BX-25 Speed of backhoe?

[Nick-BX25]

I'm having slow wheel drive but also think my Backhoe is slow. Can't make a hill in bunny gear. Review of past threads say look for linkage problems. I'm off to do that now. Check fluid level at same time. Last summer was very hard as We dug out 24 large pines (12-14" diameter) that a previous owner planted next to a 75' garage. Trees were causing all kinds of problems, water draining in garage, gutter full, pwr line issues as well. Took most of the summer to dig them out. Pressure relief valve was certainly screaming a lot. Fluid and filter just changed after the job was complete. Apparent that it had been hot but we also let it cool off frequently.

Anyway, to the question? Has anybody timed how fat the Backhoe goes from start to end? any Hyd cylinder? All Cylinders? I'd like an idea to compare mine. at say 2600 RPM? I have never looked into pressure testing. I can and will but an idea of IF there is a problem seemed like a good place to start. Thanks for your time all!

 

[85Hokie]

ON that machine ........... UP an incline is not going to happen well at all.

The weight of the FEL and the BH adds a tremendous strain on the machine. Now there are those that will tell you to back off the pedal a bit, pushing to hard too fast will loose power. But that is not the case here.

AS for boom out and dipper down and up - all those are not extremely fast - but then again, one persons fast is another persons slow!!!!

2600 rpms ----- gonna be a little slow, if you bump that rpm up = does it speed up? It should.

I will go home and check mine for you - it might be a few days (raining like crazy here)

Now - there is a "nut" that will not allow you to move "fast" across level ground ......... it is located at the end of the linkage behind the right rear tire - it is a PITA to get to - but if that is loose - you will move slow...period. BUT that nut has nothing to do with hoe movement.

 

[Nick-BX25]

ON that machine ........... UP an incline is not going to happen well at all.

The weight of the FEL and the BH adds a tremendous strain on the machine. Now there are those that will tell you to back off the pedal a bit, pushing to hard too fast will loose power. But that is not the case here.

AS for boom out and dipper down and up - all those are not extremely fast - but then again, one persons fast is another persons slow!!!!

2600 rpms ----- gonna be a little slow, if you bump that rpm up = does it speed up? It should.

I will go home and check mine for you - it might be a few days (raining like crazy here)

Now - there is a "nut" that will not allow you to move "fast" across level ground ......... it is located at the end of the linkage behind the right rear tire - it is a PITA to get to - but if that is loose - you will move slow...period. BUT that nut has nothing to do with hoe movement.

Well, it seems if I get the RMP up to 3K I just hit the bypass valve more often. Yes, it does increase the speed. What speed you you dig at?

Rain, Sigh.. I did fix my wheel speed. Rock jammed at the reverse pedal. Good fit. Needed chisel to get it out. Now hitting stop bolts fwd and reverse, Zoom It is not a fassst tractor but so often, it carries, drags and pushes things I can't.

Did check fluid which was down about 1/2 the checkerboard. Wish I knew how much that meant in fl. ozs. Found I could not find my special funnel, or My UDT, or my NEW replacement dipstick which has a loop on it. Moved my son-in-law in next door last spring. Next door is a long way. Walked to his place. came back through my muddy shed. Found everything but the overpriced dipstick with the shipping overcharged. Now I need more UDT fluid which is 45 minutes one way or again, overpriced shipping.
Typical spring day, can't find my Shxt. But, I'm smiling. This is retired life. No hurry, no worry!

If you could time your cylinder I'd say Thanks!
Thanks!

 

[85Hokie]

Well, it seems if I get the RMP up to 3K I just hit the bypass valve more often. Yes, it does increase the speed. What speed you you dig at?

Rain, Sigh.. I did fix my wheel speed. Rock jammed at the reverse pedal. Good fit. Needed chisel to get it out. Now hitting stop bolts fwd and reverse, Zoom It is not a fassst tractor but so often, it carries, drags and pushes things I can't.

