BX2350 Crank, No Start

[fmjnax]

Hey ya'll! I acquired a 2018 (I think that's what he said, but could be 2008) BX2350 yesterday with a crank-no start. 700 hours. Previous owner claimed he got bad diesel. Claimed he drained and flushed the fuel system. Said h put on a new filter and fresh fuel in and it ran for 30 minutes before shutting down. Won't start back up now. Previous owner was not internet savvy and only moderately mechanically inclined.

**I am very much mechanically inclined, but this is my first diesel and first tractor.**

My initial thought was air in the lines from the flush/refill. This is what I have done in the short time I have had it.
- I cracked the fitting at the pump before the filter and we get fuel when the pump is turned on. Didn't appear to be "airy", however, it was only a moderate flow and was "pulsing" (not a steady flow). Not sure at this moment if that is correct or not.
- I closed off that fitting, cracked open the three at the head, and started cranking. Fuel seeps from the nut (very weak flow) and #3 (the furthest to the rear) definitely had air seeping with it. Cranked until the fresh battery got weak and never got rid of the air bubbles.
- During cranking, I do get "puffs" from the exhaust, but the engine never comes close to firing over.
- I noticed that the fuel shutoff solenoid does not seem to move very much. Key off, it pulls the ram in to the solenoid. Key on, it pushes it out. However, we're only talking a few millimeters of travel either way. I cannot push/pull the ram by hand any further than it goes, though, so maybe that is correct.

I am thinking I will drain the fuel system, reverse flush it, and put on a fresh filter (is there 2 on this tractor?) so that I KNOW it is done. Might also look at replacing the fuel line that feeds #3 since that one is seeping air while the other 2 are not. I thought about checking all of the safety switches, but thought maybe I wouldn't get a crank at all if one of them was in fault. What else would you all start checking?

 

[Henro]

Hey ya'll! I acquired a 2018 BX2350 yesterday with a crank-no start. 700 hours. Previous owner claimed he got bad diesel. Claimed he drained and flushed the fuel system. Said h put on a new filter and fresh fuel in and it ran for 30 minutes before shutting down. Won't start back up now. Previous owner was not internet savvy and only moderately mechanically inclined.

**I am very much mechanically inclined, but this is my first diesel and first tractor.**

My initial thought was air in the lines from the flush/refill. This is what I have done in the short time I have had it.
- I cracked the fitting at the pump before the filter and we get fuel when the pump is turned on. Didn't appear to be "airy", however, it was only a moderate flow and was "pulsing" (not a steady flow). Not sure at this moment if that is correct or not.
- I closed off that fitting, cracked open the three at the head, and started cranking. Fuel seeps from the nut (very weak flow) and #3 (the furthest to the rear) definitely had air seeping with it. Cranked until the fresh battery got weak and never got rid of the air bubbles.
- During cranking, I do get "puffs" from the exhaust, but the engine never comes close to firing over.
- I noticed that the fuel shutoff solenoid does not seem to move very much. Key off, it pulls the ram in to the solenoid. Key on, it pushes it out. However, we're only talking a few millimeters of travel either way. I cannot push/pull the ram by hand any further than it goes, though, so maybe that is correct.

I am thinking I will drain the fuel system, reverse flush it, and put on a fresh filter (is there 2 on this tractor?) so that I KNOW it is done. Might also look at replacing the fuel line that feeds #3 since that one is seeping air while the other 2 are not. I thought about checking all of the safety switches, but thought maybe I wouldn't get a crank at all if one of them was in fault. What else would you all start checking?

Until you get a better reply… Here goes,

First, you are correct that if the engine is being turned over, the failure to start is not likely to be a safety switch issue.

Second, I don’t remember exactly why, but I do remember that you don’t want to break the connections at the injector pump, you want to do it at the injectors themselves when you want to check if fuel is flowing or to bleed air out.

third: some BX tractors energize the fuel cut off, solenoid to turn the engine off, and others energize the solenoid to let the engine run. I’m not sure what you have.

I realize this reply is not much help but at least it’s a start until some more knowledgeable people jump in and give you some help.

 

[ve9aa]

Henro had a good reply and I'll just add (ask is more like it) :

Are you running the glow plugs at all?
Some diesels are VERY stubborn and just won't fire up at all, at least without some amount of glowing.
(DON't USE ETHER !)

Related question...if you indeed *ARE* glowing it, for, say, 20-30 seconds, do you know 100% whether they are all drawing current and getting hot?
(note: just because you see a dash light go on or off is not a definitive answer)

I'll leave it there for the moment.

 

[fmjnax]

Thanks guys! I appreciate ANY input!

