I need to repair and maintain my driveway that is approximately 400ft long. I'm looking for real world and pros and cons for box scrapers and grading scrapers as well as any recommendations.
Box Scraper VS Grading Scraper - l2501 - Which to choose?
- Thread starter BD-KUB
- Start date
For repairs, box scraper with scarifiers (to break up potholes) would be my choice.
When you say "...grading scrapers..." are you talking about a LandPlane? Or just a rear blade?
Do you have good top layer of gravel on the driveway? My drive is loaded with big base rocks so I can't really use a LandPlane....
When you say "...grading scrapers..." are you talking about a LandPlane? Or just a rear blade?
Do you have good top layer of gravel on the driveway? My drive is loaded with big base rocks so I can't really use a LandPlane....
Box for building and repair. Plane for maintenance.
With a box, a good operator can work a surface in any direction.
A plane only needs to be flat and dragged around.
With a box, a good operator can work a surface in any direction.
A plane only needs to be flat and dragged around.
A Landplane is what I was referring to. I'm still very green and Land pride refers to them as grade scrapers. My driveway does not have a good top layer. its very rutted and packed down so I think I'll be adding some gravel in the spring
NCL4701
Well-known member
Equipment
L4701, T2290, WC68, grapple, BB1572, Farmi W50R, Howes 500, 16kW IMD gen, WG24
Sounds like you will need to do some reshaping of the base you currently have before top dressing with more gravel. You’ll probably need the box scrape for that.
Another thing I’ve never quite grasped about the planes is it doesn’t seem they’d be particularly useful on roads with much of a crown, but I could be wrong about that.
Went through the same decision and for me I went with the box scraper for 3 main reasons. 1. The cost, for some reason the much beefier box scraper is a lot cheeper. 2. You can do more things with a box scraper than you can with the land plane. 3. You can spread gravel in reverse with the box. I think i made the right choice.
I have a land plane and box blade. Unfortunately, I have not used either that much. I think you could get by completely with a box blade if you had to pick just one. However, I find the land plane much easier to use. I had a dump truck load of foundry slag put on my drive not long ago. Spreading it and working it with the land plane was rather simple. Unless your drive is deeply rutted, you could probably get it in decent shape with a land plane. My land plane (Land Pride Grader) has the scarifiers which I guess you could use to break up the soil to help fill in ruts. My drive just had a few potholes, so I just worked it over without using them. Like NCL4701 said, I don't think you could do a crown easily with a land planer.
If you are on a budget, you can find a used box blade relatively cheap. If you want a land plane, they are almost never any used ones for sale, at least in my area. I bought one because I wanted to maintain my drive, but I have plans to put in another road and smooth out my pasture and yard as well. A land plane is kind of special purpose tool and the box blade is probably more versatile overall.
If you are on a budget, you can find a used box blade relatively cheap. If you want a land plane, they are almost never any used ones for sale, at least in my area. I bought one because I wanted to maintain my drive, but I have plans to put in another road and smooth out my pasture and yard as well. A land plane is kind of special purpose tool and the box blade is probably more versatile overall.
Would be nice to see what we are dealing with... If you have big rocks and base material showing where the tires drives, but grass in the middle or sides (ruts). You need to cut the organic material out of the middle and cut the sides down, too. That would also throw a little bit of dirt on top of the base material. Shape the road with the dirt, compact by driving on it, then add Crusher Run.
"Packed Down" is actually a good thing as long as there isn't potholes. You'll need to break up the potholes (scarifiers), add gravel and shape it so water runs off the road.
What I can tell you is that the road will look like a mess before it's finished off. You do want to get the road into good shape before adding gravel.
You need to know How to use a box blade, too. Shorter the top link, the more it cuts and fills the box. Too aggressive (with a very short top link) will be a problem, too (fills the box to the point material spills out or stops the tractor). Lengthening the top link will help smooth out the material (this can also be done the the FEL, in float mode).
You will not be able to fix the driveway in one pass. I have a hydraulic Top link and side link that lets you adjust the box blade on the fly... but it's costly. (well, time is money and it saves me plenty of time, YMMV).