Did check fluid which was down about 1/2 the checkerboard. Wish I knew how much that meant in fl. ozs. Found I could not find my special funnel, or My UDT, or my NEW replacement dipstick which has a loop on it. Moved my son-in-law in next door last spring. Next door is a long way. Walked to his place. came back through my muddy shed. Found everything but the overpriced dipstick with the shipping overcharged. Now I need more UDT fluid which is 45 minutes one way or again, overpriced shipping.
Typical spring day, can't find my Shxt. But, I'm smiling. This is retired life. No hurry, no worry!

If you could time your cylinder I'd say Thanks!
Thanks!

If I am digging in an "open" field - a place with nothing around, I will be 3k .......... the only concern there is the swing function - that can be erratic and somewhat dangerous.

If I am pinned and have someone down in the ditch so to speak ......I will back it back down to 2400 ....simply due to being safe.

Being more specific - DO you want the boom vertical then flair out the dipper stick? OR do you want BOOM vertical to moving all the way down? Or both?

 

[Henro]

ON that machine ........... UP an incline is not going to happen well at all.

Frankly I don't understand this comment. Granted, MY bx2200 does not have a backhoe or loader. BUT I do know when pulling my 5x8 road legal dump trailer with the BX, with a more than 2000 pounds in it, up hill, the tires spin when I lose traction, but the engine does not bog down at all. AND 99 percent of the time I get where I am going.

My question would be to the OP, what gear range are you in when the issue happens. Rabbit? If so time to use turtle.

Now I get it that MAYBE the added weight of the loader and backhoe adds more traction, and MAYBE the net result is that the BX runs out of moxie since the tires may not spin before power available is exceeded, due to the increased weight the loader and backhoe add. BUT what is the chances of that being the case? Do not know...

Now with my larger B2910, which does have a loader and backhoe, I never noticed any issues with power going up hill. Not exactly apples and apples, but similar. Larger tractor, larger backhoe, larger loader, a little more HP, and no issues if I am in the correct gear range...

Edit: I see after reading the original post again, the OP IS using Bunny gear...Solution, use turtle....no brainer once you realize it...

2nd Edit: I get 85Hokie's comment now. HE actually read and understood the OP's post. Unlike me until the second read...LOL

 

[Nick-BX25]

If I am digging in an "open" field - a place with nothing around, I will be 3k .......... the only concern there is the swing function - that can be erratic and somewhat dangerous.

If I am pinned and have someone down in the ditch so to speak ......I will back it back down to 2400 ....simply due to being safe.

Being more specific - DO you want the boom vertical then flair out the dipper stick? OR do you want BOOM vertical to moving all the way down? Or both?

You know I suppose the best test would be the boom straightening. Big piston of top of the arm from one extreme to the other. I think this will be a guide to at least see if mine is different than "standard".

Yes, I agree about the arm jerks being dangerous if something or someone is too close. I was told long ago by a pro is that what you are trying to do to smooth things out is to always crack more than one valve at a time. Or, I suppose open one as you close another. This diminishes shock when the primary valve closes. Sometimes i can do this. Depends on how much practice I've had lately. Again, thanks to all!

 

[85Hokie]

Ok- here is what I timed, from full retraction to full extension of the dipper stick @ exactly 2600 rpms was 5.78 seconds.

From full retraction to full ext and back was approx 9.51 seconds.

 

[Nick-BX25]

Ok- here is what I timed, from full retraction to full extension of the dipper stick @ exactly 2600 rpms was 5.78 seconds.

From full retraction to full ext and back was approx 9.51 seconds.

Thanks a lot for the trouble! I'll check mine and let you know what I got.

 

[lugbolt]

speed of hydraulic equipment is proportional to flow

flow is the result of pump speed and capacity (size)

if the pump is spun slower, it don't pump as much fluid. Simple.

Kubota rates their pumps (almost all of them with one or two exceptions-mostly construction eqpt), at maximum engine speed, or very close to maximum.

