Block heater for Grand L-4240

[dfixit1]

My local dealer is recommending a block heater for my mule.
Kubota OEM is Engine Block Heater 70000-00297
Kats KH11461

Reading the Kubota install instructions the recommend install location is on the right side farthest back expansion plug near flywheel which requires removing the hydraulic pump.
Has anyone installed one there?
Whats required for pump removal and installation?

Ive attached pictures of both heaters, the Kubota looks like its better suited for the tight location behind the pump?
Left picture OEM, right Kats

Edit: added the Kubota instructions.
Does anyone know why they suggest the location behind the hydraulic pump?

 

[rjcorazza]

I installed a Kubota block heater in my L4060 a few years ago. The instructions were generic and did not specify install location by tractor model. I installed the heater in an easily accessed freeze plug, and it works fine.
I believe the purpose of the sleeve is for more universal application, as the element does not protrude past the sleeve into the block.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

 

[mikester]

I'd consider using a lower radiator hose line heater before pulling the hydraulic pump off each time you have to replace the block heater.

Maybe they are recommending that location because it will help warm the hydraulic system oil better.

These heaters fail from time to time so if you are storing your machine outside in the elements I'd recommend some sort of engine and radiator blanket/cover system and use a more accessible frost plug or go with the rad line heater.

I've had good luck with the rad line heaters and prefer them over the frost plug ones, which for me, seemed to be prone to leaks on various machines.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

The reason for that location is the rest of the freeze plug locations don't line up very well between the cylinder castings so the element is super close to the cylinder wall, not good, that location turns out has thew biggest gap.

DO NOT drill the freeze plug out, way too easy to drill right through the cylinder wall, and that's a really really bad thing!
Just tap and edge and spin the freeze plug in the hole, then remove it.

It's not that hard to remove the Hydraulic pump, couple bolts hold the pump on and a couple lines, leave the regulator attached to the pump.

Go to Kubota at https://apps.kubotausa.com/illustrated-parts/ and pull up your model to get diagrams of the lines.

I would suggest new crush washers and O-rings for the connections.

 

[edritchey]

The dealer installed mine in a FP on the left side of the motor in my new MX series I later learned from reading on the forums that it was supposed to go in the right rear location like the OPs but it seems to be working fine so far this will be the second season for it.

 

[dfixit1]

Thanks for all your replies.
The radiator hose one seems the easiest to install for sure.
Decisions, decisions!

 

[edritchey]

The only problem with the hose inline heaters are they really don't work very well unless you have enough drop from where the hose comes out of the motor to where it enters the bottom tank of the radiator.

 

[dfixit1]

The only problem with the hose inline heaters are they really don't work very well unless you have enough drop from where the hose comes out of the motor to where it enters the bottom tank of the radiator.

Interesting note, Kats catalog doesn’t list a radiator hose model and the instructions in the back of the catalog says not to install one if it’s not listed for your model.

I am still getting some unburned fuel on a cold start so I will order the expansion plug heater and eventually install it.

 

[dfixit1]

I was getting ready to pull the trigger on the Kubota expansion plug heater and all the seals for the hydraulic pump to install on the right rear and I read the post of the poor guy that accidentally drilled 4 holes through his cylinder and piston.
What I noticed was Kubota expansion plug location isnt anything like the automotive design, most autos have the expansion plugs between the cylinders. Its evident Kubota didnt align theirs for reasons unknown. It seems to me to have a heating element in a sleeve to not be optimum.

So Im considering a 850w circulating heater with an adapter in the lower hose and tee into heater hose in thermostat housing. The hose connections are 5/8 inch on the heater and available separately are lower radiator hose adapters are 1-1/4 and 1-1/2 inch.
Does anyone know the inside diameter of the lower radiator hose? T1170-16140
Size (diameter) of heater hose on Grand L-40? T1155-72842
https://www.amazon.com/Kats-13080-Aluminum-Circulating-Heater/dp/B000I8VKOY

If I can work it out I will post pictures of the install. I also have some X10 electrical outlets and control panels so I might set the heater up with it, push a button and have it turn on remotely with a light in the barn window, sit back and have a cup of Joe.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

I was getting ready to pull the trigger on the Kubota expansion plug heater and all the seals for the hydraulic pump to install on the right rear and I read the post of the poor guy that accidentally drilled 4 holes through his cylinder and piston.
What I noticed was Kubota expansion plug location isnt anything like the automotive design, most autos have the expansion plugs between the cylinders. Its evident Kubota didnt align theirs for reasons unknown. It seems to me to have a heating element in a sleeve to not be optimum.

