So as best I can tell I let my MX5800 idle for a while until it ran out of gas. Not sure how long it was sitting there idling but I think a couple of hours. After charging the battery, fueling it and bleeding the fuel system it cranked up just fine and sounded like it was running well. It was probably 35-40 degrees out when I got it running again. As soon as the engine warmed up it started blowing a scary amount of smoke and the hour meter is flashing error code p3008. about the time i shut it down the DPF regen light came on. I was too worried about the smoke to run the regen though. Any ideas on what I have done to my tractor and how I can fix it?
Bonehead move
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I would guess if OP had the smarts to bleed the fuel system, he would not make that mistake.
I hope.
I hope.
Depending on how slowly your idle is set (RPM-wise) ... your DPF isn’t what I’d be concerned about.
When your engine idles slowly for long periods of time, the upper cylinders starve for lubrication. The upper cyls and piston-skirts receive splash and “sling” from the crankshaft “throws”... and long periods of slow idling is harmful for that reason.
There is some general-belief that diesel engines are better-served by long periods of idling (as opposed to gasoline engines which are usually shut-down rather than idled for long periods).... and that notion is encouraged by the long-haul trucking industry habits that practice that. 18-wheelers got into that habit because if you’re a long waay out on a trip and you shut it down and lose your air-tank for starting... or if you suffer starting issues out on-the-road... your can lose serious money and incur considerable expense getting on the road again. Sleeper-cabs also need power and refrigerated-cargo needed continuous power in earlier times.
Engines which are expected to experience long-idle-periods are specifically designed with supplemental lube and reset idle levels. Law enforcement/service vehicles also have special considerations such as higher-temp/long-nose spark plugs and different oil-control rings and directed-port main bearing squirts to deal with this.
The little 3-cylinder diesels are particularly at risk, IMO, when owners readjust their idles in an effort to achieve the “low rpm” of the ”big boys”. I’ve witnessed several instances of this among friends and acquaintances reducing the idle to the point of everything on the vehicle (RTV owners are who I’m thinking of at the moment) .... I’ve seen them reduce the idle to the point that everything on the vehicle is vibrating and rattling to the point of self-destruction. That is killing the lubrication of their engines. (The factory specification is 900-1100 rpm...and the “easy checker” on that vehicle does not have a tachometer so they have no idea what their idle actually is.... but it AIN’T supposed to be shaking itself apart. It should be a smooth idle.)
I’m only mentioning this so that compact-tractor owners don’t fall for the idea that letting that thing sit out there idling while you go in for lunch or to take a shower, etc. is a good time to let the engine idle for an hour.... because it’s NOT good for it. If you intend to leave it running at idle for long periods for good-reason... then use the manual throttle to move it up off-idle. Your engine will thank you. YMMV
When your engine idles slowly for long periods of time, the upper cylinders starve for lubrication. The upper cyls and piston-skirts receive splash and “sling” from the crankshaft “throws”... and long periods of slow idling is harmful for that reason.
There is some general-belief that diesel engines are better-served by long periods of idling (as opposed to gasoline engines which are usually shut-down rather than idled for long periods).... and that notion is encouraged by the long-haul trucking industry habits that practice that. 18-wheelers got into that habit because if you’re a long waay out on a trip and you shut it down and lose your air-tank for starting... or if you suffer starting issues out on-the-road... your can lose serious money and incur considerable expense getting on the road again. Sleeper-cabs also need power and refrigerated-cargo needed continuous power in earlier times.
Engines which are expected to experience long-idle-periods are specifically designed with supplemental lube and reset idle levels. Law enforcement/service vehicles also have special considerations such as higher-temp/long-nose spark plugs and different oil-control rings and directed-port main bearing squirts to deal with this.
The little 3-cylinder diesels are particularly at risk, IMO, when owners readjust their idles in an effort to achieve the “low rpm” of the ”big boys”. I’ve witnessed several instances of this among friends and acquaintances reducing the idle to the point of everything on the vehicle (RTV owners are who I’m thinking of at the moment) .... I’ve seen them reduce the idle to the point that everything on the vehicle is vibrating and rattling to the point of self-destruction. That is killing the lubrication of their engines. (The factory specification is 900-1100 rpm...and the “easy checker” on that vehicle does not have a tachometer so they have no idea what their idle actually is.... but it AIN’T supposed to be shaking itself apart. It should be a smooth idle.)
I’m only mentioning this so that compact-tractor owners don’t fall for the idea that letting that thing sit out there idling while you go in for lunch or to take a shower, etc. is a good time to let the engine idle for an hour.... because it’s NOT good for it. If you intend to leave it running at idle for long periods for good-reason... then use the manual throttle to move it up off-idle. Your engine will thank you. YMMV
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I don’t know about destroyed, but I think you have run it past where you can get it to auto regen. You may need the help of your dealer to get it to run a parked regen and get it back up and running. Get out your owner’s manual and read the table to diagnose which level it is at. Is it beeping at you? Which lights are flashing
For others, NEVER go off and leave one of these new tractors idling. No reason to, they start easily, and many reasons not to.
