So as I referred to in a previous reply I was not there when the pump guy hooked this up and im getting the bolt information from the tractor owner. But I do know the distance from the tractor to the pump was approximately 20 feet. There was some sort of adapter shaft from the tractor to the long section of the shaft going to the pump. The adapter shaft was roughly 2ft long. The shaft came apart where the 2ft met the longer section. Thats all I know. The post is more about the cause of the fire versus the how exactly the shaft failed.
Burnt 2018 L4701
- Thread starter lottabusch
- Start date
North Idaho Wolfman
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L3450DT-GST, Woods FEL, B7100 HSD, FEL, 60" SB, 743 Bobcat with V2203, and more
Swapping or using thee ECU in another tractor is a fool's errand.
Yes it could damage all sorts of devices and systems on the other tractor.
Fix all the wiring then if there is still an ECU issue then have the ECU tested.
Now as far as other damage, I would worry about the PTO drive and clutch, it had to take a huge hit.
Engine is easy to tell,
Did it boil coolant out of it?
Is there metal in the oil?
Does the engine turn manually?
Yes it could damage all sorts of devices and systems on the other tractor.
Fix all the wiring then if there is still an ECU issue then have the ECU tested.
Now as far as other damage, I would worry about the PTO drive and clutch, it had to take a huge hit.
Engine is easy to tell,
Did it boil coolant out of it?
Is there metal in the oil?
Does the engine turn manually?
All very good questions and I will know much more when I get my hands on it next week. I really appreciate the responses from the forum.
I'm with Hugo. The wiring part is easy. Cut and splice as needed. Please, ONE wire at a time! If you cut and splice ONE wire at a time you won't get anything crossed up. Connectors can be purchased as needed.
The alternator is easy enough to rebuild or replace.
That leaves three questions:
If you can get a good answer on the first two, you'll know which direction to go.
That third question, though... that's a tough one.
The alternator is easy enough to rebuild or replace.
That leaves three questions:
- Is the ECU toasted?
- Is the engine seized?
- Do dill pickles have any place in a civilized society?
If you can get a good answer on the first two, you'll know which direction to go.
That third question, though... that's a tough one.
curious, I looked up l4701HST( I assumed HST...) 2 wiring harnesses each about $2500. so $5k for both.
The problem with 'fixing' the existing cable is time and materials. You can easily spend a week(50-60) hours TRYING to repair the cables as EACH wire has to be 100% inspected from 'a' to 'b', one at time.Say there's 100 wires, 1/2 hr per inspection...that's 50 HOURS of your life,gone. At $100/hr shop time....gee that's $5,000 and NO guarantee you didn't miss one or two bad spots ! Can it be repaired, sure but honestly you're further ahead installing KNOWN, GOOD harnesses. This hasn't even addressed the fuse boxes, relays, connectors, etc. Each can take hours to properly assess and repair so please don't go into this thinking well there's 4-7 bad spots, should be OK. it's the one you didn't see that 'll back feed and destroy the new $$$$$$$$$ ECU and alternator !
The problem with 'fixing' the existing cable is time and materials. You can easily spend a week(50-60) hours TRYING to repair the cables as EACH wire has to be 100% inspected from 'a' to 'b', one at time.Say there's 100 wires, 1/2 hr per inspection...that's 50 HOURS of your life,gone. At $100/hr shop time....gee that's $5,000 and NO guarantee you didn't miss one or two bad spots ! Can it be repaired, sure but honestly you're further ahead installing KNOWN, GOOD harnesses. This hasn't even addressed the fuse boxes, relays, connectors, etc. Each can take hours to properly assess and repair so please don't go into this thinking well there's 4-7 bad spots, should be OK. it's the one you didn't see that 'll back feed and destroy the new $$$$$$$$$ ECU and alternator !
Thanks and I completely agree with you. We are just in the assessment phase right now so until we peel back the onion and take a bunch of pics we won't be doing anything. The dealer says without the damage it's worth $10k to $12k. They are quoting $12k min for repairs and that's with one harness.
I want to get a shop manual so I can get a better understanding of the system. Any suggestions on which manual is best?
you can try www.kubotabooks.com to see if WSM is there. Some dealers will copy for free onto your flashdrive. Hmm, only ONE harness ? That cuts cost down in 1/2 ( $2500 CDN) ! You can probably guesstimate another $1000 for alternator and other KNOWN melted/damaged parts ? Didn't lookup the ECU though !! This will be a very tough call, best get prices for the ECU and ALT + anything you can see in pictures that's 'suspect'.If you get to $5K, it'll be a really, really tough call. Make a list ON PAPER, parts and cost ! Too easy to forget something ( say the $****** fuse box ) !
NCL4701
Well-known member
Equipment
L4701, T2290, WC68, grapple, BB1572, Farmi W50R, Howes 500, 16kW IMD gen, WG24
How many hours did it have on it?