When I drive down my driveway, I run my tires on the middle and slightly off on the side of the road. I never drive where the ruts are - I leave that for everyone else to use
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What he said ^......Would be nice to see what we are dealing with... If you have big rocks and base material showing where the tires drives, but grass in the middle or sides (ruts). You need to cut the organic material out of the middle and cut the sides down, too. That would also throw a little bit of dirt on top of the base material. Shape the road with the dirt, compact by driving on it, then add Crusher Run.
"Packed Down" is actually a good thing as long as there isn't potholes. You'll need to break up the potholes (scarifiers), add gravel and shape it so water runs off the road.
What I can tell you is that the road will look like a mess before it's finished off. You do want to get the road into good shape before adding gravel.
You need to know How to use a box blade, too. Shorter the top link, the more it cuts and fills the box. Too aggressive (with a very short top link) will be a problem, too (fills the box to the point material spills out or stops the tractor). Lengthening the top link will help smooth out the material (this can also be done the the FEL, in float mode).
You will not be able to fix the driveway in one pass. I have a hydraulic Top link and side link that lets you adjust the box blade on the fly... but it's costly. (well, time is money and it saves me plenty of time, YMMV).
When I drive down my driveway, I run my tires on the middle and slightly off on the side of the road. I never drive where the ruts are - I leave that for everyone else to use
I have a BB1260 as well as a Rear Blade RB1560 (no land plane) and between the two I can do whatever I need on my 500' gravel drive here in NH and my 600' one in VT. Great advice above on how critical understanding the top link impact is to the box blade, between the top link and the scarifier height (I have not needed to run the scarifiers) you can do a LOT with a box.
I use the RB for small repair and it is more versatile than people think for this purpose, especially when you flip the blade around 180 degrees...running ) in > direction.
If there's not much reshaping, you can work it out using FEL, but if there's a lot you'll need a more suitable tool.
For a crown, you can play with the hitch to get a desirable angle, and the scrapers are positioned so that debris is directed to the left, so if you scrape on the right side it moves more toward the crown. It also tends to follow the existing contour.
It's useful for simple maintenance, filling potholes, smoothing an area after spreading gravel, etc.
Would be nice to see what we are dealing with... If you have big rocks and base material showing where the tires drives, but grass in the middle or sides (ruts). You need to cut the organic material out of the middle and cut the sides down, too. That would also throw a little bit of dirt on top of the base material. Shape the road with the dirt, compact by driving on it, then add Crusher Run.
"Packed Down" is actually a good thing as long as there isn't potholes. You'll need to break up the potholes (scarifiers), add gravel and shape it so water runs off the road.
What I can tell you is that the road will look like a mess before it's finished off. You do want to get the road into good shape before adding gravel.
You need to know How to use a box blade, too. Shorter the top link, the more it cuts and fills the box. Too aggressive (with a very short top link) will be a problem, too (fills the box to the point material spills out or stops the tractor). Lengthening the top link will help smooth out the material (this can also be done the the FEL, in float mode).
You will not be able to fix the driveway in one pass. I have a hydraulic Top link and side link that lets you adjust the box blade on the fly... but it's costly. (well, time is money and it saves me plenty of time, YMMV).
When I drive down my driveway, I run my tires on the middle and slightly off on the side of the road. I never drive where the ruts are - I leave that for everyone else to use
I attached a few pics, right now its frozen so its pretty solid. As soon as it thaws it becomes a mess, my reason for wanting to add some material. I just purchased the property, so I don't know whats under the top layer or this history. All i know is that its been neglected.
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nbryan
Well-known member
Equipment
B2650 BH77 LA534 54" ssqa Forks B2782B BB1560 Woods M5-4 MaxxHaul 50039
A box blade will do the work a rear scraper will do and much more:
- can move way more dirt in one pass than a FEL
- can loosen up packed or stony ground
- can be run in reverse as a dozer blade
- is all the ballast I need
- can be worked as a log skidder using a chain
- and for me, my Stihl chainsaw sits right nice on top of my BB1560 and won't fall out.
At least start with the box scraper/blade, and see if the rear scraper/leveler/land plane is needed.
- can move way more dirt in one pass than a FEL
- can loosen up packed or stony ground
- can be run in reverse as a dozer blade
- is all the ballast I need
- can be worked as a log skidder using a chain
- and for me, my Stihl chainsaw sits right nice on top of my BB1560 and won't fall out.
