BX23 motor surging, won't start

[nicapopolis]

Hello,

I have a BX23, I believe it is a 2003 or 2004. About 1000 hours.

I have run into an issue where I cannot get this tractor to start. It is surging and not firing. I thought this was starter related, but I replaced the starter and the issue is still occurring. The previous starter engages and spins fine, so I thought maybe it was something internal with the starter that is not giving it enough torque. With the new starter having the same issue, I am ruling that out.

What I have done...

1. Tried jumping straight from my truck.
2. Tried jumping the starter directly.
3. Tried shaking every possible control to remove any hydraulic pressure.
4. Checked to make sure the cam is making a full rotation. It is.

Any other thoughts on what I can try? The motor should be spinning, which leads me to think there is some pressure coming from somewhere.

Here is a video. https://youtube.com/shorts/9mkdp_FZfqg?si=XSjt7J8pgz2h9569

Thank you!

 

[Dave_eng]

Hello,

I have a BX23, I believe it is a 2003 or 2004. About 1000 hours.

I have run into an issue where I cannot get this tractor to start. It is surging and not firing. I thought this was starter related, but I replaced the starter and the issue is still occurring. The previous starter engages and spins fine, so I thought maybe it was something internal with the starter that is not giving it enough torque. With the new starter having the same issue, I am ruling that out.

What I have done...

1. Tried jumping straight from my truck.
2. Tried jumping the starter directly.
3. Tried shaking every possible control to remove any hydraulic pressure.
4. Checked to make sure the cam is making a full rotation. It is.

Any other thoughts on what I can try? The motor should be spinning, which leads me to think there is some pressure coming from somewhere.

Here is a video. https://youtube.com/shorts/9mkdp_FZfqg?si=XSjt7J8pgz2h9569

Thank you!

Send us a photo of the top of your battery and also where the battery ground connects to the tractor frame/body. You have a high resistance connection somewhere. I would first remove the battery ground from the frame and really clean it.
Here is an example from another members tractor.

When this connection is poor not amount of jumping the battery or jumping the starter can work
Dave

 

[nicapopolis]

Send us a photo of the top of your battery and also where the battery ground connects to the tractor frame/body. You have a high resistance connection somewhere. I would first remove the battery ground from the frame and really clean it.
Here is an example from another members tractor.

View attachment 119011
When this connection is poor not amount of jumping the battery or jumping the starter can work
Dave

Thank you, Dave.

They do not look terrible, but I will clean them anyway just to rule it out.

I have attached pics of the motor ground to the frame.

I also attached where the battery ground attaches to the frame. It is greasy, but does not seem loose at all. None of them seem loose.

 

[Dave_eng]

Thank you, Dave.

They do not look terrible, but I will clean them anyway just to rule it out.

I have attached pics of the motor ground to the frame.

I also attached where the battery ground attaches to the frame. It is greasy, but does not seem loose at all. None of them seem loose.

What your photos show is that the battery ground connection is not one cable but two. Battery to frame and then frame to engine. Lots of places for a poor connection. They can be tight but rusty or painted thus inhibiting the electrical connection.
I would still like to see the top of your battery
Dave

 

[Runs With Scissors]

I watched your video, and that surging sounds exactly like my truck the last time the batteries needed to be replaced.

I agree with Dave, I would check all the grounds and connections first. After all, checking connections/grounds is always your first step in troubleshooting anything electrical (and it's cheap)

Then I would have the battery tested after you clean and inspect the grounds and connections.

Also check the + and - battery cables for "bulges" which could be internal corrosion.

 

[D2Cat]

If you replace battery cables i"d suggest running the ground directly to the starter. If another ground is wanted to the frame that's fine, just don't have the ground to frame and then starter.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

Replace ALL the battery cables.
From the pictures the ends of the cables are 'open',so moisture wicks into the stranded core, corrosion starts and continues for the past 20 years....

 

[John T]

If you replace battery cables i"d suggest running the ground directly to the starter. If another ground is wanted to the frame that's fine, just don't have the ground to frame and then starter.

good Idea.
also extra ground points never hurt.

I would throw my battery charge on the 200 amp start setting and give it a whirl.
I'd bet it fires right up.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

If you jump at the battery, odds are no if the cables are corroded. They present too much resistance to allow the current to flow.
Simple test is to jumper AT the starter and frame, bypassing the battery cables.

 

[nicapopolis]

What your photos show is that the battery ground connection is not one cable but two. Battery to frame and then frame to engine. Lots of places for a poor connection. They can be tight but rusty or painted thus inhibiting the electrical connection.
I would still like to see the top of your battery
Dave

I have attached the battery pics. I have wire brushed the battery studs and cleaned up the cables previously.