So Im considering a 850w circulating heater with an adapter in the lower hose and tee into heater hose in thermostat housing. The hose connections are 5/8 inch on the heater and available separately are lower radiator hose adapters are 1-1/4 and 1-1/2 inch.
Does anyone know the inside diameter of the lower radiator hose? T1170-16140
Size (diameter) of heater hose on Grand L-40? T1155-72842
https://www.amazon.com/Kats-13080-Aluminum-Circulating-Heater/dp/B000I8VKOY

If I can work it out I will post pictures of the install. I also have some X10 electrical outlets and control panels so I might set the heater up with it, push a button and have it turn on remotely with a light in the barn window, sit back and have a cup of Joe.

You really shouldn't be concerned with the sleeve, just don't use a drill, I never do, and I've used a lot of them (all of mine have that setup right now, and they work perfectly, they heat cheaper and faster that the circulating models and the bottom hose heaters.

 

[D2Cat]

I think if you use a flat screwdriver and tap on one side ridge of the freeze plug it will rotate, then pull it out.

Anyone who drills 4 holes to get a freeze lug out, should probably hire out all mechanical task!

 

[dfixit1]

Ordered and received the Kubota OEM block heater for $60.05
https://rlpartssupply.com/heater-frost-plug.aspx

I dont understand the pricing difference on the web and certainly not my local dealer! I verified with R&L this was OEM before ordering.

I noticed a different online site that showed two different prices for Kubota glow plugs so I called them because part numbers were the same. He said Kubota has two lines of parts, Kubota Engine Division and Kubota Parts. One was $18.62 and the other $30.00+
Engine Division was less expensive.

Maybe that is the case with block heater?

 

[dfixit1]

So I talked to my local dealer, service manager and he said don’t put behind the hydraulic pump but instead in left side in front of starter. Pulled plug and it was a bear. Now I see why Kubota says install behind hydraulic pump. ARG!

 

[eserv]

So I talked to my local dealer, service manager and he said don’t put behind the hydraulic pump but instead in left side in front of starter. Pulled plug and it was a bear. Now I see why Kubota says install behind hydraulic pump. ARG!

View attachment 49388

If you do put the block heater in that hole be sure the element is horizontal . Otherwise the top part of it will be above the coolant and will burn out prematurely

 

[whitetiger]

So I talked to my local dealer, service manager and he said don’t put behind the hydraulic pump but instead in left side in front of starter. Pulled plug and it was a bear. Now I see why Kubota says install behind hydraulic pump. ARG!

View attachment 49388

All the soft plug holes in Tier 4, common rail blocks are shaped this way. The plug can not be turned and removed, you have to drill a hole in the center and pull them.
The reason for putting a block heater as far rearward as possible is so you are heating the entire block rather than just the front part of it. As the coolant warms, the thermostat starts opening allowing coolant to circulate. If the heater is in the front or center of the block you get little to no heat at the rear of the block.

 

[dfixit1]

All the soft plug holes in Tier 4, common rail blocks are shaped this way. The plug can not be turned and removed, you have to drill a hole in the center and pull them.
The reason for putting a block heater as far rearward as possible is so you are heating the entire block rather than just the front part of it. As the coolant warms, the thermostat starts opening allowing coolant to circulate. If the heater is in the front or center of the block you get little to no heat at the rear of the block.

“All the soft plug holes in Tier 4, common rail blocks are shaped this way.”
So the right rear hole is shaped the same way?

The dealer said they install them on left in front of starter because when they go bad you don’t want to have to pull the hydraulic pump. He suggested drilling carefully, and using a slide hammer which I did. I cut a piece of stiff vinyl tubing to fit over drill bit to prevent too deep penetration. The slide hammer just pulled the screw-in bit out of expansion plug enlarging hole. Drilled another horizontal to it and slide hammer again just pulled through enlarging hole. Chiseled between the two horizontally and used a crows foot to pop out. Each time I drilled I took a piece of thin welding rod (wire) and probed behind hole to check for clearance. That’s when I felt the block casting across top and bottom.

 

[mikester]

The problem with block heaters is they ALL fail at one time or another so if your thinking is oh well I only suffer once then think again. That's another reason why I prefer the lower rad hose solution...easier to get at.

 

[dfixit1]

“The problem with block heaters is they ALL fail at one time or another so if your thinking is oh well I only suffer once then think again. That's another reason why I prefer the lower rad hose solution...easier to get at.”

I considered that option but unfortunately my Kubota didn’t have the “rise” recommended on the lower hose for that heater.

 

[dfixit1]

Tested it today with barn temp 44* which causes the white smoke, unburned fuel on the I-tier 4. Plugged it in for 30 minutes while filling the firewood rack and no white smoke.
Upper radiator hose was cold and heater felt hot. So far I’m happy.

 

[JDPIX]

From the picture of the block with removed plug, what is the aluminum above & below the slot, is that just to keep the plug from going in too far? What happens if one of those gets drilled? I know the cylinder wall is in the back, I'm just talking about what is seen in the picture.