Thus, as you can infer, particularly with BX's because their pumps are SO tiny, they need to run at or very near maximum engine speed to make the hydraulic functions work at their 'normal' (slow?) speed. In fact the pump on the BX is actually about the same as the pump on the RTV diesels--in other words, TINY. It is, in that sense, thought of by many as a overgrown lawn mower.

So, if you're trying to climb a hill in bunny gear (which is by the way the highest gear you have) at lower than maximum RPM, the pump flow is going to be down, the pressure is likely to be down, and it just ain't gonna do it. Either raise the RPM, or shift to tortoise gear. The slower the gear the more pulling power it will have. The faster gears lose pulling power but also lose a lot of pulling power.

 

[Nick-BX25]

Ok- here is what I timed, from full retraction to full extension of the dipper stick @ exactly 2600 rpms was 5.78 seconds.

From full retraction to full ext and back was approx 9.51 seconds.

Timed my Backhoe arm this AM. (Windy 37 degrees) I got very close to same values as you 5.5 for top piston and 9.5 to flex bucket fully. I'm going to write this down in my owners manual. Could be good info in the future. I suppose pin grease and temp, and... But just wanted a ballpark. Again, Thanks for your time on this!

 

[fried1765]

Timed my Backhoe arm this AM. (Windy 37 degrees) I got very close to same values as you 5.5 for top piston and 9.5 to flex bucket fully. I'm going to write this down in my owners manual. Could be good info in the future. I suppose pin grease and temp, and... But just wanted a ballpark. Again, Thanks for your time on this!

As discussed above,....small tractor with single tiny hydraulic pump = slow cylinder movements.
Larger Kubota tractors, built as dedicated TLBs, have 3 hydraulic pumps, specifically to avoid such issues.

 

[Nick-BX25]

speed of hydraulic equipment is proportional to flow

flow is the result of pump speed and capacity (size)

if the pump is spun slower, it don't pump as much fluid. Simple.

Kubota rates their pumps (almost all of them with one or two exceptions-mostly construction eqpt), at maximum engine speed, or very close to maximum.

Thus, as you can infer, particularly with BX's because their pumps are SO tiny, they need to run at or very near maximum engine speed to make the hydraulic functions work at their 'normal' (slow?) speed. In fact the pump on the BX is actually about the same as the pump on the RTV diesels--in other words, TINY. It is, in that sense, thought of by many as a overgrown lawn mower.

So, if you're trying to climb a hill in bunny gear (which is by the way the highest gear you have) at lower than maximum RPM, the pump flow is going to be down, the pressure is likely to be down, and it just ain't gonna do it. Either raise the RPM, or shift to tortoise gear. The slower the gear the more pulling power it will have. The faster gears lose pulling power but also lose a lot of pulling power.

Much more than an overgrown lawnmower. I've had a lot of mowers. I have about 25 acres. 1/2 hills and trees, half hills and grass. I mow with a conventional lawn tractor but the BX does things I simply could not get done without it. Cut ditches, filled ditches, moves a lot of gravel, dug out a lot of stumps. Drug 30 tires out of a new property addition that some idiot used to line a ditch, bush hogging woods with the FEL in front helps clear downed logs prior to mowing, drags cut trees clear of the stickers to allow cutting up. I like it's size to power. A larger machine with an FEL and bushhog attached is just too big for my piece of earth. I don't want my paths much wider than my pickup. Some are just two people wide. I don't mow with it as mowing is just a lot of long hot hours. A lawn tractor lasts 3-4 yrs around here. Save my BX for yard WORK. It is a good match for my needs. I'm pretty rough on it. It has held up well.

 

[lugbolt]

Much more than an overgrown lawnmower. I've had a lot of mowers. I have about 25 acres. 1/2 hills and trees, half hills and grass. I mow with a conventional lawn tractor but the BX does things I simply could not get done without it. Cut ditches, filled ditches, moves a lot of gravel, dug out a lot of stumps. Drug 30 tires out of a new property addition that some idiot used to line a ditch, bush hogging woods with the FEL in front helps clear downed logs prior to mowing, drags cut trees clear of the stickers to allow cutting up. I like it's size to power. A larger machine with an FEL and bushhog attached is just too big for my piece of earth. I don't want my paths much wider than my pickup. Some are just two people wide. I don't mow with it as mowing is just a lot of long hot hours. A lawn tractor lasts 3-4 yrs around here. Save my BX for yard WORK. It is a good match for my needs. I'm pretty rough on it. It has held up well.

lot of people get their panties in a wad when I state that, but the basic design of it is very similar to a large lawn mower. Right down to the style frame it uses. Most larger tractors don't have frames, well except the front frame that holds the front wheels and that's where the "lawn mower" deal is often talked about.

