BX1800 Starting Issue - not engaging

[rossdepanfilis]

I have a BX1800, sometimes it starts, sometimes it doesn’t.

The issue is the starter bendix doesn’t always match up with the gears on the flywheel (not sure if correct name). So I have to manually rotate the flywheel a little bit and try again. When they match up the engine will start.

Anyone know a fix?

 

[Russell King]

Sounds like the starter could be loose at the mounting surface or the starter is in need of repair or replacement.


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[SidecarFlip]

Sounds like the starter could be loose at the mounting surface or the starter is in need of repair or replacement.


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...or the Bendix is hanging up. The way they work is, the shaft the starter gear is on has a fast spiral so the starter gear rotates as it engages the flywheel, always. Sounds to me like the Bendix is sticking and you can take it apart and clean the contacts and lubricate the plunger.

 

[Henro]

...or the Bendix is hanging up. The way they work is, the shaft the starter gear is on has a fast spiral so the starter gear rotates as it engages the flywheel, always. Sounds to me like the Bendix is sticking and you can take it apart and clean the contacts and lubricate the plunger.

Or a tooth or two may be broken off the flywheel...

 

[rossdepanfilis]

I’ll have to check to make sure the starter isn’t loose... I don’t think it’s a broken tooth on the flywheel.

When I try to start the tractor the plunger will come out and hit into the fly wheel and I have to rotate the flywheel a bit so it doesn’t hit tooth to tooth.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Or a tooth or two may be broken off the flywheel...

If it is, he's screwed.

 

[rossdepanfilis]

If it is, he's screwed.

That’s it “wifey! I need a new tractor!”

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

A starter bendix does not care about the position of the flywheel.

Sounds like the starter bendix is damaged and you need a new starter.

 

[SidecarFlip]

A starter bendix does not care about the position of the flywheel.

Sounds like the starter bendix is damaged and you need a new starter.

Better than a new tractor and an unhappy wife.

 

[rossdepanfilis]

I'll start my search for a new starter...

thanks for the help! I'll try and keep yall updated!

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

I'll start my search for a new starter...

thanks for the help! I'll try and keep yall updated!

I've bought quite a few parts form these guys and never a problem.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-STARTE...dJeFDSL:sc:ShippingMethodStandard!83864!US!-1

 

[bird dogger]

I have a BX1800, sometimes it starts, sometimes it doesn’t.

The issue is the starter bendix doesn’t always match up with the gears on the flywheel (not sure if correct name). So I have to manually rotate the flywheel a little bit and try again. When they match up the engine will start.

Anyone know a fix?

Here’s another thought, as your problem sounds very similar to one I had on my JD750 compact tractor.

After a number of years (20?) my starter was failing to engage as you state. After the usual tricks to get the starter to engage failed more frequently it needed to get fixed. Removing the starter revealed the Bendix gear had worn edges on all the teeth. But also, inspecting the starter ring gear revealed worn teeth where the starter had engaged so often. With it being a 3 cylinder diesel the ring gear was badly worn in 3 different areas spaced 120 degrees apart, where the engine would normally come to a stop upon shutdown. Just a new starter would’ve helped for a short while but I was able to find a new starter ring gear for the engine and replaced it. The original ring gear could’ve been removed and replaced about 60 degrees into a new position (virtually no wear in those spots) but since I had the new ring gear it was installed. It wasn’t a tough job but involved splitting the tractor and using some heat to expand the ring gear for removal/installation. After the new ring gear and Bendix gear installation the tractor started like new again.

I could probably find the old ring gear and take some pics for you if you’d like. But depending on how old your tractor is, it might pay to give your starter ring gear a close inspection for excessive wear as well. And if it’s worn in one area, check the other areas as well, depending on the number of cylinders on the engine.

Regards,
David

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

If you do want to do like bird dogger is saying, here is one for fairly inexpensive.

https://www.amazon.com/Generic-KUBOTA-GEAR-RING-16813-63820/dp/B07B8DXYPV

 

[bird dogger]

I dug out my old ring gear and took some pics just for show and tell. Here's the old one with green tape marking the 3 areas of high wear spaced 120 degrees apart.


And a close up (two views) of those highly worn areas. You can even see the pattern of where the engine usually stops and the lesser wear areas to each side.



Here's a pic of the area between those high wear areas. Very minimal starter engagement ever took place in these areas which kinda supports the idea that in a pinch you could remove the ring gear and just rotate it 60 degrees (for 3 cyl. engine) and reinstall it again.


I can't recall how many hours were on the tractor (JD750) at this time but it was probably pushing close to 2500-3000 hours. It now has just over 4K on it. A lot of work has been performed by that 20 HP tractor over the years!

