BT600 Boom leak

[Tractor Gal]

I'm in the process of determining the location of hydraulic oil leak in a BT600 backhoe. It may be a hose but the leak is somewhere inside the boom. I have to remove the boom cylinder to get a closer look. That process, for me, is a bit of a job.

BUT, here's the question. How do you find a shop that will rebuild a boom cylinder if that is where the leak is? I called one not too far away and I like the process they offered. It's $150 to tear it down and then the cost of parts. I have no idea if that is a good price or not, so I thought I'd inquire here to learn more about how to go about this. I'm still hoping it's just a hose!

Thanks to anyone who is willing to help.

 

[Bmyers]

For us, we talked to my brother-in-laws brother who rebuilds cylinders for the company he works for. We asked him in our area who would he recommend. He gave us three places, which one of them we had used before for other items and had good service from them. We talked to them, they gave us what we felt was a good price and we went with them.

I would say if you have neighbors/friends that have tractors/equipment, talk to them and see where they have used and what type of service they got. Word of mouth is some of the best advertising a repair shop can get.

PS-I think the actual parts to rebuild our cylinders was less than $20 a cylinder.

 

[Tractor Gal]

For us, we talked to my brother-in-laws brother who rebuilds cylinders for the company he works for. We asked him in our area who would he recommend. He gave us three places, which one of them we had used before for other items and had good service from them. We talked to them, they gave us what we felt was a good price and we went with them.

I would say if you have neighbors/friends that have tractors/equipment, talk to them and see where they have used and what type of service they got. Word of mouth is some of the best advertising a repair shop can get.

PS-I think the actual parts to rebuild our cylinders was less than $20 a cylinder.

Yes, Bmyers, I'm right in there with you. When my neighbor gets home from work today, I'm going to see what he has to say. I haven't looked yet at youtube for videos about the re-build process but I already know that I am lacking in two areas: tools and know how! Sometimes, I think it is worth the money to pay someone who knows what they are doing. I love the DIY concept but find, generally, it takes me far longer to do something as opposed to paying someone. The old saying that "time is money" applies, except I have the time! Wish I knew how to apply the DIY. Thanks for your input.

 

[Tractor Gal]

Mostly good news about BT600 fluid leak. It IS a hose...this is wonderful. It is the one of the hoses that goes to the boom cylinder.

However, there is another issue. In order to get to the boom cylinder hoses, I will have to remove the boom cylinder. Both the dipperstick and the backhoe bucket are not operating as they should. In order to get that boom cylinder out, I need to extend both the boom and dipperstick to allow room to extract the cylinder. With the weight of these parts, I wouldn't be able to remove the boom to get it out that way. So, if I can't extend the dipperstick, I won't be able to replace that leaky hose.

Everything was working satisfactorily, except for the slow leak. It must be quite a small pin hole as it took me quite a while to find it. Anyway, when I use the controls to extend the dipperstick, it has the sound of being at the maximum. I don't know how else to explain. When using the FEL, mower or backhoe, once the implement gets to the "top" spot, it has a different sound. That's what is happening now even before it gets to the top spot. The rod on the dipperstick cylinder is about 4" or so extended...showing the bright steel rod. It will return all the way to close but it still has that funny sound.

Anyone have an ear to know what may be going on? I'd appreciate any help.

I have checked the fluid level and it is OK.

TG

 

[Henro]

Mostly good news about BT600 fluid leak. It IS a hose...this is wonderful. It is the one of the hoses that goes to the boom cylinder.

However, there is another issue. In order to get to the boom cylinder hoses, I will have to remove the boom cylinder. Both the dipperstick and the backhoe bucket are not operating as they should. In order to get that boom cylinder out, I need to extend both the boom and dipperstick to allow room to extract the cylinder. With the weight of these parts, I wouldn't be able to remove the boom to get it out that way. So, if I can't extend the dipperstick, I won't be able to replace that leaky hose.

