I use a sharpie and write the date on filters, etc. Sometimes I put the source and invoice # for a radiator or such in case of warranty.
Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
Buying a used tractor with no maintenance records
- Thread starter TomTomTom
- Start date
I do the hours on the filters as well but more importantly, I always send a sample of the drain oil to Blackstone (and transmission fluid when I change it) and let them tell me if the oil is still good or shot. So far, my TBN (Not tractor by net either) numbers indicate I can run the oil farther but I don't. Oil is cheap. In my case hydraulic oil isn't. Both my tractors take 54 quarts a change or basically 27 gallons to change both.
I think it would be fairly unusual for any used item to come with maintenance records. Buy accordingly.
shiraz627
Member
Equipment
BX23S Piranha toothbar, Underarmor, PFL1242 pallet forks, BXpanded thumb, ripper
I keep meticulous maintenance records on all my equipment because I come from an aviation mx background. But that's just me.
Do meticulous mx records mean it's a great used tractor (airplane, etc)? NO!
Some of the most prolific FICTION I've ever read was meticulously/expertly written by aircraft mechanics about their own airplanes. (It's largely true that the plumber's house has lousy plumbing, the electrician's house has lousy wiring, and the mechanic's equipment has lousy or deferred maintenance. Those people are not intimidated by lousy mx and often defer repairs because they are confident they can handle any sudden failures.) The only way to determine the reality of records of a tractor (other, etc) is to perform a good inspection before you buy.
Here's what I recommend for a tractor:
1-ASK if the hour-meter is correct. Get things in writing via advertisement, email, etc. Certain items should agree with low time: Soft, flexible hoses and rubber items, bright paint (if stored under cover ..you DID ask, right?) good tread on original tires, etc. ASK if any rotating items have been replaced and WHY. (starters, pumps, alternators might fail under warranty when new, but a starter/alternator/pump that was replaced after several years could have been from high-useage and should be commensurate with the hour meter. Example: An alternator that required new brushes recently would be abnormal for a low-time tractor.)
Conversely, just because a lot of replacements have been accomplished does not portend doom/gloom. At least proper mx has been done and you'll be acquiring repaired equipment. But ask who/what/where it was performed. Obviously repetitive repairs to the same item should raise an eyebrow.
2-ASK if the mx has been performed regularly (oil and filter, hydraulics, anti-freeze last changed, air filters cleaned/replaced.) Ask (while not in-view of the tractor) what brand oil, & filter he uses. If he doesn't know...that's suspicious. (If it's Kubota filters that's great. If NAPA Gold that's good. If Fram or SuperTech; he's shopping price, not quality...but if he doesn't know what he buys... well, you get it.
Notice if the filter has date/time written on it. Get BENEATH the NON-running tractor and look at the hydraulic filters. Damaged? (rough useage) Rusty? (old/rough-use?) Hyd fluid clear? Diesel engine oil gets dirty quick but it should be changed each 100 hrs, so ask when he last did it and compare that to the appearance of the filter and the hr meter. ASK what type grease he uses and how often? Look for signs of that. (Grease types should not be mixed so you need to know what type to continue and if the seller pays attention to mx he should know what products he uses. Fresh grease at fittings? ...or pressure-washed away? (Bad.) Rusty pins on the loader. (Very Bad.)
3-Bring your tools to the inspection. Volt/Ohm meter, compression-testor, tire gauge, mirror, flashlight, paper towels, etc.
4-Tell the seller DO NOT START the tractor for 24 hrs before your arrival. FEEL the exhaust, oil temp on the dipstick and sump-belly to confirm when you arrive. They should be COLD.
5-Have the SELLER start the tractor and notice how he does it. (Use of glow plugs on a normal temp day ? indicates a difficult-starting tractor. High time equipment might indicate worn engine.) Short blast of dark smoke is OK but NO blue or white smoke allowed. (After the tractor is well-warmed up, accelerate the engine to max governed speed. Acceleration should be smooth and without faltering. After a short run at governed speed, rapidly pull the throttle to idle.... and as SOON as it reaches idle... hard-accelerate it back up toward governed speed. Blue smoke indicates worn engine rings. When engine is hot low oil pressure at idle is indication of worn main bearings.
