Black smoke, soot = concern?

[christhefur]

Thanks in advance for your feedback here!

I have a new-to-me L4400 (330 hrs, 2009-ish, GST, with loader - love it). We did an oil change on it before winter (it is -10c/ 14f today) and I put some lighter oil in it (5w40 rotella) rather than the 'usual' for winter on advice of a friend.

It has been puffing black smoke on startup since I got it, but today it did something extra - it started spitting black soot or oil or something out the exhaust - a fair amount of it. I took a photo (URL below).

To add to concern, it stalled out multiple times last night while snow plowing, and then again this morning. I thought it was the seat sensor, but wasn't able to re-create the stall with the seat sensor.

Only thing I can think - I added a 1/2 litre of lucas heavy duty oil additive to the top of the engine (because access is easy) last night - could this have caused the problem? Oil level is right between minimum and max on the dip stick.

drive.google.com/open?id=1DmdBTIWiWj_HZzDFh2YiAPXbWbhDfp4-
Edit - also uploaded short vid - drive.google.com/open?id=17AA3sSrwYXuUmE6RZloNIfT6FaTDQbpP

The puff of black is only right after startup, which I thought was normal (like other diesel tractors), then the smoke goes white, but the black stuff on the snow is new.

I LOVE this tractor - it is basic, tough, reliable, goes anywhere - and really want to nip any problems in the bud.

 

[D2Cat]

Sounds like diesel slobber. Engine needs to run with a load and not idle and it may clear up. Work it, do let it idle.

 

[christhefur]

"Diesel slobber" lol, sounds good to me! Snow plowing doesn't work it very hard, so will work it and see if it improves. Just didn't want to make it worse. Once warmed up, I ran it at full throttle and it seemed fine to me.

 

[Pau7220]

Only thing I can think - I added a 1/2 litre of lucas heavy duty oil additive to the top of the engine (because access is easy) last night - could this have caused the problem? Oil level is right between minimum and max on the dip stick.

That's very low hours to have a need for a viscosity thickener. All additives have a use. IMHO, Lucas HDEO additive is great to extend the life of a 1964 Chevy V8 that burns a quart of oil in 500 miles. Other than that, I've personally seen the black sludge it leaves behind (2012 Honda 2.4 50K mi.) in a CRV the owner bought new..... He thought he was doing the right thing. Besides that, it severely thickens the oil when it gets cold......... You put the Rotella T6 in for quick lubrication when cold. You can't get a better oil for the money. Personally, I'd stay away from oil additives. Only additive you should need is for the fuel, anti-gel and algaecide...... Which I would double check for gasoline or water contamination.

 

[christhefur]

That's very low hours to have a need for a viscosity thickener. All additives have a use.

Excellent feedback, that makes a lot of sense. My mistake. I thought I was giving it a treat but I can see how it would just gum things up. I suppose also if I was adding lucas, it should have been the synthetic additive. I have been adding anti-gel /fuel conditioner to every tank.

 

[BigG]

I would put in a diesel fuel conditioner, drier/ anti-gel, and replace the fuel filter. Since it was acting up the night before it may be all it needs.

 

[RCW]

Yep - I'm with the other guys - sounds normal black smoke on start-up, and diesel slobber like 'Cat said. Work it!

The start-up may well improve with some running/working time. Keep an eye on the white smoke. Don't want to see that for very long, but a little when cold is common when starting.

300 hours in 20 years is a lot of downtime. I would do an entire service of fluids and filters so you have yourself a baseline of those things, and get any water out of it from sitting. Air, Fuel, Oil, Hydraulic. Don't forget the front axle. It's often overlooked, and often low when new. We've had guys with a bunch of water in the hubs....water froze and locked up the wheel!

Rotella T6 5w-40 is what I and many others use, year-round is typical.

I probably wouldn't have dumped the Lucas in it, but it sounds like you're second-guessing that already. Easy enough to fix....

Sound like a great tractor - a good one with 300 hours is a great find!

 

[rbargeron]

Black smoke (soot) is often just un-burned fuel. Try using higher revs and a lower gear. A short black belch on startup is a standard occurrence. With side-discharge exhaust the black puff is more noticeable than with a vertical stack. No worries. Additives poured in the top drain down into the crankcase right away. Again, no worries.

 

[RCW]

I would also recommend a Workshop Manual (WSM).

I see a free Operators Manual here, but not the WSM:

http://www.kubotabooks.com/

There are other sources for them.

Also, Kubota has real good parts diagrams on their website. I don't have the Canadian site bookmarked, but it's out there...

Good luck!

