canada insurance and borders

[shootem604]

But the fact is that our insurance rates, doctor fees, and hospital charges help mend those that don't. There is no free ride.

The trouble is, we start getting into significant infringement of personal freedoms, especially here in Canada with socialized medicine costing governments in excess of 60% of revenue. No helmet on a motorcycle and no seatbelt in the car will get you fined. If you wear a turban instead of the helmet, or if you are on a bicycle, the rules are different. That's where the real trouble comes in - what's sauce for the goose SHOULD be sauce for the gander.

 

[quazz]

Re: Safety shields

The trouble is, we start getting into significant infringement of personal freedoms, especially here in Canada with socialized medicine costing governments in excess of 60% of revenue. No helmet on a motorcycle and no seat belt in the car will get you fined. If you wear a turban instead of the helmet, or if you are on a bicycle, the rules are different. That's where the real trouble comes in - what's sauce for the goose SHOULD be sauce for the gander.

Canadian medical care covers everyone and it is far more efficient than private. Canadians spend roughly half of what our friends to the south pay. As for freedom Canada ranks at or near the top of every study that measures freedom and personal liberty. But yeah you have to wear your seat belt and wear a helmet on a bike.

I am all for safety regulations where they make sense. Cars are far safer today than when I was a kid and this is due to safety regulations and not to car companies doing it on their own.

 

[troverman]

Re: Safety shields

I appreciate all the care and concern you folks seem to have. If its any of your business, I have health insurance. Nobody is paying for my medical problems except for me and my employer.

Therefore, if I get in an accident in my truck, or on my bike, the only additional harm that occurs because I am not wearing a seat belt or helmet is to me. So, as an intelligent individual, let me decide. It's very insulting when government can fine you because you choose not to wear a seat belt or motorcycle helmet. It is none of the state's business, in my book.

When you look at tax rates between the US and Canada, there isn't so much of a difference. But that's because the Canadian government does have to pay for nearly as many things as the US government does. With this being an election year, some of the think tanks have estimated the cost to socialize medicine in a manner similar to Canada...the numbers are staggering. I appreciate Canada's system in that it doesn't allow for much advertising, and administrative costs are very low. Otherwise, it's no better and in many ways worse. I was raised to take care of myself as much as possible. That means getting a job which provides for insurance coverage. I have zero interest in adding to my tax burden to pay for health care of illegals, those who are capable of working but don't, and those who live such a horrible lifestyle that they require excessive care. I'll admit the US healthcare system is a mess with massively too high costs on procedures and drugs, which results in too high of insurance costs.

That said, Canada sets the rates at which physicians are paid and also the budget for hospitals. Those things are not going to encourage better care, and wait times tend to be long.

Bottom line...live a healthy lifestyle, use common sense, and try to stay as far away from doctors and hospitals as possible...you'll do just fine.

 

[quazz]

Re: Safety shields

I didn't intend to knock the US medical system, there are pros and cons to both systems but a lot of myths exist around Canada's system. I was just responding to another Canadian denigrating a system that is incredibly popular here because it is efficient and works for us. Doctors are private but the government is our insurance company. I don't know enough about the US system to have an opinion.

 

[shootem604]

Re: Safety shields

Canadian medical care covers everyone and it is far more efficient than private. Canadians spend roughly half of what our friends to the south pay. As for freedom Canada ranks at or near the top of every study that measures freedom and personal liberty. But yeah you have to wear your seat belt and wear a helmet on a bike.

I am all for safety regulations where they make sense. Cars are far safer today than when I was a kid and this is due to safety regulations and not to car companies doing it on their own.

I'm going to disagree with you on virtually every level. Granted your experience may vary considerably in another province, but here in BC, no one would claim our healthcare is efficient. And what we spend on healthcare is cleverly hidden in both federal and government taxes, accounting for over 50% of income. And for freedom and personal liberty - try exercising free speech lately - in person or online on the homosexual or transgender issues and watch out for charges of hate speech - the last 5 years have seen 5 different federal bills attempting to restrict expression online, in the press, and in person. Exercise freedom of religion and watch your job options dwindle if you refuse to work Sundays or your grant application get denied. Own a firearm you can only transport or use in certain places until the government enacts the pending order to confiscate your private property. Canada's golden age has passed, the barbarians are at the gate, and the government offers bread (welfare) and circuses (government subsidized professional sports) to keep the masses sated. And the leader is fiddling as things burn.

I could go on, but NIW recently put the kibosh on vehement political discussions...

 

[GreensvilleJay]

Re: Safety shields

re: Canadian medical care covers everyone and it is far more efficient than private.