6-LISTEN to the engine, and the transmission under load. USE ALL GEARS, PTO, Front End Loader, etc. If 4WD, engage that and take the tractor around a circle in a tight turn. The front wheels should argue a little with the rear in a tight turn but that is a strong test of the system. A weak system will whine, knock, grind, or disengage.
7-RUN the engine for at least 20-30 mins to see if it runs well after warmup and the temp gauges work!
8-While it warms up, turn on ALL the lights to see if they work and while doing so, use your VOLT meter at the battery terminals to determine output voltage of the alternator. (Should be 13 Volts Minimum, 13.7 is better) LOOK at that battery and any other WIRING you can access for evidence of MOUSE CHEWING or shoddy repairs to wiring (cheap splices, taped wiring, improper modifications.) Mouse damage is not uncommon, even in good storage conditions if the equipment has low-useage history, but repairs should be good crimped butt-splices or soldered/heat-shrinked repairs, not twisted/taped or open. Notice if the plastic conduit has been chewed anywhere and look beneath the conduit for damage.
9-After warmup, pull the glow plugs and do a compression test. Research the particular engine model beforehand to determine the normal compression levels.
10-After shut-down LEAVE ALL THE LIGHTS ON for 10 minutes, then turn them off and take a volt reading at the battery terminals. 12 volts minimum or it's a worn battery. Look at the battery mfr's date (if it's still legible) ASK the seller when the battery was last purchased.
11-BRING CASH if possible if you intend to "haggle" because CASH haggles BEST. (I don't like to haggle and ask the seller before arriving if his price is negotiable and also be certain you inform him you expect to compression-test the engine. Unless it's a low-time engine I would not buy a tractor without a compression test.)
12-ASK if he's the original owner, where he bought it and from whom. Call that dealer....Kubota dealers have access to original sales-records. Not the original owner? WHO did he buy it from and where? Call that person. ASK BOTH as to WHY they sold/are-selling it. Be certain to have in-hand the serial number of the tractor, engine, and any attachments as the Kubota Dlr with need that info. If you have access to law enforcement you might check any suspicious sellers info, but that's beyond the norm in most cases.
Put these in proper order rather than how I listed them and take a friend along with you who knows about tractors but do not let him challenge or irritate the seller. Just listen to his advice on the side.
Good luck.
Do meticulous mx records mean it's a great used tractor (airplane, etc)? NO!
Some of the most prolific FICTION I've ever read was meticulously/expertly written by aircraft mechanics about their own airplanes. (It's largely true that the plumber's house has lousy plumbing, the electrician's house has lousy wiring, and the mechanic's equipment has lousy or deferred maintenance. Those people are not intimidated by lousy mx and often defer repairs because they are confident they can handle any sudden failures.) The only way to determine the reality of records of a tractor (other, etc) is to perform a good inspection before you buy.
Here's what I recommend for a tractor:
1-ASK if the hour-meter is correct. Get things in writing via advertisement, email, etc. Certain items should agree with low time: Soft, flexible hoses and rubber items, bright paint (if stored under cover ..you DID ask, right?) good tread on original tires, etc. ASK if any rotating items have been replaced and WHY. (starters, pumps, alternators might fail under warranty when new, but a starter/alternator/pump that was replaced after several years could have been from high-useage and should be commensurate with the hour meter. Example: An alternator that required new brushes recently would be abnormal for a low-time tractor.)
Conversely, just because a lot of replacements have been accomplished does not portend doom/gloom. At least proper mx has been done and you'll be acquiring repaired equipment. But ask who/what/where it was performed. Obviously repetitive repairs to the same item should raise an eyebrow.
2-ASK if the mx has been performed regularly (oil and filter, hydraulics, anti-freeze last changed, air filters cleaned/replaced.) Ask (while not in-view of the tractor) what brand oil, & filter he uses. If he doesn't know...that's suspicious. (If it's Kubota filters that's great. If NAPA Gold that's good. If Fram or SuperTech; he's shopping price, not quality...but if he doesn't know what he buys... well, you get it.
