Hey guys what’s up, I have an issue. I ran my old b8200 for 3 plus hours yesterday, shut it down parked in the barn. Today I went to move it and I got a click. Tried jumping it nothing, battery tested good. Now the goofy thing is initially I would get power to the dash here and there. It would come and go, try to turn the key and power would be lost. Messed with wiring, then a big storm came in. Anyways, the dash now will not show any power, no lights or horn nothing. Tomorrow I’ll start tracing power but what are your thoughts on starter solenoid or ignition switch?why would this happen after it worked fine yesterday, note it was hot outside.
B8200 electrical
- Thread starter Bigearl
- Start date
A friend of mine had a similar problem. He had dash lights but nothing when he went to start. After chasing a few problems around here landed on a bad ignition switch. Turns out he was wrong. He had a corroded battery cable. Even if it sounds like a bad switch, it's very easy to do a voltage drop from the battery to the starter. If your battery is a known good, and your having problems in more than one place (which it sounds like you are with the dash lights) I would start with making sure you're battery connections are tight and that you have good current to the starter solenoid.
Learn how to jump a starter. I am not referring to booster cables but momentarily connecting the battery terminal on the starter to the trigger terminal on the starter solenoid.
This is a procedure that must be done with the utmost safety in mind as every safety feature is bypassed.
You can end up with a run-a-way tractor or be run over yourself.
Best to have someone in the seat with the brakes applied.
Use a short piece of wire or the shaft of a screw driver to make the momentary connection. Expect a small spark.
The engine should crank immediately if the starting system is OK.
The benefit of this procedure is to immediately tell you where to look. If the engine does not crank then don't waste time checking safety switches.
Dave
This is a procedure that must be done with the utmost safety in mind as every safety feature is bypassed.
You can end up with a run-a-way tractor or be run over yourself.
Best to have someone in the seat with the brakes applied.
Use a short piece of wire or the shaft of a screw driver to make the momentary connection. Expect a small spark.
The engine should crank immediately if the starting system is OK.
The benefit of this procedure is to immediately tell you where to look. If the engine does not crank then don't waste time checking safety switches.
Dave
I'd begin with the easy and simple. If your battery is good, clean the the terminals at the battery. Clean the terminals at the battery cables. Clean the negative cable where it attaches to the tractor frame. Clean the metal at the frame mount.
Thanks for the reply’s guys. One other thing to note, on several occasions I would turn the key and begin to see the gas gauge needle moving. It would then stop and fall back. This would happen but I would see no sign of power to any gauges, oil light, etc. I did have the battery tested and it tested good. On other occasions I would get power to the gauges, but as soon as I would try and hit glow plugs the power would disappear.
If your battery cables have repair ends on them, get new cables.
The end of the ground cable which attaches to the tractor frame must be removed, cleaned and polished.
All your symptoms are of a high resistance connection.
Dave
If you have a cable like the one pictured and you have enough excess cable to do it, remove the cable, cut off the oxidized end, strip the insulation back and tin the new exposed end and reattach it to the battery clamp. Issue solved. Of course clean the terminal and clamp too and apply some di-electric grease or battery goop. Lots available out there to curb oxidation.
So Dave, yes I do have repair ends on them at the battery posts. They were both installed less than 2 years ago when I replaced the battery. You say replace them, with oem? I’m assuming they are a one piece cable? For now today I’m going to look at ground, and clean it. It’s funny because the night before the no start issue, I parked in the middle of the pole barn, and it rained hard. Sometimes when it rains my barn leaks a bit up at the skylight. Well...guess where it leaked..big puddle right under the 3pt hitch. So could this rain along with super humid weather have aided in the corrosion or bad connection in the ground? Could it be this simple??
How do you Tin the area? With solder? I’ll be a couple pictures of my ends today.
Giving advice to owners who do not have a multi meter nor experience measuring voltage drops at various parts of the tractor's electrical system leads people like me to suggest simple to do fixes which have high success rates.
Temperature changes bring out changing clamping forces between a copper cable and a lead/zinc clamp as each metal has a different coefficient of expansion. This leads to joints with high electrical resistance with increasing current flow.
Differing material properties cause electrolytic current flows between the two materials making up an electrical connection in the same way that two different materials can make a battery.
If you had a multi meter and knew how to use it, some tests would zoom you in on exactly which connection is bad so you do not clean any more than necessary
One piece battery cables can be bought anywhere. They will be your best long term reliability solution.
Alternatively invest $15 in a cheap multi meter and follow the DENSO trouble shooting procedure
Dave
I'm with Dave on this. I'm also an engineer, and bad grounds or connections can drive you batty. Start with the simple stuff.
I've had quite a few cables made by BestBoatWire.com. Good quality marine grade cables, made to order. Not expensive, either, and the customer service is very good.
I get them with clear heat shrink on the connections, so I can see what's going on there over the years. Use military style terminals, and you have an excellent setup.
I also generally go one gauge up from OEM on the cable.
I've had quite a few cables made by BestBoatWire.com. Good quality marine grade cables, made to order. Not expensive, either, and the customer service is very good.
I get them with clear heat shrink on the connections, so I can see what's going on there over the years. Use military style terminals, and you have an excellent setup.
I also generally go one gauge up from OEM on the cable.
Update guys and big thanks to Dave. After dicking around for a while I finally found the problem. I polished ground at frame connection, still no power. i took positive off at solenoid and cleaned everything up, i cleaned the fuse link connection. I inspected all wiring I could access under dash, including glow plug wires. I had originally checked power at the solenoid and I had 12.6 volts, but something seemed weird. After checking all these wires I checked solenoid again and only had like 3 volts. So, I went back to the battery terminal clamps and sure enough it was the positive clamp, corroded, cracked, and the wire was rusty and green in color. I snipped off about 2 inches and cobbled it back together. Started right up. So it was a very simple fix.
2 questions.
My battery has posts, so how do I avoid using these clamp type ends?
2nd question off topic, I had my dash unbolted and loose, and I attempted to get my steering wheel off. The splines are rusted. If need be in the future, how do I get the steering wheel off? Flywheel puller?
2 questions.
My battery has posts, so how do I avoid using these clamp type ends?
2nd question off topic, I had my dash unbolted and loose, and I attempted to get my steering wheel off. The splines are rusted. If need be in the future, how do I get the steering wheel off? Flywheel puller?
Attachments
Batteries with post are just fine if you buy some new cables with the wire molded right into the clamps.
The proper way to remove the steering wheel is with a puller + a horseshoe or U shaped piece to go under the wheel for the puller to pull against. The backyard way is to loose the nut until it is flush with the top of the shaft, then while sitting in the seat exert upward pressure on the underside of the steering wheel with your knees. While the pressure is on the wheel, hit the nut/top of the shaft sharply with a real hammer. If you are lucky the wheel will pop off of the splines.
Make certain the nut and shaft are flush or you will mushroom the top of the shaft and be in a serious mess.
Dave
I don't know the correct size on your machine, Earl, but go the same size or one bigger. You can measure what you have there and compare it to this chart (scroll down a bit). Measure the copper only, not the jacket.
Then just measure your length. Check the size of the grounding lug, and if you go with the military terminals get the 5/16" lug for that end.
That will give you a rock solid setup. Wouldn't hurt to do the ground side while you're at it.
Then just measure your length. Check the size of the grounding lug, and if you go with the military terminals get the 5/16" lug for that end.
That will give you a rock solid setup. Wouldn't hurt to do the ground side while you're at it.