Buying a tractor with bad blowby

[brian.miley]

Im going to look at an early 90s L Series which the seller says has blowby and thinks it needs a ring job. Apparently it is bad enough that it doesn't like to start with just the starter motor so they drag it with a truck and bump start it to get going. He said it runs fine but smokes a bit. I realize that this could require a an overhaul or with some luck could be a relatively simple repair. Supposedly everything else works well it includes a front end loader.

I could get the tractor for about half of what a "good" one goes for. Im a mechanical engineer and pretty good with a wrench, so a bit of repair doesn't scare me, but im not sure how involved a complete overhaul on these motors is or if its even worthwhile. So I'm looking to get some feedback/ opinions from those of you who know a bit more about these machines.

Is it worth buying assuming it will need an overhaul, or is the effort and cost prohibitive?

Is there anything I should be looking at to help get an idea of what is causing the blowby?

If its been operated like this for a while could there be any other damage caused?

Thanks in advance.

 

[fried1765]

Im going to look at an early 90s L Series which the seller says has blowby and thinks it needs a ring job. Apparently it is bad enough that it doesn't like to start with just the starter motor so they drag it with a truck and bump start it to get going. He said it runs fine but smokes a bit. I realize that this could require a an overhaul or with some luck could be a relatively simple repair. Supposedly everything else works well it includes a front end loader.

I could get the tractor for about half of what a "good" one goes for. Im a mechanical engineer and pretty good with a wrench, so a bit of repair doesn't scare me, but im not sure how involved a complete overhaul on these motors is or if its even worthwhile. So I'm looking to get some feedback/ opinions from those of you who know a bit more about these machines.

Is it worth buying assuming it will need an overhaul, or is the effort and cost prohibitive?

Is there anything I should be looking at to help get an idea of what is causing the blowby?

If its been operated like this for a while could there be any other damage caused?

Thanks in advance.

Compared to a "good one", I would budget at least $5K for repairs.
Then it becomes,....is it really worth it, ......and your time?
You did not mention hours!
This is a 30 year old machine, that likely needs other things also.

 

[skeets]

MHO, unless you want to do a restro to it I would pass. Tractor is 30 years old maybe older, parts might be kinda iffy, maybe a clutch and presure plate and you know stuff,,, for a hobby ok other wise not so much

 

[85Hokie]

Hours on the machine?

I agree with the rest - hell, if you have to tow it to start, what good is it really?

That machine needs to be about 1/5 of the "good cost" to be considered.

GO ahead - tell us what "they" want for this machine. What "L" is it btw?

 

[brian.miley]

Compared to a "good one", I would budget at least $5K for repairs.
Then it becomes,....is it really worth it, ......and your time?
You did not mention hours!

Is your 5k estimate for having someone do the repairs or a DIY overhaul?

It's got about 1900 hours

Yeah I'm really on the fence, it's an opportunity to get a more capable tractor than my modest budget allows, but also don't want to get into a gigantic money pit project.

 

[85Hokie]

That 5k would be a qualified mechanic doing it.

IF you bought and wanted to try to free the rings, you COULD take the glows plugs out and place a good amount of Marvel mystery oil in it and let it sit for a while....... then do it again after a couple of days. Then fire it up after a week of sitting - after all that smoke clears it may help - then again it may not. IF it does help in the least bit - change your oil soon

 

[kubotafreak]

Putting oil in the cylinders is a good way to crack ring lands. Which this engine probably suffers from anyway. My guess is they used starting fluid to the point they have to drag start the engine. Only worth it if you know what your doing... Use oem parts is my only advice.

 

[fried1765]

Is your 5k estimate for having someone do the repairs or a DIY overhaul?

It's got about 1900 hours

Yeah I'm really on the fence, it's an opportunity to get a more capable tractor than my modest budget allows, but also don't want to get into a gigantic money pit project.

I'm thinking that you could spend $5K, even doing all the necessary fixing yourself.
Total tear down, boil block, crank reground, valves, head resurfaced, new pistons, rings, main bearings, rod bearings, injectors rebuild, etc. etc.
Do you even know if all engine parts can be readily sourced for that 30 year old engine?
From the outside, looking in, it is really a total crap shoot.
Also,...... could be only a thousand or two?

I am an old guy, so such a project would have no appeal to me at this stage in life.
Thus, .....you probably should consider my bias factor on this subject.

 

[PaulL]

How many hours of extra shifts would you need to pick up at work to earn enough to increase your budget to a "good one". More or fewer hours than you'd spend fixing that tractor?

 

[GreensvilleJay]

My old forklift had excessive blowby, piped the oil filler into the air intake( no more ugly black pools on the driveway...) . DZLmech said 5K to rebuild AFTER I delivered the engine. Ether was cheaper(NOT Kubota engine.) Also I had NO way to KNOW whether 3 ring or 4 rings inside......

1st, I'd check for a 'rebuild kit' of sleeves/rings/pistons, gaskets. see the $$$ there
2nd, test drive does it actually run fine,brakes, hydraulics, etc ?

3rd, do the 'math'. tractor $ + rebuild $ + $500 < another good tractor $

 

[brian.miley]

Thanks for all the feedback/ advice.

There's a number of relatively simple/ cheap repairs that *could* fix the problem, but worst case its a complete overhaul, so its really a bit of a gamble.

I guess what it really comes down to is if these tractors were designed/ built to be overhauled or if they are like most newer products and basically a throwaway.

Aftermarket overhaul kits seem to be in the $500 price range. If the motor can be overhauled in place it doesn't seem like its a terrible job, if the tractor needs to be split obviously that adds a bit more work.

I was planning to take a look at it, if everything else looks/ works well then the plan would be to mess around with the motor over the winter. First figure out if its the top or bottom end that's the problem and then try some of the "simple" fixes to see if I can get it running well enough. If not start really tearing into it.