IF and that's a BIG IF, you HAVE a familty doctor ,at least here in Ontario !!!
Without a 'familty doctor' you cannot get a referral to a 'specialist' for treatment. That means $$ out of YOUR pocket in order to bypass OHIP.
Case in point , I needed 'minor' surgery on my toe, THAT cost me $700 Canucks... wiped out my Old Age Pension last month.

With the HUGE increase in illegals(100K+) here in Ontario NO new doctors, let alone new hospitals ..

 

[troverman]

Re: Safety shields

I didn't intend to knock the US medical system, there are pros and cons to both systems but a lot of myths exist around Canada's system. I was just responding to another Canadian denigrating a system that is incredibly popular here because it is efficient and works for us. Doctors are private but the government is our insurance company. I don't know enough about the US system to have an opinion.

Healthcare in the US is a major issue for some. A lot of what is said on TV isn't accurate. Nobody is really denied care...its not like people die on the streets because they don't have insurance. The Emergency Room cannot deny anyone treatment simply because they can't pay. Furthermore, if you have no income or very little income, state insurance has been available for many years.

The big problem is cost. Almost every full time employer offers health insurance, where most of the money is paid as a benefit of your job. The rest is taken automatically out of your paycheck. Note, however, that even if your employer offers health insurance, you can elect to have none. I appreciate that freedom. The problem is that the cost of care, drugs, and insurance is super high. Everyone is in it to make money, which I have no problem with other than the fact that competition is limited. That means rates and charges can soar.

My private insurance does cover more than Canadian healthcare seems to, with most of the costs of prescription drugs being covered, plus dental and vision is also paid. Because these are private policies, different insurers offer better or worse plans, for more or less money. Some insurance policies are 100% coverage of everything. Others require significant out of pocket expenditures.

 

[quazz]

Re: Safety shields

Healthcare in the US is a major issue for some. A lot of what is said on TV isn't accurate. Nobody is really denied care...its not like people die on the streets because they don't have insurance. The Emergency Room cannot deny anyone treatment simply because they can't pay. Furthermore, if you have no income or very little income, state insurance has been available for many years.

The big problem is cost. Almost every full time employer offers health insurance, where most of the money is paid as a benefit of your job. The rest is taken automatically out of your paycheck. Note, however, that even if your employer offers health insurance, you can elect to have none. I appreciate that freedom. The problem is that the cost of care, drugs, and insurance is super high. Everyone is in it to make money, which I have no problem with other than the fact that competition is limited. That means rates and charges can soar.

My private insurance does cover more than Canadian healthcare seems to, with most of the costs of prescription drugs being covered, plus dental and vision is also paid. Because these are private policies, different insurers offer better or worse plans, for more or less money. Some insurance policies are 100% coverage of everything. Others require significant out of pocket expenditures.

Like I said I don't know enough to have an opinion on US health care. I will say though that the US seems to come up with a lot of new drugs and procedures that save many lives around the world. I would be careful tampering with it.

 

[GeoHorn]

Re: Safety shields

...I have zero interest in adding to my tax burden to pay for health care of illegals, those who are capable of working but don't,
....
Bottom line...live a healthy lifestyle, use common sense, and try to stay as far away from doctors and hospitals as possible...you'll do just fine.

That is all horse-poop. If you REMOVE the work opportunities for those “illegals” they’d stop being here. If we put the CEOs of corporations and others who hire them in JAIL for six months .... the majority of our immigration problem will disappear. They don’t come here NOT to work.
The COME here for WORK and a better, safer life... Just like your ancestors did...and just like YOU would do if your home was as dangerous as theirs.
And, BTW, there is NO SUCH THING as an “illegal” person. Don’t use that term if you also believe in “pro life”.

Staying away from hospitals and doctors works only if you’re not sick. That may be one of the silliest comments I’ve seen lately.

IMO

 

[troverman]

Re: Safety shields

That is all horse-poop. If you REMOVE the work opportunities for those “illegals” they’d stop being here. If we put the CEOs of corporations and others who hire them in JAIL for six months .... the majority of our immigration problem will disappear. They don’t come here NOT to work.
The COME here for WORK and a better, safer life... Just like your ancestors did...and just like YOU would do if your home was as dangerous as theirs.
And, BTW, there is NO SUCH THING as an “illegal” person. Don’t use that term if you also believe in “pro life”.

Staying away from hospitals and doctors works only if you’re not sick. That may be one of the silliest comments I’ve seen lately.

