backhoe implement (L4060) vs mini-excavator

[virginiavenom]

okay, so I'm able to skid or push a good bit (60%) of the rocks that I encountered thus far with my tractor to one larger pile in each of my pastures, but are still far too large to lift. I'd like to be able to break them up smaller and bust up and dig out the ones that won't budge. I will have a decent amount of usage from a backhoe, especially one with a breaker that I can then use on the side to pay for the equipment and then some as our area is very heavy rock everywhere. so my question is, do I get a 2-4 ton mini-excavator and a breaker attachment (200-500 lbs of force) or get the backhoe for my existing 4060 (note I would like to have a TOP-N-TILT but you can't have that with a backhoe, so that's something to account for) I would want a hydraulic thumb either way. I understand there is a significant price difference but I'm really not sure which way I want to go. could always go used, but I'm not sure how susceptible to problems or what problems to look for on used mini exs.

used around me are the following.
Case CX17B 2600 hours 15hp 17,900 (new for this size from kubota no breaker= 28k)
cat 303.5C CR 2000 hours 41hp 27,900
bobcat 430G 2800 hours 42hp 29,500

the rock breaking and digging up is the biggest part for me, it's sandstone, so it's fairly brittle...my brush hog seems to bust it up on it's own pretty easily if it hits a piece sticking out it usually breaks it off. the real question is, how much force in a hydraulic breaker is really needed for sandstone? 200? 300? 500?

so I looked at the very small kubota. the KX008-3 which is only a 10 hp machine, will only dig up to 5'8" deep and has a 200 ft lb breaker available. I can get that machine for under 20 without the breaker. but what are the chances I could find a used one? the next higher new one jumps 10k so immediately puts you over 30k. those will take 300s or 400 ft lb breakers.

renting doesn't make sense to me. 8 hours of running time total for a day of solid work wouldn't be enough. 40 hours of running time will run 2200 dollars. which seems retarded for me. that's for a 20 hp machine with a 400 lb breaker. that's 1/20th of the cost for one of that size for 1 week....taking account the time it takes to become proficient with it.

so the mini-X is expensive, but would have it's uses. will the backhoe on the L take a breaker? if so what size? will it do what I want it to do? if I had the money I would just go buy a U 35 and call it a day. but I would rather just have the right level of machine for what I need to do.

sorry for the long rambling post. still trying to figure things out myself. machinery is a very expensive game to be in. I realize the Mini-X while much more than a backhoe attachment, would have quite a few uses for me over the standard.

another suggestion that was given to me was to get a skid steer style FEL mounted breaker for use with my 3rd function.....don't know if the loader would hold up to or could even use one with my relatively low hydraulic flow.

 

[KenB2920]

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When looking at this myself, it seems the mini ex will out perform the tractor attachment hands down. However I would not be using it a ton but certainly enough to justify buying over renting. I just wish I could find the proper matched kubota hoe for a good price and not 10k. At 10k I sit back and think, why not spend another 5-6k and get a used machine.

I like the idea of connecting to the front loader with quick attach. I have a third. Function but i believe it would destroy the loader. Tractor loaders are free floating to a degree where skid steers sit back on the machine itself ..... just my opinion

 

[Boo]

I have a friend with an excavator, and he is fairly good with it. He has a thumb on it, so it is a handy machine and for digging, it will certainly beat my tractor and backhoe.

He can't however, use a grapple, forklift tines, manlift bucket, mow, till, or operate PTO equipment. If he does try to move dirt, he can move only a little at a time.

So, unless I wanted to buy two machines, I am better off with my slow backhoe. Of course, the price of a used excavator would have saved me 10k on my tractor but cost me 30k to have the second machine.

 

[virginiavenom]

I would keep my main tractor for sure. I love this thing, and agreed, it can't do what my tractor does, but neither can my tractor really do what an excavator can do. the two together are very productive.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Like Ken was saying look at a Skid Steer, they are really powerful and versatile.

You can get breakers for them for much cheaper than a mini x, and with the right bucket you can move some serious rock.

When looking at a skid steer, or track loader make sure it has high flow.

 

[virginiavenom]

ideally, long term I'd like to have a very strong CTL (either kubota or CAT) I had made up my mind on that long ago. to go with my CUT and a mini-X. with those 3, there is little you could not accomplish

 

[RCW]

For what it's worth, I watched an auction today via internet, and had been to the venue earlier and looked stuff over.

Like you guys said, a couple mini excavators went to $30k +/-, but there were several others (4 or 5?) in the $6-12k range.

I did not look at any of them, but they all seemed in running order.

 

[virginiavenom]

okay, so who knows how big of a breaker I need for sandstone? I've busted them up really good when I hit one with the brush hog, so 200lbs? 300? 400? 500? are the very small mini's borderline useless, or are they actually very good? 10hp? 15hp? 25 hp? 35hp?

 

[Bulldog]

I have a 325 bobcat (7k lbs) and I wouldn't want to go any smaller. I find myself all the time needing a bigger machine. Weight isn't so much the issue, it's the reach. That said, the smaller the machine the weaker it will be when you go to dig.

As far as a backhoe goes. They have their place but a mini x will work circles around one in the same weight class. I had one for my L3000 and never used it again after getting a mini x.

My hammer experience is with a 9000 lb breaker on a 4300 Linkbelt so I can't offer any advise on a smaller machine. Instead of buying a breaker, you may want to check with your local Bobcat dealer. Mine will rent implements like breakers pretty cheap. Unless you plan to use it a lot it would save you the expense of purchasing one.

 

[virginiavenom]

yeah, a 9k breaker would definitely do the trick, but a bit overkill lol. I don't want powder at the end of it. so mini it is, and this project doesn't have to happen right now. I do like the idea of saving on a breaker, but I'm afraid knowing the cost of renting a breaker, that I would be better off buying, especially knowing how much I have to break up. and as I have already seen in my short stint at this location....we grow rocks.....quite literally. mow one location that was clear of any rocks with no issue, a few weeks later, using the same zero turn and same height settings and I skim the top of a rock....it's mildly agrevating, but you can see that dilemma. and when I buy up another 50 acres adjacent to me I'll need it there too. (want to hay that field when the time comes and setup a livestock pond.)

 

[Bulldog]

At the end of the day I think you'll be much happier with a mini.

My $.02, think about what you plan to do present and future. If you go to small you'll never be satisfied. You can do small jobs with a bigger machine but big jobs with a under sized machine suck. Another thing I'll add is the smaller the machine the more unstable. If you have slopes you don't want a short narrow machine. Keep us posted.

 

[Billdog350]

There are several other threads comparing Mini X vs backhoes and various topics are covered, though the breaker is a new twist on the same subject...

I personally ended up with a 6k Mini (Takeuchi TB125) as well as my Kubota L3710. Both are about 6000lbs and can get whatever I need done on my property. The thumb and/or bucket is so much more productive than a backhoe would ever be. With a breaker...I wouldn't want to be shaking my whole tractor if I could avoid it. Even on an X a breaker is not a good thing for the pins but the productivity is worth it.

Good luck with your project, keep in mind buying a clean machine with low hours, getting your work done, and then reselling it clean will net you a very reasonable cost for all of the work you need to get done. If you destroy the machine (or dont' sell it) then your sunk cost is higher, but you end up with something to show for at the end of your project either way.

 

[virginiavenom]

here is a photo of one of the largest pieces I've been able to move. about a foot thick some thicker. it was definitely heavy, but the kubota didn't seem to struggle too much. but there are much much larger pieces. found a slab yesterday about 20 foot wide and about 80 feet long, yet another reason a breaker is really what I would need.