Brush loosened an oil plug my L2950

[D2Cat]

knightgang, whatever path you take....I can tell you I had an opportunity to purchase an L2950 about 2 months ago. It had a nice loader, but the engine had a hole in the side.

I looked at every source I know to try to locate an engine to fit that tractor. North Idaho Wolfman used his resources to come up with something. We found nothing.

My point is, you extend the use of your tractor to the point it creates a similar hole, your best call is to http://wkytpstore.com/ and get a bid for salvage value. I don't think you'll find an engine to replace yours.

 

[chieffan]

Wolfe, I appreciate the feedback that you post to help members if this forum, including me. However, while I am asking a lot of this tractor, I do not think that I am in anyway pushing it beyond it limits. You have not seen the area in question and therefore cannot place an accurate judgement on just how thick of brush this is. We do not run over trees lager than about 2in in diameter and we try to avoid those. Most of them end up pushing over then it gets chopped while laying flat on the ground.

The great majority of the grown is wild bushes and vines. We are taking very good care of the tractor and other than this unfortunate incident with the oil plug, nothing else of significance has happened to it other than normal wear and tear. (Knocking a light off the fender does not count in my book and will be fixed once we are done with this clearing.)

Point being, there is more than one way to fix my issue at hand. Aluminum has a significantly lower melting point than steel and therefore the melted aluminum is all that I expect to find wrong with the crank journal. Once I get the aluminum off and polish I will take multiple measurements of that journal and the other two corresponding journal to see if there is any significant difference to be concerned about. Since the bearings was still in the journal, no steel to steel contact was make between the crank and the rod, therefore the crank nor the rod should be out of round. I am still debating on reusing that rod and will be taking measurements of it tonight to make a final determination.

The process I described above for cleaning and salvaging a crank shaft has been used for many decades in everything from V-8 trucks to racing motorcycles, drag cars and semi diesels. It all comes down to tolerance. If the tolerance is correctly within spec (weather done this way or at a machine shop) then it is within spec and will perform just fine.

I think you assume I am trying to cut corners and will grenade my engine by doing so. While I am trying to save dollars I am also trying to save time by not having to rely on others. If I can make this repair within spec on my own, then I will have this tractor back to work before any other shop can do it for me while dealing with other workloads and waiting on parts.

Again, if it does not meet spec and needs additional work at a machine shop, then it will go the the machine shop. Either way, it will be done right and within spec. Question here is who decides what is right? Old timers that have performed backyard fixes for decades or the professional that does this everyday with near endless resources. I say it does not matter if it works and stands the test of time and that is all about the specs.

I agree with your statements 100%. Several one this site contribute some very good solid information. But there are time that the piece of paper on the wall does not mean there is only one way to accomplish the end result. The company training is geared to make the company more money by selling their products and that is the ONLY correct way to do something. They forget that there is a lot of us out here that still have the know how and ability without that piece of paper and a high tech shop to work in. Go for it. Your on the right track.

 

[D2Cat]

Chieffan, you amaze me. You come to a forum looking for help, and what you receive you dislike. That's your prerogative.

There is no one giving you advise that is working for a company and promoting that companies products.

There is no one giving you advise that has " the piece of paper on the wall" telling you there is only one way to accomplish a task.

Whom ever you're speaking to very likely has the know how and the ability without that piece of paper and a high tech shop to work in. You're calling the kettle black!

Re-read your quote and realize you don't have enough facts to make this judgement from the information you've received on this forum.

"But there are time that the piece of paper on the wall does not mean there is only one way to accomplish the end result. The company training is geared to make the company more money by selling their products and that is the ONLY correct way to do something. They forget that there is a lot of us out here that still have the know how and ability without that piece of paper and a high tech shop to work in."

Take your years of experience, with what ever education you have, and what ever work environment you have, and what ever tools you have and help others, not complain! That's the attitude of those who offered any advise.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

http://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/showthread.php?p=175398#post175398

 

[knightgang]

The engine in that model is very RARE.
D1462-DI-AE
The only good source of parts for that engine is going to be Kubota, no other aftermarket sources that I know deal in that engine.

Sadly you're going to need to pull the engine and do a full rebuild.
When these engines lose oil pressure the scar several different locations, mains, rods, cylinder walls, valve guides, oil pump and many other points.

http://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/showthread.php?p=175398#post175398

Wolfe, I saw your post. I commented there as you knowledge is valuable and you help a ton of people on this board.

However, look back at your comments from the 2nd post. You stated that by loosing oil pressure that everything in the engine will be scored and require a full rebuild. I have disassembled it and confirmed that was not the case, the diagnosis of damage is far less than what you described (quite frankly your comments are what I expected), however your insistence that the same level of rebuild must still be preformed has not changed even with the confirmed diagnosis of damage. That is the point that I am at a loss. I have committed that if things are not in proper specs once cleaned up and ready for assembly, then it will be the point that it comes apart for full dis-assembly and further machining.

For someone that is getting paid to make a repair, you don't want to be blamed for not taking every precaution to ensure that it is correct. You also don't want repeat returns for the same issue, I get that 100%. I also have quite a bit of wrench time and maintain 3 Ford Diesel Engines that I own, drive and wrench on so I am not a newbie at working on engines and understanding tolerances and true rounds of a shaft or rod journal.