Everything was working satisfactorily, except for the slow leak. It must be quite a small pin hole as it took me quite a while to find it. Anyway, when I use the controls to extend the dipperstick, it has the sound of being at the maximum. I don't know how else to explain. When using the FEL, mower or backhoe, once the implement gets to the "top" spot, it has a different sound. That's what is happening now even before it gets to the top spot. The rod on the dipperstick cylinder is about 4" or so extended...showing the bright steel rod. It will return all the way to close but it still has that funny sound.

Anyone have an ear to know what may be going on? I'd appreciate any help.

I have checked the fluid level and it is OK.

TG

I can not help probably, but can suggest that when you get to the point of trying to get the boom cylinder out, you might want to rotate the boom 90 degrees to the side. I needed to do this with mine to get the cylinder out, so I could replace a hose. ALSO pay attention to the orientation of the cylinder with respect to the hoses. OR you will be doing it twice. YES, that is that reason I know this.

But something does not smell right. A leaky hose should not affect other functions, or even the function the leaky hose is activating.

 

[Tractor Gal]

I can not help probably, but can suggest that when you get to the point of trying to get the boom cylinder out, you might want to rotate the boom 90 degrees to the side. I needed to do this with mine to get the cylinder out, so I could replace a hose. ALSO pay attention to the orientation of the cylinder with respect to the hoses. OR you will be doing it twice. YES, that is that reason I know this.

But something does not smell right. A leaky hose should not affect other functions, or even the function the leaky hose is activating.

Thanks, Henro, for your tips. I'm with you on "something doesn't smell right." I had a leaky hose earlier but it didn't affect anything else.

I have no idea how to rotate the boom 90 degrees...oh, I think I just got it...swing it to the side 90 degrees! Brilliant, Henro. I get it. And, I never thought of that. If I can ever get that far, I will pay attention to the orientation of the cylinder. I've done enough things twice to always appreciate when someone gives me warning. I wonder if I could swing that boom around enough without having the dipperstick extended all the way? I'll have to give it a try...may not get to it today since it's getting a little late, but soon. I can fix the hose leak and then address the other issue.

Thanks again. You're brilliant, Henro...just brilliant.

TG

 

[Henro]

Thanks, Henro, for your tips. I'm with you on "something doesn't smell right." I had a leaky hose earlier but it didn't affect anything else.

I have no idea how to rotate the boom 90 degrees...oh, I think I just got it...swing it to the side 90 degrees! Brilliant, Henro. I get it. And, I never thought of that. If I can ever get that far, I will pay attention to the orientation of the cylinder. I've done enough things twice to always appreciate when someone gives me warning. I wonder if I could swing that boom around enough without having the dipperstick extended all the way? I'll have to give it a try...may not get to it today since it's getting a little late, but soon. I can fix the hose leak and then address the other issue.

Thanks again. You're brilliant, Henro...just brilliant.

TG

In my case the stick had to be fully extended, so the boom would lower enough to allow the boom cylinder to be pulled out without hitting anything.

I only know about paying attention to the boom cylinder orientation after having to remove mine to rotate it after putting it back in wrong.

The only thing I have ever done that was brilliant was putting Apple Air Tags on things that my wife misplaces...but I appreciate the comment...however undeserved...Actually not sure that was very brilliant either. But love getting rare compliments!

 

[PoTreeBoy]

Sounds like your BT600 is made like my BT900. If so, besides swinging the boom to one side (yes, the stick has to be fully extended), you may need to lift that side's rear wheel. You can use the stabilizer and then block under that tire about 6 - 8".
From looking at the 600's parts diagram, it looks like the hoses run between the swing frame and the end of the boom cylinder. On the 900, this area is very tight and it would have been easier to remove the pin and get that end of the cylinder out of the way when replacing the hose. In my case, within a year, I replaced all the hoses and repacked the boom cylinder .

 

[Tractor Gal]

I am considering replacing all these hoses, too, PoTreeBoy. No point to go to all of this effort again and maybe soon!

I'd like to take these hoses somewhere to get them made locally but, sadly, I'm afraid I will get them re-installed incorrectly! If I buy from Messick's, I can replace as I remove them, making sure they are in the right spot. I'm such a dingy. But, it's good to know that about myself instead of making a huge mistake. At any rate, it's quite a few dollars to buy all the hoses at once. My piggy bank apparently has been on a diet.

