Bx23s ballast question

[JimmyJazz]

I had the tractor for a few months before I filled the rear tires. So I’ve run on my lawn with both. What I mean is. After I tossed the RV antifreeze in, I didnt see a difference in my rears digging in more.

Good to know,Thanks.

 

[85Hokie]

splitting hairs .......... mmmmm........

funny that is what every "discussion" here is about - unless the answer is just wrong - which I have been guilty of .....on occasion. But have no problem owning up when I am.

2 of my 4 Kubotas have loaded tires - for all the reason you and I mention - and why not the other 2? Well ..... just lazy to this point. But I will catch up that soon I hope.

 

[FloridaOrange]

I have to laugh because every time I read this statement my head starts to spin!

At the end of the day, I suppose it is all a matter of what one defines as being "the tractor". How about the tires the ballast is in? Do they add weight to the tractor? Oil in the engine, fuel in the fuel tank...do these things add weight to the tractor?

The tractor has a center of gravity. Ballast in the tires adds stability, so ballast in the tires must be lowering the center of gravity of the tractor. How can it do this if it is not part of the tractor? So it must add weight to the tractor itself...

I think I have seen weights given for tractors by manufacturers as being "without fluids," which would support your statement 85Hokie. But I think they imply the tractor will weigh more when fluids are added.

At this point I've concluded it is simply a matter of definition. My head is about to stop spinning now...

Folks, thanks again for all the input. FYI, here is an example of where I may be getting into trouble and where the original question arose from. I am feeding roll hay and my little tractor can not pick them up with forks due to the weight. I have devised a system where I remove the forks to eliminate that weight and just strap the quick attach to the top of the roll. When I lift it up and pivot the quick attach, I have just enough power and ground clearance to transport. Problem is, now I’ve got all that weight elevated on the front end, so... it is not enough to cause the rear end to lift, but i travel slow. It is just uncomfortably awkward if I hit a dip. I am concerned about tipping sideways. This is one reason I thought of the extra, low, weight of tire ballast. However, that would increase the overall weight.
And listen, before I get scolded for not buying a tract big enough, i am just trying to figure out what can and can’t be and what should and should not be done with this unit. As I stated in my original post, I am new to tractors, but am eager to learn how to use them safely and effectively. So, thanks again to all for the real world advice.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

remove BH
install carryall
put one 'roll hay' on carryall
maybe....carry 2nd one up front.

 

[FloridaOrange]

remove BH
install carryall
put one 'roll hay' on carryall
maybe....carry 2nd one up front.

Good suggestion. I was not thinking of back end implements, but this looks like a viable solution. Thanks

 

[GreensvilleJay]

I can haul 3200# logs with my homemade 'carryall' on my D-14. Most(all) tractors can carry more weight out back.
BTW , since you're hauling heavy(max0 loads, be sure the front tires are at max pressure (22PSI ?) and make gentle turns. That'l reduce the stresses on the front end parts .

 

[FloridaOrange]

I can haul 3200# logs with my homemade 'carryall' on my D-14. Most(all) tractors can carry more weight out back.
BTW , since you're hauling heavy(max0 loads, be sure the front tires are at max pressure (22PSI ?) and make gentle turns. That'l reduce the stresses on the front end parts .

Good to know. I was reluctant to drop and swap the backhoe out for 3pt stuff, cause let’s face it, it’s not unbearably difficult, but it ain’t quick and easy either. But it does look like the carryall idea would give me some serious flexibility. One thing I do not like about this Bx23s is ZERO tool storage options. My front end forks have been amazingly useful, but the backend carryall looks very interesting.
Anyone care to share their best ideas on most functional carryall design? I’m all about cheap and functional, so I’d love to hear what people have created.

 

[leveraddict]

Lets get something straight about ballasted tires........... it creates DOWNWARD force for the tractor - IT DOES NOT add weight TO the tractor itself !!!

It does if its hangin from the ceiling! Kiddin!

 

[leveraddict]

Good to know. I was reluctant to drop and swap the backhoe out for 3pt stuff, cause let’s face it, it’s not unbearably difficult, but it ain’t quick and easy either

Backhoe on a BX23S! 600 lbs of ballast! Are you kidding. About 1 1/2 minutes to put on or take off? I walk slow!
FEL... 1 Min never get off the machine!
3 point takes practice but its half the fun of owning the little beast! Im old school no quick hitch!

 

[NCL4701]

splitting hairs .......... mmmmm........

funny that is what every "discussion" here is about - unless the answer is just wrong - which I have been guilty of .....on occasion. But have no problem owning up when I am.

2 of my 4 Kubotas have loaded tires - for all the reason you and I mention - and why not the other 2? Well ..... just lazy to this point. But I will catch up that soon I hope.

If you run it across a scale it’s all weight but in what some might consider a hair splitting exercise there is a difference in “sprung weight” and “unsprung weight” when considering stability of the overall machine and stress on suspension components. The sprung v unsprung weight terminology is probably more common in automotive, particularly racing, discussions and I’m aware the “springs” in a tractor suspension are a bin full of bolts, but the same principles still apply.

