Backhoe Question

[Brendawg82]

So I'm starting to research backhoe attachments and have read some really good posts on this topic. I have a l3410 and am looking to do a sub frame mount. However looking for a used sub frame mount is difficult. I'm thinking of converting a 3pt to a subframe. Does anyone have diagrams or photos showing how a subframe should mount. Also are my rear hydraulics ok to run the backhoe or do I need the additional 3pt hydraulic pump.
Thank you,
Brendan

 

[Stubbyie]

Based on my experience, you'll be happier in the long-term if you spring for the appropriate Kubota backhoe unit to fit your tractor using its designed sub-frame mount.

As for hydraulic power to the backhoe, it depends on the backhoe unit itself. Most any tractor will supply enough "fluid pressure" but what you're looking for, for production-level work, is "fluid volume" expressed as gallons per minute of flow.

The 'flow' is what makes things happen. You might have plenty of pressure but only teacup-size flow and every backhoe motion is s-l-o-w and takes f-o-r-e-v-e-r. You'd grow old digging a decent rootball.

I've never liked 3-point pumps, preferring instead the tractor's hydraulic system. Others will differ. It may be personal preference based on your particular setup.

Please post back your continuing experiences so we may all learn.

 

[Tarmy]

The previous post sums up what I think too.

No way should you mount to a three point...and the correct sub frame is a must. You will find the backhoe very useful...and will torque the hell outa the rig...and so the sub frame distributes that force to the stongest points of the tractor...including spanning the break mid point of the tractor. It will place some of the load on the front half as well.

Hydraulics should be run off the main pump for volume if possible...gallons equals speed.

View attachment 20746

 

[Billdog350]

If you can get the appropriate GPM off a PTO pump, you'll be better off not sharing the fluid between the backhoe and machine.

Another point is that the price of a new backhoe is often as much as a complete stand alone excavator....I picked up a 6000lb Takeuchi excavator with thumb in good running condition for $7500. You can accomplish a LOT more work with an X than with a similar sized backhoe...the only downside is that you can run a backhoe down a street faster and with less wear than an X.

Like everyone says, if you go for a tractor mounted backhoe, ensure you have a subframe....you WILL DESTROY your machine if you just hitch it on the 3 point and start digging. This goes for a BX, B, L or M tractor....

 

[Brendawg82]

I appreciate the responses and agree that the subframe is a stronger means of attachment. If I had the money I'd go with a mini x but around here they have a crazy price tag even very well used and abused. Again I'm having a hard time finding an affordable used subframe bh so I'm leaning towards a 3 pt and building a subframe. There's been some really good posts on building your own based on plans from Woods backhoes. I'm looking at a used 3pt that has a hydraulic pump. I have hydraulics in the rear of my tractor and was wondering, and bear in mind I'm a self proclaimed tractor newbie, can I use the bh hydraulic pump to run just the outriggers and use the tractor for the main bh cylinders. I guesse I'd be trying to maximize hydraulic pressure as an end result if that makes sense. Thanks again.

 

[sula bob]

I've got the BH90 on my L3830. I can send you any pictures and dimensions that you may want or need for the sub fame brackets.

 

[Brendawg82]

If you could send photos of how the subframe mounts to the frame that would be awesome. I don't think we have the same frame, mine is a l3410. So just knowing where and how to attach to the frame would be helpful. Also if you have any photos on how the actual bh attaches to the subframe would be helpful. I'm most likely going to end up with a 3pt bh and converting it. Thank you.

 

[millsrv]

I can only say that my frame mount Kubota BH77 works great. In fact I do most of my work running the tractors engine slightly below 2000 rpm. Digs out stumps, moves rocks, and continues to impress me. This tractor in new to me, purchased last November, so I will know better in a year or two. About 15 hours of BH time to date.
I vote for Frame Mount and Kubota BH.

 

[Brendawg82]

So a dealer fairly close to me has a 1990 3pt 4690 backhoe for $2800. Looks like it has minimal use but does need a new hose and a new seat. I'd convrt this to a frame mount just wondering if there's any opinions on this. It has a hydraulic pump but I was thinking if I could isolate the pump for the stabilizers and use my tractors rear hydraulics to run the main bh cylinders. Is this possible? Good idea? To big or small of a bh for a l3410?

