the filter cup has the spring it's almost always the original filter came on the machine. If missing, we know the filter got changed but it wasn't filtering.

 

[NMC_EXP]

Stubbyie

"Track down an Illustrated Parts Manual and I suspect you'll see a spring under the fuel filter element."

We got a copy of the "Parts List" with the B7100 (tractor is a 1980 model). The fuel filter group is on page 39. It does not show a spring in the bowl (called "cup - filter" in the parts book).

The parts book does show two orings - item #10 is the larger one which seals the cup to the filter base, item #12 is much smaller and appears to seal the top of the filter cartridge to the base to prevent bypass.

I need to disassemble it and find out if the item #12 oring was still stuck in place in the filter base. It did not come out with the old filter cartridge.

Thanks again to all - I really appreciate the help.

Regards

Jim

p.s. I was a rubber materials engineer for 25+ years. It is my only area of expertise. If anyone has a questions about rubber or products made with rubber, I'd be glad to help. My way of payback for helping me with the mechanical issues.

 

[300zx]

Jim,

My B2150 parts show the same thing. No spring, just the small and large o-ring. I need to check and see if the small one is still there!

I will also keep you in mind for questions on rubber.

John

 

[Apogee]

Jim,

I checked the Kubota parts lists for the filter assembly, both for the newer and older B7100 models, and found the same as you, just a small and large o-ring.

Just for reference, Messick's carries the replacement filter assembly P/N 1G313-43010 for $43.10.

Here's a good pic of it and I don't see a spring:

http://www.messicks.com/imageview.ashx?img=1G313-43010.jpg&ven=KU

Thanks for the offer to share your rubber knowledge! I can certainly see where it could be very useful. One never knows, I/we might need to take you up on it.

Hope this helps!

Kind regards,

Steve