backhoe
- Thread starter lilguy
- Start date
I've had a Woods (3-point) and a BradCo (frame mount) and both worked pretty much as advertised. Currently have a Kubota frame mount construction-level backhoe.
Depending on your needs or desires you may be a bit disappointed in a 3-point mount backhoe. Most all will be lighter duty and relatively shallow diggers. And then only in 'good' soil conditions.
You need to watch for the potential to damage the 3-point if overstressed using the backhoe.
Consider the hydraulics: tractor supplied (sufficient volume and pressure?) or PTO-driven independent hydraulic pump as part of the backhoe itself.
You'll also find that mounting and dismounting may not be a trivial exercise. And no matter what you have on the tractor at the moment you'll always need a different implemement.
Here's my point(s), based on experience:
(1) consider frame-mount compared to 3-point mount,
(2) consider renting for those occasions when backhoe is needed,
(3) consider another machine with dedicated backhoe.
Depending on your need, inclinations, abilities, and desire, you can turn up used Case backhoes in the $5,000 range that will work fine for occasional use. You'll spend at least that much for a backhoe implement for your tractor. The Case will be well-worn but perhaps meet your needs and then you resell it for the same money.
One cautionary note wrt Cases: every dang thing on them (hydraulic cylinders) is so big you can't work on them without help and / or A-frame hoist or cherry-picker.
We finally got the point where we decided it was more efficient to have two machines---one tractor for farm use and one backhoe for digging and moving material.
Insights provided for whatever value you can wring from them.
Good luck.
Please post back your continuing experiences so we may all learn.
Depending on your needs or desires you may be a bit disappointed in a 3-point mount backhoe. Most all will be lighter duty and relatively shallow diggers. And then only in 'good' soil conditions.
You need to watch for the potential to damage the 3-point if overstressed using the backhoe.
Consider the hydraulics: tractor supplied (sufficient volume and pressure?) or PTO-driven independent hydraulic pump as part of the backhoe itself.
You'll also find that mounting and dismounting may not be a trivial exercise. And no matter what you have on the tractor at the moment you'll always need a different implemement.
Here's my point(s), based on experience:
(1) consider frame-mount compared to 3-point mount,
(2) consider renting for those occasions when backhoe is needed,
(3) consider another machine with dedicated backhoe.
Depending on your need, inclinations, abilities, and desire, you can turn up used Case backhoes in the $5,000 range that will work fine for occasional use. You'll spend at least that much for a backhoe implement for your tractor. The Case will be well-worn but perhaps meet your needs and then you resell it for the same money.
One cautionary note wrt Cases: every dang thing on them (hydraulic cylinders) is so big you can't work on them without help and / or A-frame hoist or cherry-picker.
We finally got the point where we decided it was more efficient to have two machines---one tractor for farm use and one backhoe for digging and moving material.
Insights provided for whatever value you can wring from them.
Good luck.
Please post back your continuing experiences so we may all learn.
Stubbyie, your post should be in a sticky so anyone asking questions about a backhoe for their tractor can easily find it and get the whole story.
My opinion doesn't count much, but I have 8 tractors of various sizes. Some are pretty much toys, some do work for their keep! None have a BH on them.
I do have a BH but it's kinda like you suggested. It's a Ditch Witch R40 trencher. It's smaller then a 580 Case, but WAY bigger then a shovel! I can dig a trench 4' deep from 6" wide to 12" wide (with spacers), or turn around and dig a ditch with a 16" bucket and backfill with a 6-way blade.
My opinion doesn't count much, but I have 8 tractors of various sizes. Some are pretty much toys, some do work for their keep! None have a BH on them.
I do have a BH but it's kinda like you suggested. It's a Ditch Witch R40 trencher. It's smaller then a 580 Case, but WAY bigger then a shovel! I can dig a trench 4' deep from 6" wide to 12" wide (with spacers), or turn around and dig a ditch with a 16" bucket and backfill with a 6-way blade.
Thanks for the kind comment D2Cat. Just like you, trying to spread hard-earned experience so somebody else doesn't reinvent the wheel. Or backhoe.
I've looked at the trencher-type machines and considered them seriously but just couldn't see them working well in our rocky soil. Rental machines we've used in the area hit a rock and bounce off to one side creating a ditch constructed of a series of 'C'-shaped arcs. I like straight lines.
The backhoe has become our go-to machine if not a tillage or cutting chore.