Notice if the filter has date/time written on it. Get BENEATH the NON-running tractor and look at the hydraulic filters. Damaged? (rough useage) Rusty? (old/rough-use?) Hyd fluid clear? Diesel engine oil gets dirty quick but it should be changed each 100 hrs, so ask when he last did it and compare that to the appearance of the filter and the hr meter. ASK what type grease he uses and how often? Look for signs of that. (Grease types should not be mixed so you need to know what type to continue and if the seller pays attention to mx he should know what products he uses. Fresh grease at fittings? ...or pressure-washed away? (Bad.) Rusty pins on the loader. (Very Bad.)
3-Bring your tools to the inspection. Volt/Ohm meter, compression-testor, tire gauge, mirror, flashlight, paper towels, etc.
4-Tell the seller DO NOT START the tractor for 24 hrs before your arrival. FEEL the exhaust, oil temp on the dipstick and sump-belly to confirm when you arrive. They should be COLD.
5-Have the SELLER start the tractor and notice how he does it. (Use of glow plugs on a normal temp day ? indicates a difficult-starting tractor. High time equipment might indicate worn engine.) Short blast of dark smoke is OK but NO blue or white smoke allowed. (After the tractor is well-warmed up, accelerate the engine to max governed speed. Acceleration should be smooth and without faltering. After a short run at governed speed, rapidly pull the throttle to idle.... and as SOON as it reaches idle... hard-accelerate it back up toward governed speed. Blue smoke indicates worn engine rings. When engine is hot low oil pressure at idle is indication of worn main bearings.
6-LISTEN to the engine, and the transmission under load. USE ALL GEARS, PTO, Front End Loader, etc. If 4WD, engage that and take the tractor around a circle in a tight turn. The front wheels should argue a little with the rear in a tight turn but that is a strong test of the system. A weak system will whine, knock, grind, or disengage.
7-RUN the engine for at least 20-30 mins to see if it runs well after warmup and the temp gauges work!
8-While it warms up, turn on ALL the lights to see if they work and while doing so, use your VOLT meter at the battery terminals to determine output voltage of the alternator. (Should be 13 Volts Minimum, 13.7 is better) LOOK at that battery and any other WIRING you can access for evidence of MOUSE CHEWING or shoddy repairs to wiring (cheap splices, taped wiring, improper modifications.) Mouse damage is not uncommon, even in good storage conditions if the equipment has low-useage history, but repairs should be good crimped butt-splices or soldered/heat-shrinked repairs, not twisted/taped or open. Notice if the plastic conduit has been chewed anywhere and look beneath the conduit for damage.
9-After warmup, pull the glow plugs and do a compression test. Research the particular engine model beforehand to determine the normal compression levels.
10-After shut-down LEAVE ALL THE LIGHTS ON for 10 minutes, then turn them off and take a volt reading at the battery terminals. 12 volts minimum or it's a worn battery. Look at the battery mfr's date (if it's still legible) ASK the seller when the battery was last purchased.
11-BRING CASH if possible if you intend to "haggle" because CASH haggles BEST. (I don't like to haggle and ask the seller before arriving if his price is negotiable and also be certain you inform him you expect to compression-test the engine. Unless it's a low-time engine I would not buy a tractor without a compression test.)
12-ASK if he's the original owner, where he bought it and from whom. Call that dealer....Kubota dealers have access to original sales-records. Not the original owner? WHO did he buy it from and where? Call that person. ASK BOTH as to WHY they sold/are-selling it. Be certain to have in-hand the serial number of the tractor, engine, and any attachments as the Kubota Dlr with need that info. If you have access to law enforcement you might check any suspicious sellers info, but that's beyond the norm in most cases.
Put these in proper order rather than how I listed them and take a friend along with you who knows about tractors but do not let him challenge or irritate the seller. Just listen to his advice on the side.
Good luck.
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