I don't have any ideas about your tractor, but you are not the first to let the tractor run unattended until the fuel ran out, I can assure you of that.
A couple summers ago I was digging dirt and using my smaller tractor pulling my dump trailer to mover the dirt. On the last load, I forgot to turn the tractor/backhoe off, and had been making trips fast enough that I had not turned the smaller tractor off while loading the trailer. So I take the last load of the day and dump it, park the smaller tractor/trailer and go up to the house for a beer.
Wife comes out, we talk a little, then she asks what that sound is... I say it must be someone on the back hill doing something.
Next day I go down to do more, and find the dash lights on, and the key in the on position, and the fuel tank empty. She had heard MY tractor running, but it never occurred to it could be MINE making the sound!
Fortunately it is a 2002 tractor with none of the modern emission BS. No fuel pump, but started right up after I filled the tank...
So you are not alone!
armylifer
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This is malarkey. Your statement "The upper cyls and piston-skirts receive splash and “sling” from the crankshaft “throws”... and long periods of slow idling is harmful for that reason." is totally wrong. Maybe long ago that was true for diesel engines but I am not aware of any engine in the last 50 years that was lubricated in that manner.
Idling a diesel engine for prolonged periods of time will not harm the engine. It may however clog up the DPF.
Given the temperature that the OP stated when he started the engine the smoke may have been due to wax burning off from fuel being gelled in the filter after sitting in the cold for awhile. I have encountered this symptom on Army trucks several times in the past.
whitetiger
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Being unaware is not the same as being wrong..... until one ignores something it’s not ignorance.
armylifer
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Okay, I phrased that response because I did not want to come off sounding like a know it all. So, I will make it a little more direct. The OP's engine is not lubricated as you suggested. Splash pan lubrication has not been used since the Model T. Is that plain enough?
I would also like to add that although some lawn mower engines and even cheaper generators use splash lubrication, that is not used on engines with oil pumps. The easiest way to determine if an engine is splash lubricated is to check it is has an oil filter. If it has an oil filter, it has an oil pump. If it has an oil pump, it is NOT splash lubricated.
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I wasn’t addressing “splash lubrication” engines. Some pressure-lube engines specifically warn in the operating manual to avoid idle rpm below 800 because it starves upper cylinders and pistons for lubrication. It’s not the only one either.
But that is not the only reason to avoid long periods of idling...there are lots of additional reasons.....don’t take my word for it. Google is your friend.
But that is not the only reason to avoid long periods of idling...there are lots of additional reasons.....don’t take my word for it. Google is your friend.
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Bmyers
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I need more caffeine, I read your comment four times and it wasn't till the fourth time did I realize you had not written "Excessive PMS". I thought it was a strange comment, but the elevator just wasn't going all the way up this morning. Pass me another cup of coffee.
BAP
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The oil pump would have to be totally worn out for that to be a problem. Chances of that being the issue is about 0.001% where as the emissions system being the is most likely 99.9% likely the cause
P3008 is excessive PM5, in other words the DPF can't hold any more soot.
Typically that means the DPF has to be removed and baked, or replaced. See dealer. Will not regenerate at level 5. Engine power is derated, it basically idles and that's about it. With a plugged exhaust EGT can get very high, enough to melt itself, so they de-rate the power enough that it won't hurt itself.
Typically that means the DPF has to be removed and baked, or replaced. See dealer. Will not regenerate at level 5. Engine power is derated, it basically idles and that's about it. With a plugged exhaust EGT can get very high, enough to melt itself, so they de-rate the power enough that it won't hurt itself.
This would be my biggest gripe about the whole regen.
Aside from all the wasted fuel, all the wasted noise and all the wasted engine hours.
Leave your diesel tractor running in the yard, come out an hour later and you need a trip to the dealer to fix something that isn't actually broken.
Imagine when all these nice factory warranties expire. The OP has a 3000.00 trip to the dealer for letting his tractor run in the yard. A lot of other people are going to have expensive trips to the dealer for other infractions than letting it run in the yard, some will actually be using them.
Aside from all the wasted fuel, all the wasted noise and all the wasted engine hours.
Leave your diesel tractor running in the yard, come out an hour later and you need a trip to the dealer to fix something that isn't actually broken.
Imagine when all these nice factory warranties expire. The OP has a 3000.00 trip to the dealer for letting his tractor run in the yard. A lot of other people are going to have expensive trips to the dealer for other infractions than letting it run in the yard, some will actually be using them.