I'm not convinced the solenoid has any problem at this time since I AM getting some fuel at the injectors (assuming if it's off then no fuel). Just seemed odd to me that the ram only moves in/out a few millimeters.

In terms of the glow plugs, I have let it glow via the key setting for minutes before cranking with no change. If they're ACTUALLY glowing, I don't know yet.

I had my neighbor, whom owns a couple of large Kubota's, come over for a quick look. After checking all of the fittings and how the fuel is moving, he seems to think there is a flow issue somewhere and recommended I take down the entire fuel system, from injectors to tank, and clean it out (which is what I was planning to do anyway). He also questioned whether the glows were actually glowing, so that will be the next thing I'll check barring additional input here.

 

[ve9aa]

Thanks guys! I appreciate ANY input!

I'm not convinced the solenoid has any problem at this time since I AM getting some fuel at the injectors (assuming if it's off then no fuel). Just seemed odd to me that the ram only moves in/out a few millimeters.

In terms of the glow plugs, I have let it glow via the key setting for minutes before cranking with no change. If they're ACTUALLY glowing, I don't know yet.

I had my neighbor, whom owns a couple of large Kubota's, come over for a quick look. After checking all of the fittings and how the fuel is moving, he seems to think there is a flow issue somewhere and recommended I take down the entire fuel system, from injectors to tank, and clean it out (which is what I was planning to do anyway). He also questioned whether the glows were actually glowing, so that will be the next thing I'll check barring additional input here.

OK. Yes, well , you need fuel for sure (and air, so check for mouse nests in the air filter housing)

If you;re good with a multimeter and you understand series/parallel, someone (maybe even me) can walk you through checking the glow plugs (GP's)

I don't know your specific machine, but more likely than not, your 3 (assuming it's a 3cyl) GP's are all in parallel. The quickest initial check you can make is just to see if they're getting voltage.
Set meter to volts (something that can handle 13v or so), black wire to block(ground), red wire to the GP busbar., initialize the GP's....do you see 12-13v on the busbar?

This will ONLY tell you if that first step is met. Who knows...they could all be open (broken, not working) for all we know. But at least you can do that.

If you want, you could try it twice. Once to measure voltage at busbar, then again measure voltage at battery. If you see a big dip at the battery, you can MAYBE assume at least 1 GP is working as they are high current devices and will cause some amount of voltage drop.

There are better ways, but that's 2 voltmeter checks you can do with no equipment and both within 5 minutes very easily.

EDIT: In case it was not obvious, don't crank it for these 2 tests....just run the GP's

 

[Henro]

Thanks guys! I appreciate ANY input!

I'm not convinced the solenoid has any problem at this time since I AM getting some fuel at the injectors (assuming if it's off then no fuel). Just seemed odd to me that the ram only moves in/out a few millimeters.

In terms of the glow plugs, I have let it glow via the key setting for minutes before cranking with no change. If they're ACTUALLY glowing, I don't know yet.

I had my neighbor, whom owns a couple of large Kubota's, come over for a quick look. After checking all of the fittings and how the fuel is moving, he seems to think there is a flow issue somewhere and recommended I take down the entire fuel system, from injectors to tank, and clean it out (which is what I was planning to do anyway). He also questioned whether the glows were actually glowing, so that will be the next thing I'll check barring additional input here.

That is probably good advice. One thing you can do is essentially bottlefeed the injector pump by supplying it with fuel from a container, held above the injector pump and see what happens. If the engine runs like that, then you know you have a fuel supply issue.

Hope this reply is helpful…

 

[RCW]

Good advice so far.

I think you're correct focusing on fuel. Engine cranks, so not thinking any safety switch, etc.

Couple housekeeping things:

• Your BX2350 is a BX-50 series. Came well before 2018. I have a circa 2012 BX2360, and the -60 series came after the 50's. Irrelevant, but just wanted to put it out there.
• Get an BX2350 Owner's Manual from Kubotabooks.com
• I'd also try a BX2360 Workshop Manual from there as well, but understand you have a WSM from a newer model (I think they're close...?)
• A BX2350 WSM would be better, but don't see one there. You can and should get one from a dealer. You sound like you're apt to be able to use one, as you're mechanically inclined.
• Also, you can/will want to see parts diagrams with CURRENT part #'s. Can be had here Kubota Tractor Corporation - Illustrated Parts List (kubotausa.com) Many parts are superseded by new parts…these are current.

Now, the issue - -

• There are 2 fuel filters. One near the Injection Pump, and the other way under the tractor between the fuel tank and electric lift pump...the one way underneath is often missed, and first to plug.
• Do you hear a clicking sound when key is turned to the heat/glow position? That's the lift pump....make sure the lift pump is working.
• I'll post a picture of my stop solenoid shortly.