With R-4 tires even as heavy as that thing is it will walk across a mud flat that I can't myself walk across without sinking to my ankles.
We've had a dozen tractors of all colors pass through the place over the last 35-yrs and finally landed with Kubota. And a couple of 1940's parts machines that may someday run again.
Lately I've developed an itch for a small excavator. Sort of hard to justify but am working on it.
Highly recommend to any landowner that a dedicated backhoe in some form is well worth having, but am reluctatant to endorse 3-point types as noted prior.
Comments on the subject invited and appreciated. Would like to hear back from original poster about how he proceeds and the results. Nothing like communicating shared experiences.
I've looked at the trencher-type machines and considered them seriously but just couldn't see them working well in our rocky soil. Rental machines we've used in the area hit a rock and bounce off to one side creating a ditch constructed of a series of 'C'-shaped arcs. I like straight lines.
The backhoe has become our go-to machine if not a tillage or cutting chore.
With R-4 tires even as heavy as that thing is it will walk across a mud flat that I can't myself walk across without sinking to my ankles.
We've had a dozen tractors of all colors pass through the place over the last 35-yrs and finally landed with Kubota. And a couple of 1940's parts machines that may someday run again.
Lately I've developed an itch for a small excavator. Sort of hard to justify but am working on it.
Highly recommend to any landowner that a dedicated backhoe in some form is well worth having, but am reluctatant to endorse 3-point types as noted prior.
Comments on the subject invited and appreciated. Would like to hear back from original poster about how he proceeds and the results. Nothing like communicating shared experiences.
Daren Todd
Well-known member
Lifetime Member
Equipment
Massey Ferguson 1825E, Kubota Z121S, Box blade, Rotary Cutter
Great advise stubby. On a side note, my property eats backhoes 
we have maybe two months where you can get a backhoe into the yard. July and august. Early july is a still a little iffy in some spots. I've rented a kubota b@@ backhoe. Can't remember the number, but the smaller of the popular rental size. Could go pretty much any where on the property, but certain spots as soon as you start to dig, it will bury the back. Had a 20,000lb deere with r3's last year. The week of july 4th. Darn thing sunk like the titanic just driving through the back yard. And to walk on it, you would think it was concrete The operator came into the back yard and I could see the ground rolling like a wave Before I could stop him it was up to the frame So i've come to the conclusion, on my property it's a mini ex for digging. Anything else is just a waste of money
we have maybe two months where you can get a backhoe into the yard. July and august. Early july is a still a little iffy in some spots. I've rented a kubota b@@ backhoe. Can't remember the number, but the smaller of the popular rental size. Could go pretty much any where on the property, but certain spots as soon as you start to dig, it will bury the back. Had a 20,000lb deere with r3's last year. The week of july 4th. Darn thing sunk like the titanic just driving through the back yard. And to walk on it, you would think it was concrete The operator came into the back yard and I could see the ground rolling like a wave Before I could stop him it was up to the frame So i've come to the conclusion, on my property it's a mini ex for digging. Anything else is just a waste of money Thank you all. I also have a B8200HST as a mower, no frt loader on it. Have a
log splitter on the 2250 now but that and all other implements also do the job with the 8200. The unit I'm looking at has a rear PTO pump, 6 frt digging depth
and a thumb attachment. Not sure about stability of a rear 3 point with gravity down force. There are a lot of issues with the hitch mounted units.
log splitter on the 2250 now but that and all other implements also do the job with the 8200. The unit I'm looking at has a rear PTO pump, 6 frt digging depth
and a thumb attachment. Not sure about stability of a rear 3 point with gravity down force. There are a lot of issues with the hitch mounted units.
Excavators have their place but you'll miss that loader really bad if you don't have another loader handy.
A properly handled backhoe is equal to a mini-excavator in digging, but the mini can go places the backhoe can't, so I totally see the logic. If you intend to 'pack' the ground, the excavators aren't so good unless you get a sheeps foot wheel for them. Backhoe's are really good wheel packers cause they weigh so darned much.
Daren, I'm really curious what your soil is made up of that it can feel hard but can't support a backhoe. You have clay over sand or something?
A properly handled backhoe is equal to a mini-excavator in digging, but the mini can go places the backhoe can't, so I totally see the logic. If you intend to 'pack' the ground, the excavators aren't so good unless you get a sheeps foot wheel for them. Backhoe's are really good wheel packers cause they weigh so darned much.