May seem irrelevant, but I’ve seen quite a few tractors on the NC coast that look like garage queens but they’ve been primarily used to run pumps for waterfowl impoundments / corn fields so they have many thousands of hours on them, nearly all running WOT. Obviously you have some more research to do when you get your hands on it, but I wouldn’t put anything close to the value of the tractor into repair on damage like this that could turn into a money pit. A 7500hr L4701 isn’t going to be worth near what a 750hr is, even if the high hour machine looks pristine. If it has been a portable impoundment pump engine, 1000hr/yr wouldn’t be unusual.
Edit: I’d also check with ag salvage places such as Worthington Ag, All State, Baker’s, etc. to see what kind of salvage bids you can get for it as is. If it’s been a pump motor, the parts that don’t get used much will often cause it to have good value for parts even with the high hours, so tell them what it was used for. They’ll want plenty of pics if you want bids.
Good chance if you add repair cost to salvage value it will exceed value of the tractor.
May seem irrelevant, but I’ve seen quite a few tractors on the NC coast that look like garage queens but they’ve been primarily used to run pumps for waterfowl impoundments / corn fields so they have many thousands of hours on them, nearly all running WOT. Obviously you have some more research to do when you get your hands on it, but I wouldn’t put anything close to the value of the tractor into repair on damage like this that could turn into a money pit. A 7500hr L4701 isn’t going to be worth near what a 750hr is, even if the high hour machine looks pristine. If it has been a portable impoundment pump engine, 1000hr/yr wouldn’t be unusual.
Edit: I’d also check with ag salvage places such as Worthington Ag, All State, Baker’s, etc. to see what kind of salvage bids you can get for it as is. If it’s been a pump motor, the parts that don’t get used much will often cause it to have good value for parts even with the high hours, so tell them what it was used for. They’ll want plenty of pics if you want bids.
Good chance if you add repair cost to salvage value it will exceed value of the tractor.
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NCL4701
Well-known member
Equipment
L4701, T2290, WC68, grapple, BB1572, Farmi W50R, Howes 500, 16kW IMD gen, WG24
There’s a WSM at the link in @GreensvilleJay’s post #28. If you have difficulty getting it, let me know and I’ll figure out a way to get you an electronic copy. It’s 21.9 MB and this site doesn’t seem to like stuff that big, even in a private message.
Edit: Apologies for all the posts and edits. Probably obvious but if owner has any insurance, homeowner, farm, business, etc. check with the agent on coverages. Just because you think it’s covered doesn’t mean it is, but just because you think it isn’t doesn’t mean it isn’t.
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Butch
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Kubota 2410, RC60-24B, FL1000- kubota hydrolic front snow blade- plug aerator
Help me out here guys on the sequence of events that led up to the fried wires up front. first life was good.... all was working until the PTO shaft severed and began flopping around.... the sparks it generated spinning at 540 RPM could certainly ignite the bone dry sawgrass in that immediate area of the tractor..... i.e. the rear of the tractor.
How did the fire spread to the front of the tractor.... i.e. the engine compartment? I am going to throw this out for consideration. If the picture of the radiator is any indication of how and where this tractor was operated.... could there be or had been a build-up of dried grasses and loose grass dust built up along the inside frame from the front to the rear. you can't see it unless you get under it while on stands.
On mine, I can blow the tractor off from stem to stern and wash it and it looks clean as a whistle. However, when I get under it at the middle and end of mowing season I find and blow out a butt load of dried grasses and grass dust.
Could this have been a contributing factor in this case?
i get under it at mid
How did the fire spread to the front of the tractor.... i.e. the engine compartment? I am going to throw this out for consideration. If the picture of the radiator is any indication of how and where this tractor was operated.... could there be or had been a build-up of dried grasses and loose grass dust built up along the inside frame from the front to the rear. you can't see it unless you get under it while on stands.
On mine, I can blow the tractor off from stem to stern and wash it and it looks clean as a whistle. However, when I get under it at the middle and end of mowing season I find and blow out a butt load of dried grasses and grass dust.
Could this have been a contributing factor in this case?
i get under it at mid
So I finally had the opportunity to see the damage for myself. Spoke with the tech who had been working on it. He has been doing this for decades. What I saw was the side panel near the alternator was melted in the same location as the alternator. The radiator was pretty clogged up and the primary air filter was pretty dirty.
The wiring harness clearly showed signs of overheating and some melting at the connectors.
He explained to me it ran so hot for so long it began eating the wiring. The melting was located in random places throughout the harness.
He said he can't test both ecus until the wiring harness was replaced.
I told my buddy that I strongly believe the fire itself was not the cause of the meltdown.
So the pto shaft breaks, the motor is running very hot with restricted airflow through the filter, likely did a regen from excess soot from rich burning fuel which added more heat near the alternator. Add a fire underneath the tractor to boot. Triple threat put it down.
Dealer got a wholesaler to cough up $6500 for the burnt unit with less than 1500 hours.
They are going to take the money and get a new tractor.
I really appreciate all of the responses on this issue. Since I will likely be doing the maintenance on the new unit you may hear from me again.