David

 

[Russell King]

Birddogger,

How do you remove and replace the ring gear? I guess it is just shrunk onto the flywheel? Does it press against a shoulder or not?


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[bird dogger]

Birddogger,

How do you remove and replace the ring gear? I guess it is just shrunk onto the flywheel? Does it press against a shoulder or not?


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Hey Russell King! Yup, it's a heat/shrink press fit onto the flywheel. After splitting the tractor and removing the flywheel it's easier to quickly apply heat with a torch directly to the ring gear. I don't remember exactly but I think there was a spot on the flywheel to allow a prybar between it and the gear to start working it off the flywheel. I had a buddy helping to apply the heat while I quickly worked the ring gear up and off. And yes, it's pressed on against a shoulder on the flywheel.

To install the new one: Cooled the flywheel down again to room temp or below. We had the new ring resting up on a few nails pounded into a piece of plywood next to the flywheel. Heat the ring gear up and quickly place on flywheel and start tapping it back into place while still applying heat. And it didn't take much heat to allow it to be tapped back into position. Might have been a crude way of doing it but it worked slick and went with no problems. A rare occasion! Probably took no more than an hour to change the gear out and the rest of a full day to split and put the two tractor halves back together again.

Regards,
David

Edit: I think the ring gear price was similar to what NIW showed above....way less than $100. But the quote to have the JD dealership to do it was somewhere shy of a couple grand. and they wouldn't give me a time frame to do it in as they'd have to work it in between their larger tractor jobs. Apparently a scheduled appointment wasn't a scheduled appointment with them. As it turned out I saved a lot of money, the job was done in a day, my helper got to drink cold beer, and in the end....when I went looking for a newer tractor.....I went to Kubota.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Toss the flywheel in the freezer overnight and the ring gear on the BBQ for 30 min and you'll be golden.

 

[GeoHorn]

I’ve done this on several machines/cars/trucks and I found it very easy to ...

... Remove the flywheel and heat the ring gear ONLY using a propane torch for a few minutes, then lay it upon an anvil or other suitable table/object to support the wheel allowing the ring gear to hang over edge and tap it circumferentially with a mallet and punch to remove it. (Alternatively it is easily pressed-off in a shop hyd press.)

Place the flywheel in the freezer for a couple hours. Place the new ring gear in the kitchen oven set to 350-F for one hour. (No higher than 350 so as to not affect temper.)

Place the frozen flywheel upon a sturdy surface. (I have an oak tree stump I cut down many years ago which has come in so-handy for many projects over the years.). Using hot-mitts, remove the ring gear and place it on the flywheel (paying attention to which side might have a chamfer... I hope you looked at your old one).... and, if required, QUICKLY tap it circumferentially to seat it onto the flywheel.

In a half-dozen I’ve done ... I only had to use a hammer to insure the gear was completely seated. They all virtually plopped down in-place.

QUICKLY because it doesn’t take long for them to equalize...that cold flywheel sucks the heat out of the gear.

Hope this helps.

 

[Henro]

I did not quote Bird Dogger's post since it was pretty long with images as well...

As a guy that knows nothing about the interface between the bendix gear and the flywheel gear, I will say I am amazed that with that much of each tooth remaining that there was an issue.

Can not help but wonder if there might be a modification that could be made to the bendix gear, to make it more likely to move in between the worn flywheel teeth.

I am sure I am missing something...Perhaps the shaft the bendix gear is mounted on is striking a tooth and preventing normal gear engagement?

This inquiring mind would like to understand more...

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

I did not quote Bird Dogger's post since it was pretty long with images as well...

As a guy that knows nothing about the interface between the bendix gear and the flywheel gear, I will say I am amazed that with that much of each tooth remaining that there was an issue.

Can not help but wonder if there might be a modification that could be made to the bendix gear, to make it more likely to move in between the worn flywheel teeth.

I am sure I am missing something...Perhaps the shaft the bendix gear is mounted on is striking a tooth and preventing normal gear engagement?

This inquiring mind would like to understand more...

Let me see if I can clarify what the most likely issue with the starter is in this case.

The bendix surves 2 function to interact with the flywheel, it pushes the gear into the flywheel and turns it has sloped teeth that when engaging the flywheel cause it to mesh this is also aided with the bendix gear having the ability to free spin in the opposite direction, this allows for a tight and solid alignment when the teeth don't match upon it hitting the flywheel.

When the bendix has a bad clutch, bad bearings, or oddly worn teeth the alinement won't happen easily or at all.

This issue can also be two fold, and be caused or complicated by the flywheel teeth being worn.

To the OP:
Do Not try and turn the flywheel on the crank, while it looks like the holes are all the same, they are not.
When reinstalling the flywheel, hand thread all the bolts in before you wrench tighten them.