Cab Heater - OK to Mount in Ceiling?

[NoJacketRequired]

I've acquired an aftermarket cab, originally designed for another tractor, and am modifying it to fit our B7510. This cab came with a heater which is mounted up in a ceiling panel behind the bank of switches which control not only the heater but lights and the windshield wiper and windshield washer.

Yeah, it's a pretty nice cab, but it had all the glass smashed out of it and had some bent metal, so it came to me at the right price.

My question arises from comments made by the fellow who is doing the cutting/welding to adapt the cab to our tractor. He warned me that I'd never get the air out of the heater core with it mounted that far above the B7510's engine and that I would curse myself for using it in that location.

My other B7510 has its heater down at about the same height as the instrument panel.

Has anybody had experience with a ceiling mounted cab heater? Good or bad? Any tips or tricks to make it work?

Also... does Kubota sell the engine coolant thermostat housing tapped for a fitting (likely an NPT thread) to attach a hose to send hot coolant up to the cab heater? I hope this isn't one of those parts that I need to make myself by drilling and tapping my own thermostat housing...

Thanks for your helpful replies.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Just hook it into this line (picture below), and get this water pump and you won't have any issues with the heater being on the top of the cab.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ojNID2jDz4&vl=en

 

[Firefox]

Major heat from my center mounted ceiling heater in a Sims cab on a 7200 HST model. Has a in-line gate valve to throttle the flow. I'll pop the hood tomorrow and check the hose configurations ,it's past midnight here in Ohio.

 

[NoJacketRequired]

Wow, Wolfman, I would never have thought of that Prius pump. It looks like a real champ! Thanks for the suggestion, and the pickoff point suggestion.

I'll stand by for more info if you can share it, Firefox.

Between the two of you I'm getting a really good feeling that this ceiling mounted heater will work.

By the way, today I tested out all the accessories that came with the cab. Heater fan works, heater core doesn't leak, heater shutoff valve works, 2-speed windshield wiper works, circulating fan on a ball swivel works, and the windshield washer works. I can't believe everything works!

My father is visiting here for Canadian Thanksgiving. You should have seen the look on his face when I drove him over to the neighbors where the cab is being installed on the tractor. He was pleasantly surprised to learn that the tractor I'm loaning him will have a heated cab. He's never had such a luxury. Did a fit check and he can get in and out of it just fine, thanks to my neighbor adding a boarding step below the cab door. So far this project looks like it is well on the way to success.

 

[NoJacketRequired]

Now that I've thought about it for a second or two I think I should ask if there's a "best" place to plumb in the coolant returning from the heater?

I have only seen the supply side attached up on top of the engine at what I believe to be the thermostat housing (labelled Fig 0500 in the drawing so kindly supplied by Wolfman). Now I have been introduced to a line low down on the engine, a line I didn't know existed.

The learning possibilities here are endless, thanks to kind folks sharing their terrific knowledge. Thank you!

 

[mikester]

Mine is on the ceiling and I have no problems with it.

Check around your pump outlet. It may already have available ports you can tap into. My M59 did. Here's a link to my blog showing pictures of the cab install including the heater hose install.

http://divergentstuff.ca/index.php/2017/10/19/laurin-eclipse-cab-install-for-my-kubota-m59/

 

[sagor]

I think heater placement depends somewhat on the volume of hot air the heater provides. Rule #1 is that hot air rises, so for smaller tractors, I can see placing the heater near floor level, keep your feet warm, and let the heat rise. If you can push a lot of air with the heater fan, high up is ok. However, if you have only "some air" at the top, your heated air will never reach the floor area (or at least not heat it up much), making your head "hot" and your feet "cold". I'm talking about -20C temperatures in the cab. If the coldest you get is just below freezing, it probably does not matter where the heater is.

Just my opinion, no facts to back up this theory....

 

[Firefox]

My 7200 has ports on wtr pump casting and wtr flange below thermostat. Wolf man had it right for your application (b7510) . GIT-ER-DONE

 

[SwampCat]

I think heater placement depends somewhat on the volume of hot air the heater provides. Rule #1 is that hot air rises, so for smaller tractors, I can see placing the heater near floor level, keep your feet warm, and let the heat rise. If you can push a lot of air with the heater fan, high up is ok. However, if you have only "some air" at the top, your heated air will never reach the floor area (or at least not heat it up much), making your head "hot" and your feet "cold". I'm talking about -20C temperatures in the cab. If the coldest you get is just below freezing, it probably does not matter where the heater is.

Just my opinion, no facts to back up this theory....

As a retired heavy equipment operator, who plowed ALOT of snow, with some OLD Cat tractors. You want the HEAT on your FEET, the rest of the warm air will rise to your head. Best is to have 2 heaters, one high, one low. Breathing in the cab without a good heater will fog the windows, now you cant see. Dont miss the nights at all on a open station D-8, stockpiling snow at the snowdump. Fan turned around, heat houser equipped was pretty warm on the feet and hands, but cold on the ears.