TG

 

[PoTreeBoy]

I am considering replacing all these hoses, too, PoTreeBoy. No point to go to all of this effort again and maybe soon!

I'd like to take these hoses somewhere to get them made locally but, sadly, I'm afraid I will get them re-installed incorrectly! If I buy from Messick's, I can replace as I remove them, making sure they are in the right spot. I'm such a dingy. But, it's good to know that about myself instead of making a huge mistake. At any rate, it's quite a few dollars to buy all the hoses at once. My piggy bank apparently has been on a diet.

TG

Oh yeah. Mark the hoses - you can get a cheap engraver, permanent markers aren't. Both ends, and the fitting they go on. Get one on the wrong place and you'll pull your hair out and exhaust your vocabulary figuring it out. You may want to take a few pictures before you start.
I think you'll find it necessary to take some loose from the valve to gain access to others.

 

[Tractor Gal]

Oh yeah. Mark the hoses - you can get a cheap engraver, permanent markers aren't. Both ends, and the fitting they go on. Get one on the wrong place and you'll pull your hair out and exhaust your vocabulary figuring it out. You may want to take a few pictures before you start.
I think you'll find it necessary to take some loose from the valve to gain access to others.

Truer words have not been spoken.

Yesterday, I had removed a few of those hoses from the control valve. Removal was to make it easier to get the sleeve out of the way to find the leak. I made certain that I knew where to return each hose.

I am now wondering if that removal has caused the dipperstick and bucket to not operate correctly. They work but very slow and the stick cylinder does not compress all the way. I thought this system did not need bleeding but maybe there is air in the system now? Got any thoughts? Maybe if I work it more, if there is air, it will get out when it returns to the tank?

TG

 

[PoTreeBoy]

Truer words have not been spoken.

Yesterday, I had removed a few of those hoses from the control valve. Removal was to make it easier to get the sleeve out of the way to find the leak. I made certain that I knew where to return each hose.

I am now wondering if that removal has caused the dipperstick and bucket to not operate correctly. They work but very slow and the stick cylinder does not compress all the way. I thought this system did not need bleeding but maybe there is air in the system now? Got any thoughts? Maybe if I work it more, if there is air, it will get out when it returns to the tank?

TG

Yeah, exercise it a little to bleed any air. If they still mis-behave, you probably have a couple crossed. Do you have a WSM? The two hoses on a given cylinder should connect directly over/under on the valve. Tracing the hoses through that sleeve can be tricky.

 

[Tractor Gal]

It's raining today...and maybe more in the week, haven't seen the weather report. So, I'll have to wait a bit to exercise it.

I did print out the schematic showing the hoses and where they connect. If they were crossed, I wouldn't think they would work at all. But, I'll check again, just to be sure.

Thanks for the input.

TG

 

[Tractor Gal]

Today, I went to a local hydraulic shop for a hose fabrication. They have standard 1/4" hose with 5000 psi. The outer diameter, however, is larger than the outer diameter of the original hose. Because of the limited space under the boom cyliner hook up, it would seem that these larger hoses would not work. The diagram shows 3 hoses on top of the other 3 hoses, then the sleeve and then the cylinder hook up and pin on top of all that. I want to replace all these hoses so I don't have to address this for a while. I do not find any specs on hose sizes. I also don't know if the return hoses are larger diameter. Someone has replaced hoses on this backhoe so I don't know if these are OEM size or not.

So, has anyone had success in using standard 1/4" hydraulic hose replacements or do these hoses need to be purchased from a dealer? It seems most Kubota parts are made to be available only from a dealer. Maybe not. I made a mistake another time but I don't remember when.

Confirmation would be great, if anyone knows.]

TG

 

[PoTreeBoy]

Today, I went to a local hydraulic shop for a hose fabrication. They have standard 1/4" hose with 5000 psi. The outer diameter, however, is larger than the outer diameter of the original hose. Because of the limited space under the boom cyliner hook up, it would seem that these larger hoses would not work. The diagram shows 3 hoses on top of the other 3 hoses, then the sleeve and then the cylinder hook up and pin on top of all that. I want to replace all these hoses so I don't have to address this for a while. I do not find any specs on hose sizes. I also don't know if the return hoses are larger diameter. Someone has replaced hoses on this backhoe so I don't know if these are OEM size or not.

