BX25 won't crank all of sudden

[fried1765]

Hi all - did some testing as noted above last night and things are as you describe. With positive probe on starter lug and negative node just on starter case I have 12v UNTIL the key is turned.

Also, running a jumper from the large lug on starter to the spade connection DID NOT start the tractor.

But back to line one and that test - thats a great test because obviously if my voltage drops when key is turned then of course there is an issue. So next step is to trace and check the ground/s from starter case back to battery.

I will do that but if i had to get tractor jumped could i maybe run a wire from one of the starter bolts to the frame? I mean the case being installed should do it but it isnt.


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If you do, the next step would be to measure voltage between the negative terminal of the battery and the starter motor case. You should read 0 V at all times or very close to it. If you suddenly see the voltage rise significantly when you turn the key to the full start position, then you know you have an issue in the negative return path of the battery between the starter case and the battery negative post.
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I do understand that you are measuring 12+volts.
Perhaps I missed it but, did you ever actually have your battery LOAD TESTED?

 

[johnjk]

I got tired of chasing a voltage drop on the safety switch circuit to the starter on my B1700. Everything checked good but I was dropping voltage across the switches. Wired in a relay and no more starting issues

 

[yzinger]

If battery was weak or nearing end of life i would expect at least some clicking or something no?

 

[yzinger]

Completed more testing - kp = key position

meter on batt neg to starter lug...
kp1 - 12+
kp2 - 12+
kp3 - 11.5
kp4 - under 2


meter on batt positive to starter case
kp1 - 12+
kp2 - 12+
kp3 - 11.5
kp4 - under 2


meter on batt negative to spade connector (small black and white) when not connected to spade
kp1 - 0
kp2 - 0
kp3 - 0
kp4 - 11.5

...if i try to measure batt neg to spade when it is plugged in i dont see above 11.5 - i see low under 2


Also should note I had jumper cables from batt pos to large lug, and batt neg to bolt that holds starter on.

...you've all been awesome and patient. Please keep it going - this will be a good post when it is fixed



Thanks

 

[Pawnee]

When you say Batt neg and Batt pos are you measuring at the battery terminal and not the batt post clamp as Henro pointed out in post #36?

Your jumper cables will connect to the clamp, not the battery post usually, so if there is a high resistance connection between the post and the clamp, they won't help.

Referring to your post #44
- Measure voltage between Batt post pos and pos cable clamp while KP4
- Measure voltage between Batt post neg and neg cable clamp while KP4

I was a year younger when this whole thing began. LoL

 

[yzinger]

When you say Batt neg and Batt pos are you measuring at the battery terminal and not the batt post clamp as Henro pointed out in post #36?

Your jumper cables will connect to the clamp, not the battery post usually, so if there is a high resistance connection between the post and the clamp, they won't help.

Referring to your post #44
- Measure voltage between Batt post pos and pos cable clamp while KP4
- Measure voltage between Batt post neg and neg cable clamp while KP4

I was a year younger when this whole thing began. LoL

Thanks for the reply.

All measurments are at battery post not the clamps. But, the jumpers from batt pos and neg are over the clamps on battery post.

Also, yeah this post has dragged on and i really do appreciate folks staying connected. In this day and age of shooting off it is very ok to tell me I am dumb ass, or stupid prick. I am ok with it but just want this whore in the garage so I can truly work on it ffs.

 

[PoTreeBoy]

Thanks for the reply.

All measurments are at battery post not the clamps. But, the jumpers from batt pos and neg are over the clamps on battery post.

Also, yeah this post has dragged on and i really do appreciate folks staying connected. In this day and age of shooting off it is very ok to tell me I am dumb ass, or stupid prick. I am ok with it but just want this whore in the garage so I can truly work on it ffs.

There's a procedure somewhere, but here's a short version.
1 Try battery post to battery post in KP4 - should be >10v, if not, bad battery
2 Try battery clamp to clamp, KP4 - should be >10v, if not, bad clamp connection
3 Battery+ to lug on starter, KP4 - should be <2v, if not, bad connection or bad cable
4 Battery- to starter frame, KP4 - should be <2v, if not, bad connection or bad ground cable
5 Starter lug to starter frame, KP4 - if >10v, bad starter or solenoid

 

[yzinger]

Thank you regarding step5 - starter and solenoid bench tests aok. I will do the other tests and report back.