From what everyone is saying the price would have to be really low for this to be worthwhile. BTW, for those asking its a L2650 with FEL, the seller said they would take 3800, I think there's still some room. Similar tractors in good running condition seem to be in the 6-8k range depending on hours.

 

[fried1765]

Thanks for all the feedback/ advice.

There's a number of relatively simple/ cheap repairs that *could* fix the problem, but worst case its a complete overhaul, so its really a bit of a gamble.

I guess what it really comes down to is if these tractors were designed/ built to be overhauled or if they are like most newer products and basically a throwaway.

Aftermarket overhaul kits seem to be in the $500 price range. If the motor can be overhauled in place it doesn't seem like its a terrible job, if the tractor needs to be split obviously that adds a bit more work.

I was planning to take a look at it, if everything else looks/ works well then the plan would be to mess around with the motor over the winter. First figure out if its the top or bottom end that's the problem and then try some of the "simple" fixes to see if I can get it running well enough. If not start really tearing into it.

From what everyone is saying the price would have to be really low for this to be worthwhile. BTW, for those asking its a L2650 with FEL, the seller said they would take 3800, I think there's still some room. Similar tractors in good running condition seem to be in the 6-8k range depending on hours.

Please keep us up to date, on your decisions/progress.

 

[PoTreeBoy]

Thanks for all the feedback/ advice.

There's a number of relatively simple/ cheap repairs that *could* fix the problem, but worst case its a complete overhaul, so its really a bit of a gamble.

I guess what it really comes down to is if these tractors were designed/ built to be overhauled or if they are like most newer products and basically a throwaway.

Aftermarket overhaul kits seem to be in the $500 price range. If the motor can be overhauled in place it doesn't seem like its a terrible job, if the tractor needs to be split obviously that adds a bit more work.

I was planning to take a look at it, if everything else looks/ works well then the plan would be to mess around with the motor over the winter. First figure out if its the top or bottom end that's the problem and then try some of the "simple" fixes to see if I can get it running well enough. If not start really tearing into it.

From what everyone is saying the price would have to be really low for this to be worthwhile. BTW, for those asking its a L2650 with FEL, the seller said they would take 3800, I think there's still some room. Similar tractors in good running condition seem to be in the 6-8k range depending on hours.

They're generally rebuildable. Most have dry cylinder liners that have to be honed after installation, so a complete in-frame isn't very practical. I think the crank has to come out the front or back, too.

If you decide to use after-market parts, get advice from the knowledgeable folks on here. There are good and bad.

Personally, I'd stop at $2 grand.

 

[D2Cat]

Every geographical area is different when it comes to prices on used equipment. I'd offer just a bit over scrap price, because you may take it apart and discover you're in that ballpark. Sell it and start over. You may make a few hundred dollars and you can repeat the process until you have the tractor you want/need at a price that is in your budget.

If you're going through the engine don't be disliking the idea of splitting the tractor. You just as well go through the clutch if you're going to keep it.

Bottom line is, the loader and mounting hardware is good no matter what condition the engine is in. you just have to find the right person and remove parts.

I've done what you're thinking about a few times. Sometimes you get the bear and sometimes the bear gets you!

 

[Soopitup]

Double (or triple) the money you think you'll spend on it in total.
Triple the time you think it will take to fix it.

Do you have both?
If not, walk away.

If you have the time, and the ability, it can be worth it, even if it's more expensive than it should be for the condition that it's in.
Time is valuable, but working on something can also be fun/therapeutic (HA!) and if you have little to no money and lots of time, that's money you're not paying someone else.

You have to assume the worst though. It's rare to find something that's "cheap" and broken and is a simple fix. Usually it's cheap (but still overpriced) for a reason.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

maybe look around for another ,same engine, 'parts' tractor that has a good engine ? Put good engine into 1st tractor. BTDT...get a lot of spare parts too ! Take 1st engine on as a 'winter project'......
As others have said PARTS, economical parts, may dictate IF it's worth ($$) rebuilding.
Don't know if it's possible to just replace sleeve/ring/piston. 1900 hrs doesn't seem like a lot to me. Have 1100+ on my 5 year old BX23S.

 

[Runs With Scissors]

The after reading the 2 phrases "modest budget" and "30 year old tractor that might need a rebuild"

The immediate response in my head was to yell..... " take a HARD PASS, my friend!!!!!!!"

That sounds like a recipe for disaster.

 

[steveh]

$5 K sounds, in reality, too low as you won't really know what all is "wrong" with this thing. Could be $500 but.... And I am not clear on why the machine has to be dragged to start the engine... If it's the starter, price out the replacement starter and add that to overhaul cost and figure it isn't the only part or piece that is iffy. These things add up in $$$ very rapidly. Now, if you can grab the tractor for some really, really low price, then it becomes a project you can rebuild as you have time and extra cash for it.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

Maybe the owner won't replace the weak battery and rebuild the weak starter so drag and drop clutch is his 'economical' solution ?
I'd price out those and sleeve/piston,ring/gaskts kits THEN decide if the tractor is worth it ?
You didn't say exactly which tractor,it might be worth a lot more than you think.

 

[Jakelly]

This seems like a suckers bet. The math only comes close to working out for you if this is the only issue and this fix completes the repair. Even then, I think you are undervaluing your time, focus, resources, and stress. This tractor doesn’t seem well maintained and that makes it hard to believe the problems are going to stop there.

+1 to the scrap price comment. If that were my tractor, I would know it is a total loss as it sits. Either put the time and money in to fix it (hoping it stops there and knowing it still won’t be Gucci when I’m done), part it out, or sell it really cheap. This guy is opting for option 4 fish for a sucker.