At least start with the box scraper/blade, and see if the rear scraper/leveler/land plane is needed.
I would take a land plane over a box blade for driveway work. They both scrape and break up the surface, the difference is that the box blade will collect everything it picks up and you will be dragging a whole clump of that stuff down the driveway. The major difference between these two tools is that the land plane allows everything to resettle back down evenly on the ground as the clump builds up. With a box blade its much harder to redistribute everything you are collecting as you drag. People will say you can skillfully use a box blade to do the same thing, but you have to raise the blade just a tad, with the idea that it will slowly redistribute everything in the box in that bottom gap between the blade and your surface. In my experience it never works as you envision it. You get clumps of stuff, the dirt and stuff matts up, and as you raise the blade to try and let it 'slowly' redistribute evenly, it just comes out in clumps or doesnt come out at all as it is too clumped up in the box. The land plane allows everything to build up and then slowly pour over the top of the blades, and so it redistributes everything back down evenly. It just works much better on a driveway. Thats my 2 cents.
Looking quickly at your pics I would think the Box would work nicely to dig in and fill in those voids and shape it a bit for drainage. I'll let others with more experience chime in but I wouldn't hesitate to attack that with the box blade.
On the other hand, the dog will have to move.....the blade would be hell on the dog......
On the other hand, the dog will have to move.....the blade would be hell on the dog......
GreensvilleJay
Well-known member
Equipment
BX23-S,57 A-C D-14,58 A-C D-14, 57 A-C D-14,tiller,cults,Millcreek 25G spreader,
The late farmer cross the road used a heavy rear blade. Turned inward to pull material from edges to center, up one way, down the other, then turned blade 'backwards', made a pass down the center of the road.
Either will do the job nicely... actually it's a nice driveway that just has some potholes. You might have enough gravel, the far away photo does show the grass sloping away from the drive. You do want to break up the potholes before adding gravel or else they will just come back over time.
LandPlane is easier to use but more expensive. Box Blades are cheaper and the used market (around here) is pretty good (more used ones for sale).
Box Blades need more adjustments and you need to learn / know what the adjustments do. Both top link and side link and what height the 3PH is set at also comes into play.
Either unit will double as a counter weight (assuming you have a FEL?). If you don't, I would definitely lean towards a Box Blade to be able to carry more material longer distances. I prefer BB since use as a counter weight is closer to the tractor.
For getting more gravel, I get the truck to Tailgate it out down the driveway. Then touch it up. I also try to keep a small pile of gravel around to be able to address any new potholes quickly.
LandPlane is easier to use but more expensive. Box Blades are cheaper and the used market (around here) is pretty good (more used ones for sale).
Box Blades need more adjustments and you need to learn / know what the adjustments do. Both top link and side link and what height the 3PH is set at also comes into play.
Either unit will double as a counter weight (assuming you have a FEL?). If you don't, I would definitely lean towards a Box Blade to be able to carry more material longer distances. I prefer BB since use as a counter weight is closer to the tractor.
For getting more gravel, I get the truck to Tailgate it out down the driveway. Then touch it up. I also try to keep a small pile of gravel around to be able to address any new potholes quickly.
Some of the replies here seem to indicate using a grader blade rather than a box blade. I think we need to be clear about which tools we are talking about in our suggestions. There are 3 tools at play here in the replies. I will list them in the order I personally think are best for the job for the OP
1: Land Plane. Its literally designed and built for driveways and road grading. Its as simple and dropping it down and going forward. Take as many passes as you like. Its simple, its easy, and it produces the best looking driveways with the least amount of effort. You can find them with and without scarifiers teeth. It breaks up the ground in its path, passes that debri over2 blades that help break it up and loosen it, then allows it to resettle right back down on the surface. Great for resurfacing, or getting out pot holes or uneven areas of driveway, or making a gravel drive way look more like it did when you first put down the gravel. It will shuffle the rocks back to the top of the surface. It doesn't drag or move the debris like the other two options below, and doesnt typically create clumps or leave mounds at edges. The downside to a land plane is its really only good for this one purpose. The blades are low and angled specifically for the purpose of grading, so you can not use it to move material or push things. It is a specialty tool, in that it does one thing really well.
