BX2200 Electrical Gremlins

[Kubota77340]

Have a well-used BX2200 with electrical gremlins I can't figure out.

Several issues- the first is that the tractor won't shut off when the key is selected to "off". Previous owner rigged up a coat hanger on the fuel control to shut it off, which works but leads me to believe the tractor may have a lot more time on it than advertised, as the tractor runs fine with the key "off". The headlights have not worked in the time I've owned the tractor, and both have tested-good bulbs.

Second, and this one is a bit newer, all the lights on the dash and the rear running lights light up when the tractor is powered on. Position of the dash switches changes nothing. There are several "aftermarket" connectors under the seat that lead to nowhere, and there's a connector on top of the engine also connected to nothing.

I'm assuming I have a bad ground somewhere, or a short, but tracing out all the wires I can has revealed no faults so far. Any thoughts?

 

[85Hokie]

On the fuel control..... I take it that it WAS an electrical solenoid that cuts it off and now it is mechanical?
IF so - current is not getting to it to pull it back off or there is an open circuit somewhere in the system.
I bet all the "other" electrical wiring may have something to do with that too.

Start here and read this - it may help

https://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/threads/bx2200-fuel-solenoid-issue.39982/#post-339085



Headlights should be an easy trace to see where the open circuit is located..... check the bulbs first, the the socket for 12+ volts then back track to switch and source for voltage.

I am thinking that your "problems" all may be ign switch related - if that switch was bad - then it could make the lights not work and the dash lights stay on ......

let us know what you find.

 

[Kubota77340]

On the fuel control..... I take it that it WAS an electrical solenoid that cuts it off and now it is mechanical?
IF so - current is not getting to it to pull it back off or there is an open circuit somewhere in the system.
I bet all the "other" electrical wiring may have something to do with that too.

Start here and read this - it may help

https://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/threads/bx2200-fuel-solenoid-issue.39982/#post-339085



Headlights should be an easy trace to see where the open circuit is located..... check the bulbs first, the the socket for 12+ volts then back track to switch and source for voltage.

I am thinking that your "problems" all may be ign switch related - if that switch was bad - then it could make the lights not work and the dash lights stay on ......

let us know what you find.

Thank you, 85Hokie. I have an ignition switch on hand anticipating this might be the problem, but have not had a chance to install. Will do tonight, time permitting, and let you know what I find.

 

[85Hokie]

What I hate - and have been guilty OF - is bypassing a problem and adding more wires to solve a problem, knowing all the time - JUST fix the one wire !!!!

I hope the switch solves a few of the problems - hell, at least one!

 

[OrangeKrush]

I’m not sure about those wires on the first photo on the bx2200 but they could be the factory auxiliary leads for extra lighting. My newer BX has two hot..one keyed and one from the battery and a ground which would be the black.
In the same area.. good possibility!

 

[GreensvilleJay]

Step Number one : GEt a proper wiring diagram for your tractor !!!!!!
Step 2: do NOT install new switch until you've got #1 !!
step 3 : check ALL the wiring, make notes/pictures of anything 'suspect' ( wrong colours,splices, etc.)

 

[Dave_eng]

Re dash lights.

Do they go out once tractor starts. If so then all OK.

The bulbs light up to prove to operator they are not blown.

Dave

 

[whitetiger]

The Red/Black and Black wires in your first picture are for adding a rear work light.
The White connector with White wire is for the fuel shut-off solenoid on a BX1800 with the D722 engine.
Here is a wiring schematic for your tractor. It includes the shutoff solenoid wiring for the D722 engine also, you need to disregard that part.

 

[Henro]

The Red/Black and Black wires in your first picture are for adding a rear work light.
The White connector with White wire is for the fuel shut-off solenoid on a BX1800 with the D722 engine.
Here is a wiring schematic for your tractor. It includes the shutoff solenoid wiring for the D722 engine also, you need to disregard that part.

Just to add a tidbit...the BX2200 fuel cutoff solenoid is spring loaded to extend to the fuel cutoff position when de-energized. It must be energized to pull the plunger (armature, pin, whatever) back so the tractor will start.

The solenoid has two coils, one is the hold coil that is energized when the key is turned to the on position, but this coil is not strong enough to pull the solenoid in, just strong enough to hold the plunger in when the pin (armature) is pulled into the run position by the start coil (not sure of the kubota designation).