 

[christhefur]

Yep - I'm with the other guys - sounds normal black smoke on start-up, and diesel slobber like 'Cat said. Work it!

The start-up may well improve with some running/working time. Keep an eye on the white smoke. Don't want to see that for very long, but a little when cold is common when starting.

300 hours in 20 years is a lot of downtime. I would do an entire service of fluids and filters so you have yourself a baseline of those things, and get any water out of it from sitting. Air, Fuel, Oil, Hydraulic. Don't forget the front axle. It's often overlooked, and often low when new. We've had guys with a bunch of water in the hubs....water froze and locked up the wheel!

Rotella T6 5w-40 is what I and many others use, year-round is typical.

I probably wouldn't have dumped the Lucas in it, but it sounds like you're second-guessing that already. Easy enough to fix....

Sound like a great tractor - a good one with 300 hours is a great find!

Every dent and scratch it has, I've put on it! We use it on an old farm we bought, it's done some serious bush whacking and plowing and other chores and has taken a bit of a superficial beating since I got it in the summer.

I think it was a great find, it was garage stored and rarely used. I did get a service kit for it from a dealer, and we changed the oil filter, oil, fuel filter, air filter. The Hydraulic oil and filter was done by the previous owner and looks brand new, so I left it.

Oil in the front hubs (4wd) was low, and there was a slow leak from the wheel hubs, (which I used to get a discount on the price) but it seems to have stopped (and the level is fine now). Might have just been from lack of use.

I'll change the oil and filter again fairly soon. Any source for the oil filters? I don't live near a dealer, the kit I ordered online from Kubota Canada.

 

[christhefur]

Black smoke (soot) is often just un-burned fuel. Try using higher revs and a lower gear. A short black belch on startup is a standard occurrence. With side-discharge exhaust the black puff is more noticeable than with a vertical stack. No worries. Additives poured in the top drain down into the crankcase right away. Again, no worries.

Great to know, gives me some peace of mind, thanks.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Messicks or Coleman. Both online. both ship to Canada. Keep using Kubota OEM filters, they are the best to use and competitive in cost.

 

[greenacresnorth]

I hate to be the only different answer here but that sure looks an awful lot like moisture mixed with soot blowing out the exhaust. my L2501 did the exact same thing with factory exhaust system during the winter.

 

[christhefur]

I hate to be the only different answer here but that sure looks an awful lot like moisture mixed with soot blowing out the exhaust. my L2501 did the exact same thing with factory exhaust system during the winter.

OK, what does this mean? How does it happen, is it a problem, and if so how to fix? Did your L2501 end up OK?

 

[greenacresnorth]

OK, what does this mean? How does it happen, is it a problem, and if so how to fix? Did your L2501 end up OK?

when fuel is burned H2O is a by product, when you first start a gas engine when the weather is cold that moisture condenses out in the cool muffler causing the drips of water. your tractor is no different, diesel is a bit drier so there isnt a constant drip like your car but still there.

 

[Bulldog]

Might consider a different weight oil since you're in cold climate. I use Amsoil series 3000 5w30 in mine and cold weather doesn't effect the performance. Poor point is -53 and doesn't have the need for additional additives.

I use either Amsoil or Donaldson filters. The Donaldson filters I get from TruckPro.

 

[christhefur]

OP here, it is still slobbering diesel on startup, even after working it hard for the last few days. Used it to skid logs today, ran it at high RPMs. I might do another oil change on it, even though I just changed it. It just rolled over to 350 hours. Temps getting down to -20 -25c this week. Maybe a lighter oil as suggested.

 

[JeffL]

Are you sure it is diesel fuel? At these temps it is most likely water and soot mixed. Take a clean piece of paper and let the exhaust splatter on it. Take to a warmer area, fuel or engine oil will grow oil spots from the splatter. Water will dry leaving the black dry soot. Worth a try.

 

[christhefur]

Are you sure it is diesel fuel? At these temps it is most likely water and soot mixed. Take a clean piece of paper and let the exhaust splatter on it. Take to a warmer area, fuel or engine oil will grow oil spots from the splatter. Water will dry leaving the black dry soot. Worth a try.

Will try that, thanks. I am not sure as I'm new to tractors as of last year, the slobber didn't start until recently. This is my first winter with this tractor. Up until winter it was starting fine without any soot/ slobber/ black, now it does it every startup and the dark stuff is splattered on the left side of the loader and bucket.

I'm competent with tools, used to doing my own servicing of vehicles, but lots to learn.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Mine winds up on the hood usually. I have a stack on my M's. Black spots on orange, the new color scheme.