 

[yzinger]

Thank you regarding step5 - starter and solenoid bench tests aok. I will do the other tests and report back.

There's a procedure somewhere, but here's a short version.
1 Try battery post to battery post in KP4 - should be >10v, if not, bad battery
2 Try battery clamp to clamp, KP4 - should be >10v, if not, bad clamp connection
3 Battery+ to lug on starter, KP4 - should be <2v, if not, bad connection or bad cable
4 Battery- to starter frame, KP4 - should be <2v, if not, bad connection or bad ground cable
5 Starter lug to starter frame, KP4 - if >10v, bad starter or solenoid

#1 - this is less than 2
#2 - this is less than 2
#3 - this is less than 2
#4 - this is less than 2
#5 - this is less than 2

 

[PoTreeBoy]

#1 - this is less than 2
#2 - this is less than 2
#3 - this is less than 2
#4 - this is less than 2
#5 - this is less than 2

Did you try a new battery - or try jumping it from another vehicle? Jump positive to positive, negative to negative.

Once #1 failed, there was no need to continue. Don't feel bad. I was all tensed up about an M7040 with the same symptom. I was dreading chasing the safety circuit, but when I got to step 5, it told me, correctly, that the starter was bad.

BTW, is this the original battery?

 

[yzinger]

Yup, original battery. I will try to jump it tomorrow from the truck. I would love to report that I was in fact a stupid prick

Stay tuned.

 

[Pawnee]

Nobody is going to call you names.
We all just want to help you around this bump in the road.

 

[yzinger]

Nobody is going to call you names.
We all just want to help you around this bump in the road.

I know, just poking fun.

 

[yzinger]

Did you try a new battery - or try jumping it from another vehicle? Jump positive to positive, negative to negative.

Once #1 failed, there was no need to continue. Don't feel bad. I was all tensed up about an M7040 with the same symptom. I was dreading chasing the safety circuit, but when I got to step 5, it told me, correctly, that the starter was bad.

BTW, is this the original battery?

wow, battery is the issue. Jumped from truck batt to tractor batt and started right up. I am so pissed off with myself as I consider myself relatively mechanically inclined but i got going down the road of safety switches and stuff....ARGGG!!!

I think this will still be a great thread for others having starting issues and the moral of the story goes back to the KISS thing, keep it simple stupid. It really should have been first thing I tried in hindsight.

Thanks so much OTT and EVERYONE who replied. Also, that "procedure" should be a sticky somewhere huh

Thanks again all - now to buy a battery and get to bush hogging.

 

[RCW]

wow, battery is the issue. Jumped from truck batt to tractor batt and started right up. I am so pissed off with myself as I consider myself relatively mechanically inclined but i got going down the road of safety switches and stuff....ARGGG!!!

Don't feel bad - - I've been around engine "stuff" for 6 decades...I should know better....

A couple years ago I was asking on OTT about pressure washer oil for my washer....stuff was really expensive.

Duh - - dumbass me was using pump oil instead of motor oil in the crankcase of the Honda engine........

No harm, no foul, but I can be an idiot....

 

[fried1765]

wow, battery is the issue. Jumped from truck batt to tractor batt and started right up. I am so pissed off with myself as I consider myself relatively mechanically inclined but i got going down the road of safety switches and stuff....ARGGG!!!

I think this will still be a great thread for others having starting issues and the moral of the story goes back to the KISS thing, keep it simple stupid. It really should have been first thing I tried in hindsight.

Thanks so much OTT and EVERYONE who replied. Also, that "procedure" should be a sticky somewhere huh

Thanks again all - now to buy a battery and get to bush hogging.

No need to feel stupid.
MANY here have fallen into the same failed battery trap.

I have a 500 Amp carbon pile Clore (brand) battery load tester for just such occasions.
Carbon pile load testers are quite cheap.

 

[yzinger]

..sounds like a good topic for a new thread