The start coil is energized when the starter turns. The starter turns when the contacts in the safety circuit are all closed and the key is turned to the start position.

Just mentioning this in case it is not obvious...

 

[Jim L.]

It may seem pretty complex, but one way to look at it is that the entire electrical system is made of bunches of individual circuits. With the wiring diagram you can approach the issues circuit by circuit.

For example, the headlights. Isolate that circuit. As you disconnect connectors, ohm or ring-out the conductors between them. And mark the wiring diagram with a highliter so you don't lose track of what has been checked. Individual components such as switches can be checked either with the wiring diagram or from the Workshop Manual.

Your big problem sounds like someone kludged quick "fixes" to keep running. I would especially check out switches, relays, etc., and get back to something that matches the wiring diagram.

 

[Kubota77340]

Thanks much to everyone who commented, and special thanks to whitetiger for the wiring diagram. That's extremely helpful.

Thought I'd update everyone quickly about this- needed to move the tractor from its place in front of the garage as we had a group of folks over tonight, and had just gotten a repaired wheel/tire back so the timing was good. Key switch was fine- I checked all connections, and they're all working as expected. Just in case I missed something, I threw the new key switch on and tried it out (it's one connector, no big deal. Started the tractor (new battery, old one died in the recent Texas snowmageddon) and same behavior as before. Start and preheat work fine, but it won't shut off and the turn signals stay on continuously.

I agree with the kludge comment- I am sure I'm missing a mixed up connection somewhere, and will have to dig into it when I have some time. Should have a little time tomorrow night to keep checking.

 

[Kubota77340]

The Red/Black and Black wires in your first picture are for adding a rear work light.
The White connector with White wire is for the fuel shut-off solenoid on a BX1800 with the D722 engine.
Here is a wiring schematic for your tractor. It includes the shutoff solenoid wiring for the D722 engine also, you need to disregard that part.

D905 engine on my 2200. Not sure how much that changes the wiring?

 

[whitetiger]

D905 engine on my 2200. Not sure how much that changes the wiring?

The only difference between the two tractors' wiring is for the fuel shutoffs. Just disregard the shutoff for the D722 (BX1800) and you will be good.

 

[Henro]

Start and preheat work fine, but it won't shut off...

I suggest you read my post above again. On the BX2200 voltage is required to keep the engine running. Voltage should dissapear when you turn the key to the off position. So either you have a short someone in the wiring that is keeping the stop solenoid energized in the run position all the time, or the solenoid is stuck physically in the run position (pulled in) so the tractor does not shut off.

OR I Suppose you could have something going on inside the injector pump.

There is a procedure for checking the solenoid outlined in the workshop manual. I would suggest you do more than speculate and change parts, and actually do some troubleshooting to narrow in on the real issue.

Example, would be to remove the solenoid and physically inspect it by pushing on the pin and seeing if it goes in and if the spring returns it when you let go.

With the solenoid out (Or installed and unplugged), turn the key on and see if you have voltage on one of the wires. (The starter will not turn over when the solenoid is unplugged (or removed) if you wiring is in the normal state.) Turn the key to the start position and see if voltage appears on the other wire in the plug/socket (don't remember which is which).

The NORMAL sequence is for voltage to appear on the wire feeding the hold coil when the key is in any position other than off, and for voltage to appear on the start/pull in coil when the key is turned to the start position.

If you do not take the time to some basic troubleshooting you are relying on guesswork, which MIGHT eventually lead you to fix the problem. Using logical troubleshooting practices will get you there much faster with less frustration.

 

[Dustyx2]

Henro's description of operation is correct. I have a BX22 which is the same tractor except in TLB version.
There is also a 20 amp fuse that feeds the solenoid but if it starts and runs, that fuse is good. Sounds to me like the solenoid plunger is stuck in the on position or something mechanical wrong with it.
I had to take my dash rocker switches out and take them apart and clean them to get them working. They get packed with crud and won't make contact. That may be why the headlights don't work but probably has nothing to do with the turn signals/marker lights staying on.

 

[Kubota77340]

Finally had some time to do detailed troubleshooting today. The key witch was a shot in the dark, hoping it would work since I had it on hand.