Daren, I'm really curious what your soil is made up of that it can feel hard but can't support a backhoe. You have clay over sand or something?
Daren Todd
Well-known member
Lifetime Member
Equipment
Massey Ferguson 1825E, Kubota Z121S, Box blade, Rotary Cutter
Rice paddy
Nothing but clay six feet down then switches to hard pan. No place for the water to go Top 6" of the lower section out back will get good and crisp on top, but after that it starts to get gooey. It's funny though, there's a working quarry within 1/4 mile of the house. Neighborhood was built in the early 80's. I've been in the house five years. According to the neighbors, the whole neighborhood has had drainage issues. I've been wondering if the developer filled in a swamp but didn't go deep enough with the fill
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I bought a pasture like that once. Beautiful piece of land, good stand of grass, great price, I bit. Same thing as you describe. I eventually found out the whole area had a clay bed like a big bowl with the low spot right under my pasture, which was basically floating. You could drop a post hole digger 2-3' in the heat of summer and hit mud/water. It would get hard on top, and you were mostly ok in the summer. But other times when it looked fine, and would be fine for a bit, tractor tires on my old tractor would break through, and it was straight to the bell with little warning. I was able to winch/walk it out most of the time, but also had to higher a track dozer, and it almost got stuck once. Never saw a big dozer like that look like it was getting stuck before. I was so glad to sell that plot...
Daren and then others discuss in this thread soil conditions.
The best I can offer is that the material is probably highly silted with some deeper obstruction layer holding what amounts to a standing pool of water-saturated soil just below the surface.
I too have an area you can walk over and pound a fence post into but as soon as you move equipment onto it, it sinks.
Think of it somewhat like using a vibrator when placing concrete into forms.
Several years ago we were cleaning out drought-lowered ponds and had a local D-8 hired for a couple days. We trundled him between ponds and as he approched one my spouse was walking alongside him. I was back a ways and all of a sudden I saw her rise up in the air, easily a foot or so.
The dozer tracks set up a wave in the soil as it approched the wetted perimeter of the pond. Dozer guy threw it in backwards and got out of there. Then he moved over a few feet and tried again. Same deal. I wish we had had a camera. It was spooky watching the soil move in waves like the ocean.
Guy dismounted, walked over, and said, "Ain't gonna bury that
b_ _ _ _ 'cause we'll never git 'er out 'o thet mess." Said he'd only seen that happen once before in his life as equipment operator. Naturally on our place.
This is when we started using long-dipper excavators to clean ponds. Works a lot better and generally faster.
Along these same lines, when cleaning with that dozer had him in one rock-bottom pond and spouse had 5-gal bucket. He'd stop at the end of a push and she'd walk out his treads and pick up catfish that had flopped up top of the muck. Great fish fry that weekend. So instead of worms we use Cats when fishing.
Interesting postings; please continue noting experiences so we may all learn.
The best I can offer is that the material is probably highly silted with some deeper obstruction layer holding what amounts to a standing pool of water-saturated soil just below the surface.
I too have an area you can walk over and pound a fence post into but as soon as you move equipment onto it, it sinks.
Think of it somewhat like using a vibrator when placing concrete into forms.
Several years ago we were cleaning out drought-lowered ponds and had a local D-8 hired for a couple days. We trundled him between ponds and as he approched one my spouse was walking alongside him. I was back a ways and all of a sudden I saw her rise up in the air, easily a foot or so.
The dozer tracks set up a wave in the soil as it approched the wetted perimeter of the pond. Dozer guy threw it in backwards and got out of there. Then he moved over a few feet and tried again. Same deal. I wish we had had a camera. It was spooky watching the soil move in waves like the ocean.
Guy dismounted, walked over, and said, "Ain't gonna bury that
b_ _ _ _ 'cause we'll never git 'er out 'o thet mess." Said he'd only seen that happen once before in his life as equipment operator. Naturally on our place.
This is when we started using long-dipper excavators to clean ponds. Works a lot better and generally faster.
Along these same lines, when cleaning with that dozer had him in one rock-bottom pond and spouse had 5-gal bucket. He'd stop at the end of a push and she'd walk out his treads and pick up catfish that had flopped up top of the muck. Great fish fry that weekend. So instead of worms we use Cats when fishing.
Interesting postings; please continue noting experiences so we may all learn.