2. Grader Blade. A single tall blade, taller than a land plane, but can be angled and rotated to work in ditches and other areas. Works good if you want to try and put a little crown on the driveway. Rather than redistributing the earth back down evenly in its path it pushes it all off to whichever angle you have it set at, so it may leave a row of raised earth/debri at its edge. It has more uses though than a land plane - you can drag dirt or debri if the angle is squared. You can use it to reverse into stuff and push things like a small dozer blade.
3. Box Blade. It's a grader blade inside of a welded box meant to trap debri, dirt, rocks, surface material and not let it escape out the edges. To me this is the worst tool to try and work a driveway as it doesnt allow any easy way for debri, rocks, surface material to redeposit onto the driveway. Takes more skill to use for this purpose, and in my opinion still doesnt have the same results of a land plane. If you want to strip top layer, or move material, a box blade is perfect. It also can reverse push like the grader blade, as it often has blades that face both directions so you dont have to rotate it. If you just drop it and drag it will create a nice smooth path, but you will end up with a big bucket of dirt at the end, so if not careful you will slowly dig your driveway down lower and lower everytime you grade it. Material needs to be redistributed, which is why I think land plane is so much better.
1: Land Plane. Its literally designed and built for driveways and road grading. Its as simple and dropping it down and going forward. Take as many passes as you like. Its simple, its easy, and it produces the best looking driveways with the least amount of effort. You can find them with and without scarifiers teeth. It breaks up the ground in its path, passes that debri over2 blades that help break it up and loosen it, then allows it to resettle right back down on the surface. Great for resurfacing, or getting out pot holes or uneven areas of driveway, or making a gravel drive way look more like it did when you first put down the gravel. It will shuffle the rocks back to the top of the surface. It doesn't drag or move the debris like the other two options below, and doesnt typically create clumps or leave mounds at edges. The downside to a land plane is its really only good for this one purpose. The blades are low and angled specifically for the purpose of grading, so you can not use it to move material or push things. It is a specialty tool, in that it does one thing really well.
2. Grader Blade. A single tall blade, taller than a land plane, but can be angled and rotated to work in ditches and other areas. Works good if you want to try and put a little crown on the driveway. Rather than redistributing the earth back down evenly in its path it pushes it all off to whichever angle you have it set at, so it may leave a row of raised earth/debri at its edge. It has more uses though than a land plane - you can drag dirt or debri if the angle is squared. You can use it to reverse into stuff and push things like a small dozer blade.
3. Box Blade. It's a grader blade inside of a welded box meant to trap debri, dirt, rocks, surface material and not let it escape out the edges. To me this is the worst tool to try and work a driveway as it doesnt allow any easy way for debri, rocks, surface material to redeposit onto the driveway. Takes more skill to use for this purpose, and in my opinion still doesnt have the same results of a land plane. If you want to strip top layer, or move material, a box blade is perfect. It also can reverse push like the grader blade, as it often has blades that face both directions so you dont have to rotate it. If you just drop it and drag it will create a nice smooth path, but you will end up with a big bucket of dirt at the end, so if not careful you will slowly dig your driveway down lower and lower everytime you grade it. Material needs to be redistributed, which is why I think land plane is so much better.
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nbryan
Well-known member
Equipment
B2650 BH77 LA534 54" ssqa Forks B2782B BB1560 Woods M5-4 MaxxHaul 50039
[QUOTE="Tornado, post: 437698, member: 38303"
3. Box Blade. It's a grader blade inside of a welded box meant to trap debri, dirt, rocks, surface material and not let it escape out the edges. To me this is the worst tool to try and work a driveway as it doesnt allow any easy way for debri, rocks, surface material to redeposit onto the driveway. Takes more skill to use for this purpose, and in my opinion still doesnt have the same results of a land plane. If you want to strip top layer, or move material, a box blade is perfect. It also can reverse push like the grader blade, as it often has blades that face both directions so you dont have to rotate it. If you just drop it and drag it will create a nice smooth path, but you will end up with a big bucket of dirt at the end, so if not careful you will slowly dig your driveway down lower and lower everytime you grade it. Material needs to be redistributed, which is why I think land plane is so much better.
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A simple box blade can be adjusted and operated to avoid all the issues you mentioned. Agreed they are not as efficient or easy to operate as the other scrapers mentioned when just smoothing and basic maintenance is all that's needed.