Usually where it gets to be a big deal is in figuring the capacity of the suspension, spring stiffness, shock absorber stiffness and return rate, etc. Just because the car weighs 2500lb doesn’t mean the suspension is tuned for 2500lb. If 500lb is in the wheels, control arms, and anything else below the springs, the suspension needs to be designed and tuned for 2000lb because that’s what the suspension is carrying. Adding unsprung weight will generally add stability but requires no additional capacity in the suspension design. (Maybe a bit of an oversimplification but not much.)

I’m not sure the sprung v unsprung weight issue is quite as big a deal on a tractor, but 500lb of fluid in the rears is a bit different than 500lb of ballast on the 3 point. For the tractor the difference is likely more in the distance from the front axle and height relative to COG. Still there is a difference in spring v unsprung weight and, as someone previously mentioned, if you lift the tires off the ground, that weight is no longer unsprung.

 

[FloridaOrange]

Backhoe on a BX23S! 600 lbs of ballast! Are you kidding. About 1 1/2 minutes to put on or take off? I walk slow!
FEL... 1 Min never get off the machine!
3 point takes practice but its half the fun of owning the little beast! Im old school no quick hitch!

Wow! Guess I struck a nerve with that last dumb statement. Did I not already mention that I was NOT raised around tractors? So I am figuring this out as I go. And, believe it or not, I am reasonably mechanically inclined, but where are the directions for attaching 3 point to implements? I’m dealing with used disc etc, so maybe spacing, etc is all jacked up, but just backing up to the pins is not the end of the story. I still have to make multiple adjustments to draw bars, lift and drop, pull forward, back up, etc. So no, with me the 3 point drop & swap is not a minute and a half project. Just sayin, I am eager to Learn, but can not do so without admitting I am ignorant first. My apologies to one and all for what appear to be obvious questions.

 

[leveraddict]

Sorry Florida Orange I misunderstood your statement! No nerve struck here! Yes hooking up to the implement is a pain. Thats why I started to put my implements up on 4x4 blocks. Then its easier to reposition the implement. I hook up my top link first so if the implement is too high or low I move the tractor forward or rear a bit to lift or lower and align! This is my first tractor also. The more you play with the tractor the easier it will get!

 

[FloridaOrange]

Sorry Florida Orange I misunderstood your statement! No nerve struck here! Yes hooking up to the implement is a pain. Thats why I started to put my implements up on 4x4 blocks. Then its easier to reposition the implement. I hook up my top link first so if the implement is too high or low I move the tractor forward or rear a bit to lift or lower and align! This is my first tractor also. The more you play with the tractor the easier it will get!

Thanks leveraddict. No harm done. My apologies if I got touchy. I agree about things getting easier as you go. Problem is, I just don’t ever seem have the time to spend figuring out some of the “tricks”. Thanks to all y’all on this board for helping ease the learning process.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

1st rule about 3 point implements...have a BIG ,LEVEL, FLAT concrete pad to make life almost bearable....

Usually having the btm pins of the implement say 4-6" off the ground really helps. All implemment pins at the same height would be nice...
Having a separate 'top link' BOLTED to each implement is a HUGE bonus. Adjust once,never again, usually
A working parking brake on the tractor helps !
Spare lynch pins ( or tie them on with rope.....)
Oil helps everything that rotates or slides....

 

[FloridaOrange]

1st rule about 3 point implements...have a BIG ,LEVEL, FLAT concrete pad to make life almost bearable....

Usually having the btm pins of the implement say 4-6" off the ground really helps. All implemment pins at the same height would be nice...
Having a separate 'top link' BOLTED to each implement is a HUGE bonus. Adjust once,never again, usually
A working parking brake on the tractor helps !
Spare lynch pins ( or tie them on with rope.....)
Oil helps everything that rotates or slides....

Yeah, I think you found the root of my problem. No level pad for the implements. My wish list keeps growing and bank account keep shrinking.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

make a pad !
remove overburden( topsoil)
make it fairly level
dump a load or two of 3/4"minus
level it
drive over it a zillion times

 

[DustyRusty]

I have enough popcorn and beer for 6 more pages of this debate. Please keep this going, and when you are done, lets move onto oil and filter debate. It is probably at least 24 hours since that one was brought back to life.

 

[85Hokie]

I have enough popcorn and beer for 6 more pages of this debate. Please keep this going, and when you are done, lets move onto oil and filter debate. It is probably at least 24 hours since that one was brought back to life.

Can we do the oil debate first? I am running out of popcorn and can't drink at school...... and I will forgot what we are talking about by the time I get home!!!!

 

[Henro]

I have enough popcorn and beer for 6 more pages of this debate. Please keep this going, and when you are done, lets move onto oil and filter debate. It is probably at least 24 hours since that one was brought back to life.

Man! I knew I was missing something! No popcorn here!

 

[BadAndy]

I have enough popcorn and beer for 6 more pages of this debate. Please keep this going, and when you are done, lets move onto oil and filter debate. It is probably at least 24 hours since that one was brought back to life.

HAHAHAH!!!