In my 30 years of dealer repair work I saw lots (but not everything). Of the many BX's I was blessed (or sometimes cursed) to work on, service, or repair, a few of them stood out-and they were the guys who used them for work that a much larger tractor should have been used. Akin to using a 10mm wrench to beat a nail into a board. There were a couple BX's that were used as bulldozers; those never lasted long, usually a couple three years and started falling apart. Surprised they lasted that long given the useage. Tough little things but they aren't bulletproof.

 

[fried1765]

lot of people get their panties in a wad when I state that, but the basic design of it is very similar to a large lawn mower. Right down to the style frame it uses. Most larger tractors don't have frames, well except the front frame that holds the front wheels and that's where the "lawn mower" deal is often talked about.

In my 30 years of dealer repair work I saw lots (but not everything). Of the many BX's I was blessed (or sometimes cursed) to work on, service, or repair, a few of them stood out-and they were the guys who used them for work that a much larger tractor should have been used. Akin to using a 10mm wrench to beat a nail into a board. There were a couple BX's that were used as bulldozers; those never lasted long, usually a couple three years and started falling apart. Surprised they lasted that long given the useage. Tough little things but they aren't bulletproof.

Tractor abuse is inexcusable!
I never abuse my L48 TLB, and it is a seriously more robust machine than a little BX.
I consider that I am very fortunate to have my exceptionally low hour L48.
Abuse of any machine is certain to cost many $$$$$$!

 

[TheOldHokie]

Much more than an overgrown lawnmower. I've had a lot of mowers. I have about 25 acres. 1/2 hills and trees, half hills and grass. I mow with a conventional lawn tractor but the BX does things I simply could not get done without it. Cut ditches, filled ditches, moves a lot of gravel, dug out a lot of stumps. Drug 30 tires out of a new property addition that some idiot used to line a ditch, bush hogging woods with the FEL in front helps clear downed logs prior to mowing, drags cut trees clear of the stickers to allow cutting up. I like it's size to power. A larger machine with an FEL and bushhog attached is just too big for my piece of earth. I don't want my paths much wider than my pickup. Some are just two people wide. I don't mow with it as mowing is just a lot of long hot hours. A lawn tractor lasts 3-4 yrs around here. Save my BX for yard WORK. It is a good match for my needs. I'm pretty rough on it. It has held up well.

I own a G2460 and a G2160 Kubota lawn tractor. They are heavy duty designs but the BX machines are considerably more robust. I generally describe them as lawn tractors on steroids.

Dan

 

[Henro]

lot of people get their panties in a wad when I state that, but the basic design of it is very similar to a large lawn mower. Right down to the style frame it uses.

Sounds like it's time for an off topic post, asking how many of us wear panties! My guess, maybe less than 10% of OTT members?

 

[85Hokie]

I own a G2460 and a G2160 Kubota lawn tractor. They are heavy duty designs but the BX machines are considerably more robust. I generally describe them as lawn tractors on steroids.

Dan

My very old neighbor across the street need a large tree that blew over removed ........... I told him I would do it for a measly C-note.............. brought out the stihl, cut the logs into 48" sections ...... went back to the shed and got the BX..........

he said - "nice toy!"

after I flipped those logs into the bucket and pushed the remaining tree over the hill.......... HE SPOKE highly of the "toy"

 

[lugbolt]

Abuse of any machine is certain to cost many $$$$$$!

...and keeps service departments in business

 

[fried1765]

...and keeps service departments in business