But the box blade can do some earth work than either the plane or grader blade cannot do, at a much lower cost initially, and be adjusted and operated to do an excellent smoothing job. But is slower at it.
And the BB has a much smaller footprint for using as my ballast. The BB is my default implement on the 3-point when trailer receiver, backhoe, or chipper are not needed. The trailer receiver straps down quite nicely on top of the BB too, so that's where it's stored it, adding about 60lb ballast.
3. Box Blade. It's a grader blade inside of a welded box meant to trap debri, dirt, rocks, surface material and not let it escape out the edges. To me this is the worst tool to try and work a driveway as it doesnt allow any easy way for debri, rocks, surface material to redeposit onto the driveway. Takes more skill to use for this purpose, and in my opinion still doesnt have the same results of a land plane. If you want to strip top layer, or move material, a box blade is perfect. It also can reverse push like the grader blade, as it often has blades that face both directions so you dont have to rotate it. If you just drop it and drag it will create a nice smooth path, but you will end up with a big bucket of dirt at the end, so if not careful you will slowly dig your driveway down lower and lower everytime you grade it. Material needs to be redistributed, which is why I think land plane is so much better.
[/QUOTE]
A simple box blade can be adjusted and operated to avoid all the issues you mentioned. Agreed they are not as efficient or easy to operate as the other scrapers mentioned when just smoothing and basic maintenance is all that's needed.
But the box blade can do some earth work than either the plane or grader blade cannot do, at a much lower cost initially, and be adjusted and operated to do an excellent smoothing job. But is slower at it.
And the BB has a much smaller footprint for using as my ballast. The BB is my default implement on the 3-point when trailer receiver, backhoe, or chipper are not needed. The trailer receiver straps down quite nicely on top of the BB too, so that's where it's stored it, adding about 60lb ballast.
Yes, the box blade is more versatile - I touched on that in my post. No one is asking about what tool is best to use as a ballast here though, or which tool has the smaller footprint. The guy posted pics of his driveway and asked about the best tool to fix, repair, and maintain that driveway. I'm not going to try and talk him into a poor tool for the job he is asking about just because "well the box blade works as a great ballast, and it can do things a land plane cant" I think those things are self evident, but beside the point, he isn't asking that question. So, I answer his question with the best answer specific to his question. The best tool for that driveway is hands down a land plane, one preferably with scarifier teeth. I wouldn't even consider a box blade for that driveway if I had my pick of all 3 options. I dont know why anyone looking at those pics would even suggest a box blade over a land plane. Yes it CAN do the job, but to be frank I find box blade on my driveway to just be annoying, for reasons I mentioned in my previous post. Using a land plane however on that driveway would actually be enjoyable. Drop it and go, and watch it be transformed.
Box blade all the way. The plane will always leave an easily washed away loose surface. It just fluffs up the top.
The ONLY advantage I find with the plane is it is easier to use. Just drop it flat on the ground and drag it around. The reason it is easier to use is it is much less functional.
You can't recover any material with a plane. You can't "move" materials to fill in holes and valleys etc. You can't get close to anything in the back. You can't "plane" from up against something (your plane starts a couple feet away on a diagonal).
I have done many jobs where the materials are sitting right on the side of the driveway where the snowplow or mother nature moved them to. So I simply pull all that material back up on the surface with the box and reshape it from there.
Literally dozens of loads of material recovered from the sides of the driveways that with a plane would stay there and need to be repurchased.
Box Blade - building AND maintaining.
Land plane - Driveway maintenance that does not require moving materials around.
The ONLY advantage I find with the plane is it is easier to use. Just drop it flat on the ground and drag it around. The reason it is easier to use is it is much less functional.
You can't recover any material with a plane. You can't "move" materials to fill in holes and valleys etc. You can't get close to anything in the back. You can't "plane" from up against something (your plane starts a couple feet away on a diagonal).
I have done many jobs where the materials are sitting right on the side of the driveway where the snowplow or mother nature moved them to. So I simply pull all that material back up on the surface with the box and reshape it from there.
Literally dozens of loads of material recovered from the sides of the driveways that with a plane would stay there and need to be repurchased.
Box Blade - building AND maintaining.
Land plane - Driveway maintenance that does not require moving materials around.
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