On my tractor, I will be pulling the front cover in the morning to check the shaft gears and get another angle of the 1st main bearing. Honestly with as smooth as the crank turns with the pistons removed I do not expect to find any further damage than that one bearing. Once the aluminum is removed from the crank journal and it is polished and checked with a micrometer, I expect it will be within .001" of the other journals.

I am not planning on slapping this thing together blindly and hoping for the best. I am planning on taking my time and ensuring the specs are correct and no further damage can be found. If found, appropriate action will be taken to make corrections and repairs.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

You stated that by loosing oil pressure that everything in the engine will be scored and require a full rebuild.

I should have said "CAN BE scored and MIGHT require a rebuild", nothing is an absolute.

I do wish you the best, I really do!

We are good, just do it right and no one gets hurt!

 

[chieffan]

Thanks Wolf. That changes some of the statements you made. I am not going to comment any more on this as the more it is stirred the worse it stinks.
Thanks for the information and advise. Have a good weekend.

 

[knightgang]

Spent the day out with the tractor and I am feeling really good. Started with soaking the crank journal in Muratic Acid. Let it sit about 3 hours with a acid soaked rag wrapped around the journal. Once I pulled that off and neutralized the acid I spend the next couple hours polishing it. Three different grits of Emerey cloth then 600 & 800 grit wet sand paper. After I got it polished, I measured the journal with my new micrometer. I took several measurements around each journal due to the micrometer maybe not being set square or center and around the journal to be sure they all were still in true round. On average, they all specked out within .0004" of each other and the one in question is still true round. Pictures below of the before and after.

We cleaned up the pistons and I re-ringed them. Cleaned up the inside of the crank case and applied assembly lube on the crank journals and got the pistons back in the block. Tomorrow we will get them torqued down get the head back on and button the engine back up. Things are looking good.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Looks like you might have a winner!

 

[chieffan]

Looks real good there knightgang. I saved a Chevy 350 but bypassed the acid treatment. Had to use JB Weld to get things back to round again. Ran it several thousand miles that way but not hard. Just a knock around vehicle. Good luck.

 

[knightgang]

Well, it is all back together. New rod bearings, new piston rings, new intake, exhaust and head gaskets. After bleeding the fuel system of air, it fired right up and purrs like a kitten. It was getting dark about the time it fired so we let it run for about 15 - 20 minutes but it has not gotten to operating temps yet. It sounds great.

Now time to reseal that 3pt hydraulic piston and then take it back to our land this weekend and get back to work.

Wolfe, are about the torque specs that you posted, I found the same ones as well... That 36 ft lbs on the rod bolts and the 58 on the head bolts seems light to me. I torqued them back to that, but I would not be opposed to dropping the pan again to apply some more torque to the rod bolts if it is warranted. I am sure you guys will say that it is fine, it just seems really light to me...

Can't wait to get it back to the woods.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Wolfe, are about the torque specs that you posted, I found the same ones as well... That 36 ft lbs on the rod bolts and the 58 on the head bolts seems light to me. I torqued them back to that, but I would not be opposed to dropping the pan again to apply some more torque to the rod bolts if it is warranted. I am sure you guys will say that it is fine, it just seems really light to me.

I double checked the specs, yep they are right, so your good.
Yes they are right they are light, but you wouldn't want to over do it as parts can get distorted.

 

[chieffan]

Isn't it a great feeling to be back up and running again?

 

[knightgang]

I don't think I will have a problem with Brush knocking an oil plug loose again. Made this skid plate out of 14ga steel. The front is supported with the two rear (of the total 4) bolts that hold the axle swivel bracket to the frame. The rear is supported with 3/8 bolts in the loader sub frame cross member.

BTW, yes I see the small hydraulic leak. It is coming from the fittings there on the block. I will be fixing that soon. Probably just needs some thread sealer.

 

[Billdog350]

knightgang, great to hear you're back running and things are looking promising. Hope that everything continues for you! For the "light" torque rod bolts and such, I use blue locktite on anything that seems like a "low" torque. Blue is easily removed with some pressure but will help you "hold" that torque and not worry about things loosening up. Just an idea for the future.

For the pan, if you're as aggressive as you say about driving thru brush, rocks, etc...then that pan won't hold up for long...but at least you will see when it gets hit. You might want to remove that before it gets too bent and bring it to a fabrication shop and make it out of 1/4 or 3/8" steel plate with some side wings as well.

 

[knightgang]

knightgang, great to hear you're back running and things are looking promising. Hope that everything continues for you! For the "light" torque rod bolts and such, I use blue locktite on anything that seems like a "low" torque. Blue is easily removed with some pressure but will help you "hold" that torque and not worry about things loosening up. Just an idea for the future.

For the pan, if you're as aggressive as you say about driving thru brush, rocks, etc...then that pan won't hold up for long...but at least you will see when it gets hit. You might want to remove that before it gets too bent and bring it to a fabrication shop and make it out of 1/4 or 3/8" steel plate with some side wings as well.

It is much stronger than it looks. Mostly the pine sapplings and small sweet gum growth is what gave me the problem, no rocks.

I made this plate out of what I had laying around. If it looks like it needs to be heavier, I will pull it and use it as a template to make another out of thicker material.

 

[coachgeo]

.....
I made this plate out of what I had laying around. If it looks like it needs to be heavier, I will pull it and use it as a template to make another out of thicker material.

Just screw a piece of Sacrificial plywood to that plate. Replace once a year.