If it were me....

• I'd first pull the fuel line off the FIRST filter. Make sure good flow out of the tank...BX tractors of all ages are noted for obstructions blocking fuel flow from the tank.
• Maybe change that filter?
• Then I'd make sure lift pump is working by pulling line off inlet to second filter near IP. Should get constant flow, not high pressure.
• Maybe change that filter too - - then you have a baseline for both of them.
• Check the bleeding process from the OP Manual. (My BX2360 is turn key to glow position for 30 (?) seconds.)
• Try to start.
• If no avail, I'd then get looking at Stop Solenioid. The "throw" on mine is more like 3/8" or so. Given age, wonder if either rod of solenoid is binding, or throttle plate on the IP is binding. Maybe it's not opening fully??? For my 60 series, the Stop Solenoid shuts fuel off with the key, then "resets" to RUN/OUT position after 5-10 seconds.

Probably a few things I forgot, but wanted to get back sooner than later.

This is my stop solenoid. Probably 3/8-1/2" throw. Parts diagrams will help if same part number.

 

[RCW]

From Kubota Tractor Corporation - Illustrated Parts List (kubotausa.com)

Your BX2350 stop solenoid looks similar to mine on a BX2360.

 

[cthomas]

I will add have a fully charge battery that is good, as diesels need to turn over at a higher RPM then a gasser and they turn over harder due to the compression ratio is higher. And no matter how tempting it is, DO NOT USE ETHER(starter fluid). Also, glow plugs are nice, but realize not all diesels have them. If the temperature is in the 80's I don't wait for the glow plug light on my truck. If you change both filters you can apply slight pressure to the fuel tank to bled them if you unhook the supply line to the injection pump(or just prefill the filters before installing(messy, but works).

 

[fmjnax]

A lot of good information, thank you all! There's a great wealth of information on this forum!

Based on RCW's info about the stop solenoid, I'm even less concerned with that. Mine looks and behaves the same. I'll keep it in the back of my mind, but will cross that off the list for now.

It'll take me a few days to strip down the fuel system and play with that so I might go radio-silent until I have more information to share.

 

[fmjnax]

Video of the fuel output at the second filter (before and after, same flow rate). It’s not too apparent in the video but the flow is pulsing with the pump. I’m assuming there should be a stronger and more steady flow than this. Am I correct?
Fuel flow

 

[Lug66]

The fuel tank is often overlooked when troubleshooting fuel issues The tanks can get clogged from grass and other debris. These clogs can be sensitive to the fuel level.

 

[RCW]

Video of the fuel output at the second filter (before and after, same flow rate). It’s not too apparent in the video but the flow is pulsing with the pump. I’m assuming there should be a stronger and more steady flow than this. Am I correct?
Fuel flow

I haven’t had to do this test, but thinking you’re good. The lift pumps are only 3-5 psi from memory. Just enough to keep the IP satisfied. The IP does the higher pressure work.

Some BX models will run without a lift pump, but tank needs to be full. Since you’re getting a pulse would seem that lift pump is working as desired.

Did you try to fire it up after bleeding the system per manual procedure?

 

[GreensvilleJay]

I had a look at KubCda parts and your fuel tank is ver very similar to the one in my BX23S. OK, you won't like me but.....spend the time and REMOVE the tank, PROPERLY clean it out. The tank has 3 'chambers' and 'stuff' can float here, there, everywhere....AFTE you 'think' you cleaned it out. In my case a small,cresent shaped piece of plastic FINALLY lodge itself in the fuel exit spigot (or whatever the proper name is ) after a week of start,not run, runs ok, then not......
'Proper ' cleaning of the tank... wash out with water several times, make sure it flow out the spigot, blow air in to remove most water, add Winter WW fluid(alcohol), swish, drain, blow out with air, leave in hot sun for an hour, look inside to be sure ZERO water....blow with air again....just to be 100% sure..THEN reinstall.
Hardest part of the job was I was alone and 2 extra hands to remove the seat and 'floor pan' would have been real nice ! otherwise pretty simple job even following the WSM. Local dealer quoted me 3 hrs shop time to remove/clean/replace tank.. I took a very leisurely 3 days..remove-clean-reinstall. If I'd NEEDED it, I could do it in 4-5 hrs. I'd also replace the TWO fuel filters, just to be 100% sure you're now gettig CLEAN diesel. priming is easy, turn key on for 30 seconds, off for 30 seconds, key on,glowplugs for 5 -10 seconds, start.....It'll run rough for 2-4 minutes, then even out.