There is no voltage at the solenoid regardless of key position; continuity to ground is fine. In fact, all ground connections on the tractor are good, tested out. I'm not sure how much pressure should be required to depress the solenoid but it didn't move easily. I did not find any broken wires.

Headlights never get voltage regardless of switch position; the bulbs test good and have visibly good filaments and good wiring to the instrument panel.

All fuses have good continuity. All slots in the fuse block that have wiring to them have fuses installed; the slow-blow fuse on the starter is obviously unaffected as it starts fine. The fuel pump runs fine also, it can be heard running. Preheat/glow plugs also work fine. Importantly, the fuel gauge works fine, which shares a common circuit with the fuel pump and rear lights from what I see on the diagram.

Here's where things get a little odd. Referencing the wiring diagram, several items are missing from it- there are 2 additional safety switches for the transmission selector and PTO selector which don't appear on the diagram in addition to the 2 seat safety switches, which work as intended and prevent the tractor from starting when those levers are selected into the "on" position. Also, the wiring colors specified are different on my tractor versus what's on the diagram, particularly for the fuel solenoid, and the installed harness and solenoid have only 2 wires versus the 3 specified for a D905 engine; there are no missing connections on the connector to the solenoid so it's not like it's been modified. The empty connector on top of the engine (see photos from original post) has no obvious mate, and it's not long enough to reach the solenoid and has a different connector style in any case.

There's a also a third box under the instrument panel; see the photo. While not appearing on the wiring diagram for a D905 engine, it is listed for the 722 engine; the Messicks catalog says it's a timer relay. One of the wires from the solenoid runs to this box; I manually traced it out. The other two boxes are the regulator and the other is the flasher unit. If anyone has test protocols for these boxes, they'd be appreciated.

With all this in mind, I think I have two issues; it appears the flasher unit is fried, continually supplying voltage to the rear lights. I think the timer box may also be bad, resulting in power not reaching the front end of the tractor; or possibly a cut wire somewhere not supplying voltage to the timer box. I haven't found so much as a chafed wire, much less one cut, but I'll keep digging.

Additional troubleshooting tomorrow, happy to take any feedback to this point.

-Kubota77340

 

[Dustyx2]

You lost me. Sounds like you are describing the start system on my Kubota ZD21. This is not what a BX2200 should have. I looked up the Messick parts for a BX2200D and it shows what my BX22 has. No safety timer relay box. The only 2 "boxes" you should have under the dash are the IC regulator and the flasher. It's been years since I looked under the dash of my BX so I can't say what your picture is of, but it is NOT a timer relay like is on my ZD. I suspect it is the regulator but not sure without looking at mine. A timer would have the the fuel solenoid wired to it. I have no idea what you have going on.

 

[Kubota77340]

You lost me. Sounds like you are describing the start system on my Kubota ZD21. This is not what a BX2200 should have. I looked up the Messick parts for a BX2200D and it shows what my BX22 has. No safety timer relay box. The only 2 "boxes" you should have under the dash are the IC regulator and the flasher. It's been years since I looked under the dash of my BX so I can't say what your picture is of, but it is NOT a timer relay like is on my ZD. I suspect it is the regulator but not sure without looking at mine. A timer would have the the fuel solenoid wired to it. I have no idea what you have going on.

Thanks, Dustyx2. SN is 72363, if that matters. Definitely a D905 engine by the tag and the cast number on the block.

 

[whitetiger]

The empty connector on top of the engine (see photos from original post) has no obvious mate, and it's not long enough to reach the solenoid and has a different connector style in any case.

That connector is only used to power the shut-off on a D722 engine. It is not used on your engine.
The attached pdf shows the test procedure for the solenoid.
I am a little confused as to why your tractor has the #061700-3770 Denso Timer Relay you posted a picture of on it. Have you looked at the ID tag on the frame of your tractor and confirmed that it is infact a BX2200?
(EDIT) If it has the D905, it would have to be a BX2200 or BX22.

 

[Dustyx2]

So that is a timer in his picture. So which fuel stop is on this BX. The top picture is like the one on my ZD that has the stop timer. The bottom one is what my BX22 has. My ZD timer has about a dozen wires to it and looks nothing like his picture. I suppose the ZD is different due to the many safety switches involved.