Either way I have been jumping straight from my running truck and I have been jumping directly to the starter from my truck and getting the exact same problem. Wouldn't that bypass any issue with the battery and ground from the battery? Therefore, I should only have to worry about the ground from the motor to the frame?

As a matter of ruling out any ground issue, I will start by cleaning up the ground cables and getting rid of any rust.

 

[Dave_eng]

I have attached the battery pics. I have wire brushed the battery studs and cleaned up the cables previously.

Either way I have been jumping straight from my running truck and I have been jumping directly to the starter from my truck and getting the exact same problem. Wouldn't that bypass any issue with the battery and ground from the battery? Therefore, I should only have to worry about the ground from the motor to the frame?

As a matter of ruling out any ground issue, I will start by cleaning up the ground cables and getting rid of any rust.

By chance do you have a multimeter and know how to use it.
When you jump from your truck to the starter where do you connect the ground connection?
If you read the attached file you will quickly see that voltage drop throughout the system supplying the starter is almost always the problem.
If the multimeter is beyond your skill level then follow Greensvillejay's advice and replace all cables. Tt will be money well spent.
Run the new ground cable to the starter mounting bolt and then another short cable back to the frame. This is the opposite of how things are now wired.
Dave

 

[John T]

Ya know......

Seems like it's got too much compression...

Ever check the valves? Could be the exhaust valve clearance.... not opening enough.

 

[John T]

I have run into an issue where I cannot get this tractor to start. .

Any update on this?

 

[nicapopolis]

Any update on this?

I have someone coming by today who has been a tractor mechanic for many years. I was at a complete loss. I will keep the thread updated.

 

[nicapopolis]

It is the typical... The IT guy looks over your shoulder and your computer works...

Even though I thought I cleaned the battery connectors well enough, I apparently did not. The guy who helped me used a wire brush, but then took a file and cleaned the inside of the battery connector down to bare metal.

He explained that even though I was jumping from the truck, the jumper cables weren't a heavy enough gauge. Okay to give the battery a bump, but not enough to turn her over. He mentioned that the positive wire on the battery is what would carry the current to the starter and why it is so important.

This makes a lot more sense and something I will carry into the future. Great to have a professional show you how it is done. I appreciate all the comments here, as many of them were spot on, but when you see it done in person you can recognize your faults.

 

[Runs With Scissors]

It is the typical... The IT guy looks over your shoulder and your computer works...

Even though I thought I cleaned the battery connectors well enough, I apparently did not. The guy who helped me used a wire brush, but then took a file and cleaned the inside of the battery connector down to bare metal.

He explained that even though I was jumping from the truck, the jumper cables weren't a heavy enough gauge. Okay to give the battery a bump, but not enough to turn her over. He mentioned that the positive wire on the battery is what would carry the current to the starter and why it is so important.

This makes a lot more sense and something I will carry into the future. Great to have a professional show you how it is done. I appreciate all the comments here, as many of them were spot on, but when you see it done in person you can recognize your faults.

The "silver lining" to this tale, is that you learned something from it.

I'm quite sure that everyone here has had a similar experience of over-looking the obvious at some point in their "trouble shooting" life.

I'm glad that it worked out to be something simple for you.



Just be thankful that you're not the guy that burnt through 3 drill bits, gallons of cutting fluid with smoke pouring out for 30 minutes just to have your buddy walk past and say "your in F'ing reverse Dumbass"

 

[John T]

.



Just be thankful that you're not the guy that burnt through 3 drill bits, gallons of cutting fluid with smoke pouring out for 30 minutes just to have your buddy walk past and say "your in F'ing reverse Dumbass"

on a sidenote.....

Left handed drill bits can be a lifesaver... in certain circumstances.

 

[D2Cat]

It is the typical... The IT guy looks over your shoulder and your computer works...

Even though I thought I cleaned the battery connectors well enough, I apparently did not. The guy who helped me used a wire brush, but then took a file and cleaned the inside of the battery connector down to bare metal.

He explained that even though I was jumping from the truck, the jumper cables weren't a heavy enough gauge. Okay to give the battery a bump, but not enough to turn her over. He mentioned that the positive wire on the battery is what would carry the current to the starter and why it is so important.

This makes a lot more sense and something I will carry into the future. Great to have a professional show you how it is done. I appreciate all the comments here, as many of them were spot on, but when you see it done in person you can recognize your faults.

You might need an addition to your tool box.

 

[PoTreeBoy]

He mentioned that the positive wire on the battery is what would carry the current to the starter and why it is so important.

Just remember, the negative wire (ground) is just as important. A complete circuit is required.

 

[85Hokie]

Just remember, the negative wire (ground) is just as important. A complete circuit is required.

Another life lesson - what goes, has to come back! All them little electrons need the same size conductor to get from A to B if the load demands it.