IMO

While I agree if you did remove work opportunities for illegals, that *might* help. The other half of the quotient is what the democrats are currently offering for illegals...free healthcare, even free college, a driver's license, housing assistance, and any other number of state programs. We have lots of Caucasian people currently on all these similar programs...so why wouldn't illegals also take advantage? Of course a certain percentage of them would. And frankly, offering handouts is a sure way to attract lazy people.

If your statements are genuine, you are quite an altruistic person. But the sad reality is illegals increase our crime load, not decrease it.

Illegal person? Never used any such term. That's a tired liberal line used in an attempt to make those who prefer lawful immigration seem depraved. But to clarify, as if you needed it, a person whom illegally enters the United States is, in fact, an illegal immigrant...or illegal, for short.

Frankly, if they only come here for a better life, and a safer life...they might start by actually following the law and entering the country in a legal and lawful manner. My ancestors came through Ellis Island...in a lawful manner. They had to undergo quite a variety of tests...they had to pass a health exam, they had to pass a basic literacy exam, and they had to be able to demonstrate they understood the basic Constitution, US laws, and US culture on a basic level. If those same tests were performed on illegal immigrants, virtually none would pass. But of course, those tests should be required...how else does one survive in a new country, with new laws, and a different culture?

 

[GeoHorn]

Re: Safety shields

While I agree if you did remove work opportunities for illegals, that *might* help. The other half of the quotient is what the democrats are currently offering for illegals...free healthcare, even free college, a driver's license, housing assistance, and any other number of state programs. We have lots of Caucasian people currently on all these similar programs...so why wouldn't illegals also take advantage? Of course a certain percentage of them would. And frankly, offering handouts is a sure way to attract lazy people.

If your statements are genuine, you are quite an altruistic person. But the sad reality is illegals increase our crime load, not decrease it.

Illegal person? Never used any such term. That's a tired liberal line used in an attempt to make those who prefer lawful immigration seem depraved. But to clarify, as if you needed it, a person whom illegally enters the United States is, in fact, an illegal immigrant...or illegal, for short.

Frankly, if they only come here for a better life, and a safer life...they might start by actually following the law and entering the country in a legal and lawful manner. My ancestors came through Ellis Island...in a lawful manner. They had to undergo quite a variety of tests...they had to pass a health exam, they had to pass a basic literacy exam, and they had to be able to demonstrate they understood the basic Constitution, US laws, and US culture on a basic level. If those same tests were performed on illegal immigrants, virtually none would pass. But of course, those tests should be required...how else does one survive in a new country, with new laws, and a different culture?

That’s NOT what you previously wrote: You previously relegated your rant against “illegals”, and NOW you wish to claim you only meant “illegal immigrants”.
There is also need to define THAT term. I suggest that an “illegal immigrant” is one who applies for status as an immigrant and who then violates the terms of their immigration agreement. However that is not what you meant. What you mean is a person who is here without immigration status at all, which is more correctly identified as an “undocumented person”. They might be a visitor. They might be a refugee. They might have perfectly legitimate reasons for being here regardless of WHERE or HOW they got here. Just like you. YOU are here by an accident or by happen-chance of nature. If you had been living in Honduras or Nicaragua you would likely be here exactly as others recently arrived... out of desperation as a vulnerable person. The type of vulnerable person I suspect the Bible you likely profess to admire teaches we should protect and assist.

It is an entirely DIFFERENT thing than “law enforcement” problems, which you seem to lump all of them into. THIS country believes a person to be INNOCENT until PROVEN guilty. Simply being PRESENT does not make a person guilty of crime and to lump them into labels of “criminals” is discriminatory.

Discrimination, on the other hand, IS A CRIME.

This is not a “democrat” thing. This is not a “liberal” thing. It is a Christian thing. And assigning belief in a “lawful immigration system” only to those who aren’t “liberal” is ignorant. (BTW, “liberal” shares it’s root word with “liberty”. Words such as liberal, liberty, libertarian and libertine all trace their history to the Latin liber, which means "free". Ironically, conservatism once meant to conserve tradition, which was in opposition to our “free” forms of governance, while liberalism fought gov’t control and advocated for less gov’t intervention in individual lives, but found that it needed to further secure inherent rights with legislation that provided recourse when those rights were violated.)

It’s always a dangerous thing when people try to assign “labels” to those with whom they disagree because that de-humanizes people.... exactly what Nazi’s and other tyrants do.

 

[dirtydeed]

Re: Safety shields

I think this thread made an illegal left turn several pages ago.

Really, what does any of this have to do with...what was the original topic???

oh, yes, PTO shields.