Daren Todd
Well-known member
Lifetime Member
Equipment
Massey Ferguson 1825E, Kubota Z121S, Box blade, Rotary Cutter
I got mad this winter and ran a ditch across the back yard with a middle buster. Course, then all of a sudden we got snow and rain for the next three months grounds finally drying out enough to where I can chew up the sides of the ditch with the box blade and rippers to smooth out the edges. Next thing is to rent a dozer to regrade everything to the sway ditch to cut down on standing water. Probably gonna put in a couple more sway ditches, one on the edge of the property bordering the neighbors to redirect drainage from there property to the sway ditch. And another along the back of the propety to divert the runoff from the 25 acre field. Right now that field drains into my back yard as well as the neighbors. Thought about opening up the back yard for a spot for dumping fill, but then the neighbor would get flooded out completely I'm up for other options for drainage.
grounds finally drying out enough to where I can chew up the sides of the ditch with the box blade and rippers to smooth out the edges. Next thing is to rent a dozer to regrade everything to the sway ditch to cut down on standing water. Probably gonna put in a couple more sway ditches, one on the edge of the property bordering the neighbors to redirect drainage from there property to the sway ditch. And another along the back of the propety to divert the runoff from the 25 acre field. Right now that field drains into my back yard as well as the neighbors. Thought about opening up the back yard for a spot for dumping fill, but then the neighbor would get flooded out completely I'm up for other options for drainage. 
A lot of good info already been shared, maybe I can add a little. I bought a new Kubota backhoe (3pt mount) and had a few issues. From the start it worried me about the strain being put on the 3pt. That reason alone limits what you're willing to do with it. Lets just say when things start popping and cracking and you spend more time looking at the rear of the tractor to see if something broke you have a problem.
Next thing unless you have a tractor you can leave it on all the time you'll find the next problem. I found myself either putting jobs off or digging by hand because I didn't want to put the backhoe on. Sometimes it could take over a hour to put it on and then take it off when I had to do it by myself.
IMHO they are much more trouble than they are worth. Myself I ended up with a Bobcat mini x and it had been one of the best buys yet. After I bought it I never used the backhoe again and ended up selling it just to get it out of the way.
My advise to you would be this, don't waste your money on a 3pt backhoe. Rent when needed or if you have enough work to justify a purchase either get a mini x or backhoe, whichever will fill your needs the best.
Next thing unless you have a tractor you can leave it on all the time you'll find the next problem. I found myself either putting jobs off or digging by hand because I didn't want to put the backhoe on. Sometimes it could take over a hour to put it on and then take it off when I had to do it by myself.
IMHO they are much more trouble than they are worth. Myself I ended up with a Bobcat mini x and it had been one of the best buys yet. After I bought it I never used the backhoe again and ended up selling it just to get it out of the way.
My advise to you would be this, don't waste your money on a 3pt backhoe. Rent when needed or if you have enough work to justify a purchase either get a mini x or backhoe, whichever will fill your needs the best.
I went to the lowest part, which extended near a dry creek. I ran a turning plow as deep as I could from the dry creek across the low area going both ways, so I had a fairly deep ditch with berms on either side. Then used a gannon box to disperse the berms. On the up hill side where I got runoff from the neighbor's higher ground, I cut a cross ditch that "T" the top of the ditch leading to the dry creek. They grade of the land was such that this was fairly practical, but left a ditch somewhat bisecting the property. No doubt it did help, particularly in cutting the time getting from "recent rain bog" to "I can generally drive on it again". But the root problem of the clay bowl some 5-20 feet below the surface remained. I never did really get it fixed, only improved quite a bit.
I generally agree, but I did acquire a sub-frame backhoe with my B2150. I don't think it will be too bad. I watched a guy remove and then reinstall one with a very similar setup, having a sub-frame with big hook like drop-in "quick"(?) mounts. I would estimate 5 minutes to remove, maybe 10 putting it on. Seems like once you know what you are doing, it mostly (dis)mounts itself. The only thing that would make mine harder is that his used quick connects for the hydraulics, and mine uses a dedicated pump on the PTO, which looks like it could easily be a hassle.
BadDog, you're right. The sub-frame backhoes are way better. My first Kubota came with one and it worked great. Felt like operating a real BH and you could actually get some work done. At that time we had enough other tractors so I never had to remove it anyway, it was the best of both worlds.