Captain13
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M7040 4WD ROPS, ZD28, Woods (84” box blade, 72” harrow, 48” pallet forks)
The biggest problem with long duration idle is cylinder washdown. The engine, especially in cool weather, is operating at lower than normal temperature because it is not being worked. More fuel is being injected than is being burned and the excess fuel washes down the cylinder walls and begins to thin the lube oil creating a tar like substance that gums up the rings and screws up the emissions system. My owners manual specifically says that when the engine is not fully up to operating temperature, it should not be idled and to use the manual throttle control to increase the rpms. If it is left idling and the temperature of the engine begins to drop (and it will), then shut it off or increase the rpms.
That is what causes "slobber"! Engines running with light loads for extended periods of time.
washdown has not occurred here, maybe because of the climate
however I have seen diesel in engine oil a time or two usually from mechanical failure of some sort, and utter carelessness in regards to oil changes. Hey the book says 200 hours first time right? So that means I can probably go 400 hours. Oh, since I have synthetic, I can run 2000 hours on an oil change.
perhaps washdown is a function of regeneration, dunno. It wasn't discussed at any of the classes I was forced to go to. Oil quality was a big deal as was keeping the air filter clean. The biggest issue in reference to common rail was moisture and/or gasoline in the fuel. Eats supply pumps and injectors. Almost nobody checks the separator and almost everyone uses the cheapest oldest dyed fuel they can find which sits in the tanks for up to a year, picks up moisture (condensation) and is suspended in the fuel. Then it eats injectors and supply pumps; yet the owner can't figure out why. A fuel chemical analysis almost always shows water and/or gasoline, and if this happens....kubota ain't gonna warranty it. It ain't their problem the fuel's got water in it. And if it aint all flushed out and done properly, it'll happen again. Common rail stuff is extremely sensitive.
the downside to common rail, dpf, and/or def is just like diesel pickup trucks. Maintenance. You ain't ignoring it now like you could with the old stuff. Or, I guess you can but it's likely to bite you in the backside later on. And secondly, there is more maintenance that has to be done, so it costs more. That'a an unfortunate side effect of having to deal with it.
however I have seen diesel in engine oil a time or two usually from mechanical failure of some sort, and utter carelessness in regards to oil changes. Hey the book says 200 hours first time right? So that means I can probably go 400 hours. Oh, since I have synthetic, I can run 2000 hours on an oil change.
perhaps washdown is a function of regeneration, dunno. It wasn't discussed at any of the classes I was forced to go to. Oil quality was a big deal as was keeping the air filter clean. The biggest issue in reference to common rail was moisture and/or gasoline in the fuel. Eats supply pumps and injectors. Almost nobody checks the separator and almost everyone uses the cheapest oldest dyed fuel they can find which sits in the tanks for up to a year, picks up moisture (condensation) and is suspended in the fuel. Then it eats injectors and supply pumps; yet the owner can't figure out why. A fuel chemical analysis almost always shows water and/or gasoline, and if this happens....kubota ain't gonna warranty it. It ain't their problem the fuel's got water in it. And if it aint all flushed out and done properly, it'll happen again. Common rail stuff is extremely sensitive.
the downside to common rail, dpf, and/or def is just like diesel pickup trucks. Maintenance. You ain't ignoring it now like you could with the old stuff. Or, I guess you can but it's likely to bite you in the backside later on. And secondly, there is more maintenance that has to be done, so it costs more. That'a an unfortunate side effect of having to deal with it.
I luckily have a different perspective, but unlike lug bolt who sees many tractors, I only have 2, and on a hobby farm they don’t see heavy use. So far the maintenance on the L3560 (dpf) and B2650 are not much different. Annual change of engine oil and filter, water separator, fuel filter, air filters, hydraulic oil and filters on a longer time frame. Lube assorted frame parts, pretty much all the things seen on the forum for any of the older tractors. Everything on the table in the back of the owner’s manual. Well almost everything. Kubota recommends changing all the fuel hoses at a fairly early time frame, and the Kubota tech that works on mine just inspects them and says they don’t usually change them. That could bite me if the insides deteriorate. My tractors are kept inside so out of the sun most of the time.
The 3560 regens 2 to 4 times a year for 10 minutes depending on how much I use it. I do not run it full throttle all the time, using auto throttle a lot. I do run it with the screen showing how full the dpf filter is, and when it gets above 95% I pay attention to it. If it gets up to 99% I might antagonize it to trigger the regen by idling it. Last time I left it idle while I swapped an implement for the back blade. By the time I was done it was blinking and asking for rpm increase, so I did and went out back to tidy up the manure pile before winter. Done in 10min. The fuel economy is very good. Basically I have no complaints about how this tractor runs or how it works. I think it is a mindset thing. I am used to equipment that requires the operator to pay attention and follow the directions, and I don’t mind. If I continue to be lucky and don’t make any mistakes, I hope not to have to replace any common rail parts or dpf filter. At 7years old I suppose sensors could fail or something, but so far maintenance costs have been minimal.