 

[Fido Farms]

Re: Safety shields

I zipped past all the off topic that has a different topic. Common sense people. How hard is that. Ffs. Pay attention. I can’t believe this keeps coming up but then someone ads I just got a new piece of equipment. How does it work? Think about staying alive. COMMON SENSE. If it hot don’t touch it. It could kill me. Maybe I’ll take a chance. Pretty much most agree on this. Absolutely if u have a question then ask but don’t play the he didn’t know card now he’s wrapped up in a PTO shaft. Plz. Think before u do. Be as safe as YOU can be. It’s not the responsibility of of someone else to care of u. Unless u a child of course. Safety switches are for dummy’s and experienced alike. Think before u do. Nobody wants to get hurt but its really up to YOU. IMHO Enjoy your equipment. They make life so much easier/fun.

 

[quazz]

Re: Safety shields

. And for freedom and personal liberty - try exercising free speech lately - in person or online on the homosexual or transgender issues

Freedom means freedom for everyone or it isn't freedom. If you disagree with homosexuality don't do it. What they do is their own business.

 

[GeoHorn]

Re: Safety shields

If you DO do that kind of thing.... PUT A PTO COVER ON IT!

 

[troverman]

Re: Safety shields

Geo, not sure I should continue on our little side track, and I'm not meaning to offend. I think what is important is that you seem to be separating humanity and helping others with following the law.

For example, if a mother of a starving child steals food from the store to feed her child, she has still broken the law. Should we help her? Of course, but there are legal avenues for her to follow in order to get the food she needs. Likewise, whether a non-citizen comes to our country in fear for their life from gang violence or government corruption...or they come here simply seeking better opportunities...if they cross the border without paperwork, they have broken the law and become an illegal immigrant. I don't care about the semantics..."undocumented" is simply a euphemism employed to try and pretend the person hasn't committed a crime, but of course they have.

Without laws, our great nation becomes chaos and disorder. The solution isn't to remove laws...rather, it is to improve the process through which a person can legally enter the country. Make it quicker, make it easier, whatever...but in a manner which still ensures the safety of "legal" immigrants and other longstanding citizens.


SUMMARY:
Not using PTO safety shields>>trip to the hospital>>high cost of medical care>>potentially caused by non-paying parties seeking medical care>>proposals by democrats to offer free healthcare even to non-citizens>>discussion on immigration concerns.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Re: Safety shields

if you do do that kind of thing.... Put a pto cover on it! :d:d:d

+10..............:d

 

[torch]

Re: Safety shields

Virtually every one of us is an "illegal". Our earliest ancestors came to the country and took if from the natives, who in turn had often taken if from other natives. Those ancestors then set up immigration schemes to keep their ill-gotten booty to themselves and the few elect they allowed past the gates and keep out the Irish or the Chinese or the Mexicans or the Jews or the Italians or the Catholics or the Eastern Europeans or -- well, whoever the favourite target of the day happened to be.

The only persons here with any sort of legitimacy are the descendants of slaves -- because they were hauled over here against their will.

 

[troverman]

Re: Safety shields

No modern country of any significance (and most that are economically insignificant) has open borders. You can emigrate to almost any other country in the world, but need to apply on a form to become a permanent immigrant / citizen. This really isn't that hard. There may be a waiting time.

Its very nice to say we are all immigrants, or we're all illegals, etc...but these laws have been the way it is since before my time. Laws need to be enforced to keep order in the country.

*******

As an alternative, if people insist on "open borders," my solution would be to simply annex Mexico in the same way Russia recently took Crimea. Unfortunately, corruption and the cartels are not under control by the MX government, and likely never will be. Annexing, even by military force, would allow us to get the crime under control and give people a better opportunity in their life without even needing to leave their native lands. Seems like a win-win. Of course, it will never happen.

 

[GeoHorn]

Re: Safety shields

Troverman, for a law-and-order advocate such as yourself to champion an idea of annexing another country is bizarre.

The people coming to our borders are two types: Those whom you refer to as “illegal”... meaning people who come here to work without permits (but whom you confuse with a wholly-misinformed opinion they’re not here to work)... and those who come here quite ready-and-willing to make application for admission ... but who are being separated from their children (talk about “illegal”..and THAT illegal activity is OURs via our administration, those people being illegally forced back across the border into crowded and dangerous and unhealthy camps. It is US who are failing to comply with our own laws regarding immigration, instead implementing ad hoc policy.
You are displaying ignorance of the situation when you blame democrats for all the ills you imagine, this is a republican administration in action. But we are waay off topic. My apologies. I’m finished with this.
Kind regards.