 

[Creig]

Major heat from my center mounted ceiling heater in a Sims cab on a 7200 HST model. Has a in-line gate valve to throttle the flow. I'll pop the hood tomorrow and check the hose configurations ,it's past midnight here in Ohio.

Any chance you could post pics of your setup and plumbing? I have a B7200 HST with Sims cab as well and have been contemplating adding a heater but am still debating where to install it. The Sims cab on these doesn't leave a lot of extra space inside for mounting accessories.

The one big thing I would worry about with mounting a heater up high is the potential for a hose failure that would dump 180° F water on you. That can cause some SERIOUSLY painful burns in seconds. And it would keep dumping that boiling hot water on you until you could either shut off the tractor/pump or exit the cab (which isn't quick with a soft side zippered doorway).

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Any chance you could post pics of your setup and plumbing? I have a B7200 HST with Sims cab as well and have been contemplating adding a heater but am still debating where to install it. The Sims cab on these doesn't leave a lot of extra space inside for mounting accessories.

The one big thing I would worry about with mounting a heater up high is the potential for a hose failure that would dump 180° F water on you. That can cause some SERIOUSLY painful burns in seconds. And it would keep dumping that boiling hot water on you until you could either shut off the tractor/pump or exit the cab (which isn't quick with a soft side zippered doorway).

To mitigate issues like this, use a braided reinforced hose, stainless braided hose and or steel lines.

 

[NoJacketRequired]

In the case of our cab, the OEM hose runs up the front door posts inside the 1"x2" steel tube frame. Makes small outside diameter hose a necessity. What has been used by the OEM is stuff that looks like this:
https://www.homedepot.ca/en/home/p....-outside-diameter-x-10ft-coil.1001002049.html
Not sure it's vinyl, but it is definitely the same stuff one used to plumb hot tubs, kitchen sink vegetable sprayers etc.

 

[mikester]

In the case of our cab, the OEM hose runs up the front door posts inside the 1"x2" steel tube frame. Makes small outside diameter hose a necessity. What has been used by the OEM is stuff that looks like this:
https://www.homedepot.ca/en/home/p....-outside-diameter-x-10ft-coil.1001002049.html
Not sure it's vinyl, but it is definitely the same stuff one used to plumb hot tubs, kitchen sink vegetable sprayers etc.

Go to your local auto parts dealer and buy the correct auto heater hose tubing made to handle high temps and glycol. You only need something like a 3/8" ID hose and they sell it by the foot.

I wouldn't use the homedepot stuff in an automotive application

 

[NoJacketRequired]

Thanks for the continuing flow of good ideas, folks.

In this instance the O.D. is as important as the I.D. since the hose has to run down the inside of the front cab posts. I took a few minutes to check out the hose installed by the cab's OEM - it's pretty generic stuff, reinforced PVC, but it is listed as being good to 250 degrees F and is compatible with glycol. What a surprise as I figured it was pretty chincy stuff.

Too bad the mice have chewed it. Since the heater is removed from the cab, now seems a good time to do a complete replacement. Will check with the local auto supply shops to see if they have some 3/8" heater hose that isn't too big in its outside diameter.

 

[Firefox]

Creig- my cab heater hoses are all original ,fairly soft, no potential signs of failure. 5/8 automotive nylon braided. I did replace all the radiator and engine hoses last year. The cab was installed by the dealer about 25 years ago along with power steering. Hoses come off the front of the engine ( previous post), across the top of the engine them down above the speed control petal,over the hst cover(in front of seat), then up the left rear cab corner( Metal hanger )to heater box. Center mounted 10"x12"x5"h , Center draw, with toggle switch. It's old style but it works. One of these days I'm gonna figure out how to put pictures on this post from iPad. Hope this answered a few of your questions.

 

[NoJacketRequired]

Thanks for your follow-up post, Firefox. You've given me hope that the "standard" pickoff points for hot water on the engine will work. Yours is a long run, going up the back corner of the cab, but that run also prevents the hose from having any short, sharp low points. I'll give some more thought to following this routing if I can't get the hoses to work running up the front corner posts as was done by the OEM.

 

[NoJacketRequired]

UPDATE...
The thermostat housing on our B7510 does not have a threaded port on it. It has a deeply machined hole in it which bottoms out. Bummer as I really don't want to get into machining this housing myself.

With this in mind, and after consulting this thread:
http://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34578&highlight=heater+plumbing

I'm considering tapping into the thermostat bypass hose. I've attached a couple of photos here of what I believe is the thermostat bypass hose (with blue masking tape on it).

I'd appreciate knowledgeable folks confirming this is indeed the bypass, and would really appreciate confirmation of which port is "pressure" and which is "return". I believe the port on the thermostat housing itself is the "return" side. Please correct my thinking if necessary.

 

[NoJacketRequired]

Following up here... The ports pictured in my post above are indeed the thermostat bypass ports. They are sized for 3/8" hose. My cab has a heater in its ceiling. This setup produces lots of heat, produces heat quickly, and so far has no effect on the operating temperature of the engine.