So, has anyone had success in using standard 1/4" hydraulic hose replacements or do these hoses need to be purchased from a dealer? It seems most Kubota parts are made to be available only from a dealer. Maybe not. I made a mistake another time but I don't remember when.

Confirmation would be great, if anyone knows.]

TG

I had my first backhoe hose (L35) made at NAPA The nut was 1/16" larger than the original. No big deal, but I had to enlarge the slot where the hose exits the boom. After that, I ordered the rest from my dealer or Messick's, cheaper than my local sources YMMV.
When I was replacing the loader hoses, some of them were not available from Kubota.
I measured and ordered them from www.discounthydraulichose.com. They have pages that show you how to identify your fittings (probably JIC) and measure your hoses.
Most of my hoses were 3/8", so 1/4 on your smaller tractor is probably right. I think a lot of shops stock 5000# hose in 1/4" to economize, but it is stiffer, and thicker as you found.

 

[Tractor Gal]

I had my first backhoe hose (L35) made at NAPA The nut was 1/16" larger than the original. No big deal, but I had to enlarge the slot where the hose exits the boom. After that, I ordered the rest from my dealer or Messick's, cheaper than my local sources YMMV.
When I was replacing the loader hoses, some of them were not available from Kubota.
I measured and ordered them from www.discounthydraulichose.com. They have pages that show you how to identify your fittings (probably JIC) and measure your hoses.
Most of my hoses were 3/8", so 1/4 on your smaller tractor is probably right. I think a lot of shops stock 5000# hose in 1/4" to economize, but it is stiffer, and thicker as you found.

Thanks for the info, PoTreeBoy. I'll have a look at discounthydraulichose.com. I did order a couple of quick-connect fittings from them and they have meshed well. I think I hesitate because of my poor measuring. But, I did get a micrometer so perhaps I can do better.

I have ordered two hoses from the local Kubota dealer. They put the order with their weekly order and, therefore, I do not pay any shipping fees. Since I can do other errands near them,
it's a bit of a savings. As far as the price of the hoses, I didn't find the Kubota hoses are that much more. So, we'll see.

The hoses on the FEL would not be a problem to order online if I can get the measurement right. It's the small area under the boom rod where these 6 hoses have to fit that is the problem. If each hose is 1/8" OD larger, it's a problem.

But, again, we'll see. As time goes, I am continually learning about this tractor. It generally is a challenge the first time around with each task. Hopefully, these tasks won't have to be repeated any time soon. And, by the time I need to do them again, I won't remember the specifics! Such is life.

 

[Tractor Gal]

PoTreeBoy, I just looked briefly for costs of hoses with fittings from discounthydraulics. If I can
figure out what I need, it looks like a good way to go. The hose from the local supply was $40. The dealer price would be $47-54. The online would be about half. Thanks for the link.

TG

 

[PoTreeBoy]

Thanks for the info, PoTreeBoy. I'll have a look at discounthydraulichose.com. I did order a couple of quick-connect fittings from them and they have meshed well. I think I hesitate because of my poor measuring. But, I did get a micrometer so perhaps I can do better.

I have ordered two hoses from the local Kubota dealer. They put the order with their weekly order and, therefore, I do not pay any shipping fees. Since I can do other errands near them,
it's a bit of a savings. As far as the price of the hoses, I didn't find the Kubota hoses are that much more. So, we'll see.

The hoses on the FEL would not be a problem to order online if I can get the measurement right. It's the small area under the boom rod where these 6 hoses have to fit that is the problem. If each hose is 1/8" OD larger, it's a problem.

But, again, we'll see. As time goes, I am continually learning about this tractor. It generally is a challenge the first time around with each task. Hopefully, these tasks won't have to be repeated any time soon. And, by the time I need to do them again, I won't remember the specifics! Such is life.

Assuming yours are JIC, the thread size is the same as SAE fine thread bolts. You can buy a bolt that size and thread pitch and use it as a thread gage.