Also.. add a filter screen to the fuel inlet filler ! Either a $$ cold coffee mason jar filter or a dollarstore sink drain screen. Keeping 'foreign material' OUT of the tank is kinda important...
So far 4+ years, 800+ hours since I did mine...knock on wood.

 

[fmjnax]

Alright everyone, I'm back for an update.

I took the time to tear down the tractor and totally removed the fuel tank. The sending unit was rusted out (no surprise) and pieces of it were in the tank. I completely cleaned the tank and got every bit of debris out of it.

I went ahead and replaced the entire fuel feed from tank to injector pump; fuel hose, return hose, 2 Kubota filters, Kubota pump. Also purchased a new stop solenoid and fuel sending unit, but still waiting on those to arrive.

While waiting for all of that to arrive, I removed the injection pump, injector lines, and injectors. I soaked those in SeaFoam for 4 days. Injector lines are clean and free of obstruction. The injector pump wasn't collapsed or stuck, everything moves freely as I suspect it should. Not sure on the state of the injectors as I can't push anything through them, but assuming I shouldn't be able to "by hand" anyway.

I put the tank back in place, ran the new filters/pump/lines and hooked it up. (NOT fully bolting it back together until it fires). Ran the pump for a few minutes to start the purge and confirmed it was all clean and pumping like it should after the 2nd filter. After a few minutes, I gave it a crank. Still no fire.

It cranked for a little bit but then tapered off. The battery was drained so it's currently on the charger. However, I decided to check the injector pump output. Removed the injector lines and gave it a crank (after letting the battery charge up a bit; still not full charge though). There is NO pressure coming off of the injector pump. The fuel just kind of bubbles up and out. Does that on all three outputs. So that would make sense why it wouldn't fire; it can't push fuel through the injectors. Heck, I doubt it can even lift the fuel through the injector lines.

Could be that the battery needs to be fully charged for the injector pump to pressurize, but maybe not. In that case, sounds like a new injector pump is in order. Or I guess I could break it down even further and see if something is lodged in there and rebuild it.

Any thoughts on this new bit of information?

 

[RCW]

Wish I had some great suggestions…sounds like you did a good job eliminating a lot of other possible problems.

IP’s can be rebuilt. Seems like the company Oregon Fuel Injection (?) has been mentioned here many times in the past with good recommendations.

Maybe try searching them here on OTT.

No idea what a new IP might cost versus a rebuild.

 

[fmjnax]

Well RCW, your suggestion actually was great! I started the search and came across a YouTube vid of a guy doing a rebuild. That gave me some new info to check and wouldn't you know it, I now have fuel pressurized strongly from the IP in 2 of the 3 outputs. I'll keep playing with it and see if I can get the last one to pressurize and then we'll see where that puts me.

 

[fmjnax]

I ended up pulling the IP again and tore it down a fair bit (pull the retaining spring and pin to get the plunger/spring/cam follower). Cleaned it all up and confirmed I could blow pressurized air through the pump body. Put it back together and back on the machine and confirmed that all 3 outputs are now pressurizing fuel and working.

Put on the injector lines and with the now-fully charged battery I tried to crank it. Still no fire at all. Not even a cough. Pulled the air filter and it's relatively clean, no dust. Should be getting the air it needs.

I'll check the glow bus later today, though it's in the mid-90's here so I didn't think they would be needed to fire. Thought they were for cold weather and help fire off quicker, but not required. This is my first diesel experience, though, so maybe I'm wrong there. Do the glow plugs HAVE to work to get the engine to fire?

So I know I have [good] fuel now. I'm pretty sure I have good air. The last thing a diesel needs is compression, right? While cranking, I put my hand over the exhaust and I feel it puffing, but it's not a strong puff (and I'm not sure if it should be for this engine). I'll pull injector-by-injector and check compression, but I'll have to research what the acceptable psi range is for this engine (unless someone knows and responds before I can find it). I'm hoping this isn't a case of a worn out/blown engine, but I got the tractor for such a good price and I have enough gasser engine rebuild experience that I'll tackle it if that ends up being the case.

Anything else ya'll can think of to check?

 

[fmjnax]

Sorry for the triple post here, but an additional thought. Perhaps the injectors ARE clogged/bad. They certainly didn’t look that great on the outside (rusty). Also, the exhaust just puffs air. No color at all, only a very very faint fuel smell.

 

[Russell King]

You can test the injectors one by one by removing one of the fuel lines between the injector and the pump. Get it out and put it back on the pump so it is pointing out of the tractor and attach one injector and bleed that line and then CAREFULLY have the injector spray onto a piece of cardboard and see what the pattern looks like.

DO NOT get diesel fuel injected through the skin of your hand or body while doing this.

Do some research on this process before you start so you know what you are doing better than what I briefly describe above.