BX25D Float Feature for Snow Plowing

[BX25DMan]

Early this year I bought a new Kubota BX25D.

Before taking delivery, the salesman when over all of its controls and features including the float option on the front end loader. According to his explanation and what I've read, pushing the loaded control stick all the way forward places the valve in a position that no fluid is supplied to either of the hydraulic cylinder and the bucket or plow basically follows the terrain.

For winter I use I bought both the quick detach option and the plow blade. This little beauty makes switching from bucket to blade and back a 5 minute job so this money was well spent.

The other day it snowed so with about 6 inches on the ground I started plowing. Drop the blade on the pavement and lock the control stick in the forward most position.

After moving a mere 6 to 8 feet I noticed the front wheels were off the ground! This seemed odd because the float position should not allow fluid to be pumped to either end of these cylinders but with the wheels off the ground this certainly was not the case....

I checked everything several times and can feel the click when the control stick click into the float position....I tried this several times and unfortunately had to finish clearing watching the height of the blade....not what I expected.

I was going to call the dealer today but there's a wealth of knowledge here so I thought I run it by you guys first....

 

[Wildfire]

First of all welcome to the site. Hope you enjoy it here.

We have a BX 25-D and the float is an easy system to use. Push the stick completely forward and it should be in the float position. That being said even in the float position your wheels can still come off the ground if the bucket has enough resistance while moving forward.

If your wheels do come off the ground in the float position while moving forward just stop and back up a little. If the machine settles down on the wheels again then you know the float valve is working as it should.
There are times where the float position works well and there are other times it don't. It will take a little more experience to know when to use it.

 

[ipz2222]

If there is enough drag on the bucket,(friction along the bottom area of contact), the tractor will litteraly push it self up, just like a pole vault. Float is mostly used in the drag , moveing rearward position.

 

[BX25DMan]

Thank you for the welcome!

Great info guys

My driveway is paved and I have the blade tilted back slightly so the 2 round skid pads contact the pavement and not the moldboard....

I'll pay a little closer attention they next time I'm plowing to see if it's friction related or possibly valve related.

 

[cerlawson]

I've had blue tractors with buckets. Their float control never did what you describe. I suspect it is in the design of where the support arm pivoting action is located on the tractor. The higher it is located, the more likely the drag of the bucket will do the pole vault thing. One stroke against orange in my book. Of course, I usually keep my bucket bottom flat to the ground, if possible, for less drag.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

cerlawson,
You do know that all the smaller Blue tractors that you keep raving about are all made in china, and have a horrible track and life rating!
Made in china is not what you want stamped on your tractor!
I don't understand, If you are so proud of them why did you by a orange one???

 

[Wildfire]

I've had blue tractors with buckets. Their float control never did what you describe. I suspect it is in the design of where the support arm pivoting action is located on the tractor. The higher it is located, the more likely the drag of the bucket will do the pole vault thing. One stroke against orange in my book. Of course, I usually keep my bucket bottom flat to the ground, if possible, for less drag.

I guess the Caterpillar 988 and 966 C loaders had a problem to because they did the exact same thing when I was operating them.

Gee just my luck. The Cat equipment I used did it, the Kubota 4240 I had did it, the Kubota 5740 that I have now and the BX 25-D does it.
Just my rotten luck

BX25DMan, you go on and enjoy your fantastic tractor. It's working as it should

 

[BX25DMan]

BX25DMan, you go on and enjoy your fantastic tractor. It's working as it should

I am enjoying my tractor and my only regret is not buying it years ago! Every time I use it, I think back to all the work I've done through the years and say to myself; "I wish I had this back then!"

Thanks for all the help guys...

 

[Whiskey Papa]

I don't know about the BX, but my B2920 runs forward in float just fine. Keep in mind I'm pushing snow on blacktop. If I tried that on gravel, I'm sure it'd be a different story.

Also, bucket position has a lot to do with how much "grab" you get in the front end. After a couple hours, you'll figure out what works best and when.

Final note...when dropping the bucket into float, it helps to push forward quickly and get the control to "snap" into float. Otherwise, you'll find yourself powering the bucket down and lifting the front of the tractor.

 

[BX25DMan]

Reporting In

Blacktop and plow-blade here...

What you guys said made a lot of sense so this morning I went out to plow some additional show we got last night.

Once the front loader control stick was in the float position I started plowing. A couple of times I noticed the front wheels come off the ground so I backed up slightly to take some pressure off the front and what do you know, the wheels settled back down right where they should be.

I wasn't moving a lot of snow at all and but when the drag on the blade became too much I seemed to repeat this scenario more times than I'd like to see.

The machine is very powerful and I'm wondering if this is more of a weight distribution than anything else.

I left the backhoe attached thinking it would add weight to the rear wheels giving them added traction or grip when the snow is heavy and deep. While this is sound thinking it also may be assisting the front end lifting prematurely adding weight behind the rear wheels and using them as a fulcrum...

I'm wondering if I should remove the backhoe attachment or possibly add counter weights to the front?

Your thoughts and comments are always appreciated...

 

[cerlawson]

OK guys, look at everything when it comes to this usage. As engineers, we use what is called a free body analysis showing all forces and resistances. At the time of front wheels lift, there are only two points on the ground, the bucket and the rear tires. The front upward rotation of the tractor is on that rear axle pivot. One factor is: where is the center of gravity of the tractor with respect to that pivot? Putting weight on the rear end moves it back, closer to the pivot, making it less useful in resisting tilting up and back. The driving force of the rear wheels is there only because the center of gravity resists overturning up and over backwards as the torque goes into the axle also tending to lift the front end. So for a tractor light on the front end or with a weight hanging off the back, one will expect more of this front end lift. Remove the rear weight or add weight to the front end will help to counter the lift. This then is tied to the geometry of the bucket linkages and its pivot providing a lever arm to tilt up and over backwards. This is why larger tractors with more overall weight and thus more resistance to overturning up and over are less likely to have this effect. Also blame some of on the power of the engine. A lower powered machine won't be as affected so easily.

 

[BAP]

And the point would be???????

 

[BAP]

BX25DMAN what you are experiencing is normal. Some tractors are more likely to do it than others. When you are in float you just have to keep an eye out, to keep it from happening.

 

[BX25DMan]

BX25DMAN what you are experiencing is normal. Some tractors are more likely to do it than others. When you are in float you just have to keep an eye out, to keep it from happening.

Yup, I had to keep an eye on it today. My concern is what happens when the snow becomes deeper requiring more effort to move it? Thinking that I'll be pulling a wheelie every time I drop the plow makes no sense at all.

I may end up disconnecting the backhoe in order to change the weight distribution, this should help the situation....

 

[Pal03]

Just my own experience but on my bx25d the first few snow falls I still had the BH left on and float would lift the front wheels with very little snow built up. Since that I picked up a second hand 3pt snowblower about 300 pounds so about half the weight of the BH and now I can push alot of snow before the front wheels lift. It will still happen if I angle the cutting edge down to reply dig in or climbing a steep hill but a big improvement