 

[Bulldog]

I had a 4672 mounted on my L3000 and it was small for it. The only difference between is the boom length, the rest is the same.

I'm going to agree with Billdog350 on this one though. I did the same as he did and bought a mini x. I have a 325 Bobcat and after getting it I never used my backhoe again. The mini x will work circles around a backhoe any day of the week. Other than long distance travel they will be hard to beat.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

So a dealer fairly close to me has a 1990 3pt 4690 backhoe for $2800. Looks like it has minimal use but does need a new hose and a new seat. I'd convrt this to a frame mount just wondering if there's any opinions on this. It has a hydraulic pump but I was thinking if I could isolate the pump for the stabilizers and use my tractors rear hydraulics to run the main bh cylinders. Is this possible? Good idea? To big or small of a bh for a l3410?

I agree with all that say get a mini X, yes it will out perform a BH hands down.
But money sometimes plays a huge role in our choices.

If you get A BH with a PTO pump ,that what you want to use for the whole unit!

Your tractor puts out about 7GPM at best and most Backhoe PTO pumps are in the range of 20GPM, so a huge performance difference!

 

[millsrv]

Check Ebay, you may find a frame mounting kit to fit your tractor that can be adapted to the BH you are looking at.
This is an example I found: http://www.ebay.com/itm/331636357819
This could be simpler and less expensive in the long run, rather than starting from scratch.

 

[Brendawg82]

The bh was too small for the l3030 tractor or the tractor was too small? I rented a mini x last summer and it seemed there wasn't enough counter weight for it. My l3410 with calcium in the tires plus a fel from reading specs looks like it outweighs a mini x. The mini I rented was very small and it ran me over $200 a day plus they charge if you go over on usage based on hours. This is for my personal use not a business. I'm ok with logging some hours on it. Also where I'm digging is a tight location. I'm trying to preserve trees that have been around 100 years more then me or else I'd call for the big equipment and have the job done in day. Also what I'm digging out needs to be transported about 100 yards to be dumped. Ideally I'd have a bh and skid steer but money is a concern here.

 

[Brendawg82]

Thanks for the ebay tip. I think your right about saving time and money by modify an already built frame. I see one on ebay for a l3400. Now to research and see if the frame for my l3410 matches the l3400. Thanks again for all the help.

 

[millsrv]

If you do install a BH please take some pictures of the process and completed job and post them here. I'm sure we would all like to see them.
Good luck

 

[Billdog350]

Brendawg, what size mini did you rent? They make them all the way down to 1800lbs and all the way up to 12,000 is still considered "mini" which is a bit crazy to me.

Whatever the case, I would put a 3000-4000lb excavator on par with a backhoe on a 6000-8000lb tractor....my 6000lb takeuchi is a match for my dad's Kubota L48 (BT1100 backhoe) for almost anything.

The ability to move your material 180deg (360actually), work on side slopes, always having a counterweight, etc are all benefits of the X.

If you rented a little 2000lb unit that would make sense how it felt too small for you.

Good luck with your subframe and BH project. It sounds like you have a track to a solution, now to make it happen!

 

[Brendawg82]

The rental was a 2000lb mini. It got the job done but the hydraulics could out dig the machine. Similar to how my fel can pick up a load that lifts the tractor and counter weight may be required. It was easy to trailer and tow as well. I have thought about the full rotation of an x versus the 180 arc of the tractor bh. It would be nice to side hill dig with a 360 swing but I'll be a one man show so I figure if I rent a mini half the rental time would be spent using the tractor to move the excavated earth. I know it's going to greatly reduce my cycle time having to dig, back the tractor out turn around drive in and scoop. I'm also pretty nervous about cutting in the road and not rolling the tractor. I live on a fairly steep hill.

 

[Brendawg82]

As of tonight I agree a mini x would be the best option. Unfortunately money stands in the way so I'm leaning towards a Frame mount or a 3pt that I'll convert. Also I think a pto hydraulic pump will help, I can always use the tractors hydraulics if the pump is no good. The search continues. Will update soon.

 

[Bulldog]

Money is always a issue, but I gave $500 less for my Bobcat than what I did for my 4672 Kubota BH. Granted the BH was new but the mini x has been so much more useful.

 

[BAP]

Around here you can't touch a used mini-ex for less 12-13K and that would be an unusual find. They are more like 15k+.