I get that part. But when you move the shifter into a different gear, can you tell that the gears actually engaged properly before you let the clutch out?
B7100 Pilot Bushing Help - Grinding Gears
- Thread starter ojaikubota
- Start date
GreensvilleJay
Well-known member
Equipment
BX23-S,57 A-C D-14,58 A-C D-14, 57 A-C D-14,tiller,cults,Millcreek 25G spreader,
yes, the shifter has 'detents' that you should be able to feel when it's in the correct location.
The 'detents' are grooves in the shift rails that spring loaded ball bearings slide into.
If you look at a diagram of the transmission, you'll see all these parts and how they fit.
The 'detents' are grooves in the shift rails that spring loaded ball bearings slide into.
If you look at a diagram of the transmission, you'll see all these parts and how they fit.
fried1765
Well-known member
Equipment
Kubota L48 TLB, Ford 1920 FEL, Ford 8N, SCAG Liberty Z, Gravely Pro.
I thought that you were of similar age, to have experienced non synchromesh transmissions.....
It is a tractor, not a car, and you can't look at the transmission in a tractor like you would a transmission in a car. An example, you can't start off in third gear with a car, but you can with a tractor. Picking a gear in a tractor is like picking apples. 1st gear is equal to a small apple, 2nd gear is like a medium-sized apple, and 3rd gear is like a large apple. Now, roll those apples down an incline and the small apple will make more revelations than the large apple to go the same distance. 1st gear is slower moving the tractor, second gear is a little faster, 3rd gear is faster than 1st or 2nd, but slower than 4th gear.
,,,,,,even small ones.Owning a B7100DT for a number of years I can conclusively say that you most certainly can shift gears while moving just not under any notable load. I very often will start out in 1st gear pulling the tractor out of my parking area and when I get to my road upshift to 2nd and then sometimes 3rd with no issue while cruising along. On rare occasions I will need to double clutch a bit to get into gear when starting out though this is more common when shifting high/low range than main gear. As for splitting a tractor, never a "fun' job but a B7100 is a pretty small one and not that difficult.
GreensvilleJay
Well-known member
Equipment
BX23-S,57 A-C D-14,58 A-C D-14, 57 A-C D-14,tiller,cults,Millcreek 25G spreader,
While you 'can' shift a straight cut geared tranny it's NOT recommended. Every time you do and hear the mashing of gear against gear is doing damage.Do it long enough,and you'll have worn the leading edges off some gears.May take weeks ,months or years but it does happen. Now IF you get the revs right,clutch just right, with very little load ,yes you can shift without damage BUT that can take years of driving to master. PO of one of my other tractor never did,3rd gear won't stay in gear, well rounding leading edge and I don't want to but a new gear at $1500 CDN. Should replace the 'mate' as well. Since tractor isn't used in that gear, not a big deal for me.
Inside car/truck trannies there are 'sychros',Narrow, spring loaded bronze(?) gears that have special teeth and allow the gears to gently line up and then mesh.
Yeah, I suppose one man's 'fun' is another's 'misery' but when you have the right tools,equipment an d space splitting isn't that bad. Now cleaning out the 2nd septic tank......THAT isn't 'fun' !
Inside car/truck trannies there are 'sychros',Narrow, spring loaded bronze(?) gears that have special teeth and allow the gears to gently line up and then mesh.
Yeah, I suppose one man's 'fun' is another's 'misery' but when you have the right tools,equipment an d space splitting isn't that bad. Now cleaning out the 2nd septic tank......THAT isn't 'fun' !
TheOldHokie
Well-known member
Lifetime Member
Equipment
L3901/LA525, B7200DT/B1630, G2160/RCK60, G2460/RCK60
Based on the 10/16 date on the invoice your clutch is 7 plus years old. I would not jump to conclusions about any specific failure. Lots can hapoen in that length of time including disc wear.
If you are sure its not an external asjustment issue the only way to know whats goung on is a split and inspection. If no loader on the machine thats a pretty simple job. Loader makes it a bit of a PITA.
Dan
GreensvilleJay
Well-known member
Equipment
BX23-S,57 A-C D-14,58 A-C D-14, 57 A-C D-14,tiller,cults,Millcreek 25G spreader,
Wonder if they replaced the 'throwout' bearing ?
Normally I'd expect new pilot and throw bearings to be installed with new clutch. Split once, do all all same time .
Also wonder if there's proper 'free play' ?? aka clutch pedal adjustment ?
Normally I'd expect new pilot and throw bearings to be installed with new clutch. Split once, do all all same time .
Also wonder if there's proper 'free play' ?? aka clutch pedal adjustment ?
fried1765
Well-known member
Equipment
Kubota L48 TLB, Ford 1920 FEL, Ford 8N, SCAG Liberty Z, Gravely Pro.
I have been in a septic tank several times, but never again.
I don't plan to split another tractor either.
I am old now!
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fried1765
Well-known member
Equipment
Kubota L48 TLB, Ford 1920 FEL, Ford 8N, SCAG Liberty Z, Gravely Pro.
I was actually in the sh** when I cleaned out those tanks.I don't believe that you are old! I think that you are full of sh**. LOL
With hyperbaric oxygen treatments, perhaps I am getting younger now....
Have had 27 hyperbaric oxygen sessions to date.
With either 13 or 33 to go,...... depending on observed results.
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I believe that you have misunderstood some of the recent posts. I don't recall anyone saying that they have "sh*t" gears or to do it over the septic tank. Someone suggested using a garage with a concrete floor to keep everything clean. The type of gears that they do have are designed for strength primarily. That is the reason for straight-cut gears, they are more durable than spiral-cut gears that are used in automobile transmissions.
torch
Well-known member
Equipment
B7100HSD, B2789, B2550, B4672, 48" cultivator, homemade FEL and Cab
Shifting straight cut gears while in motion is simple -- in theory. All you have to do is match the engine rpm to the required transmission rpm for the desired gear ratio.
EG: let us say that you are rolling along in 1st gear at 2500 rpm. And let us say that if that particular vehicle was in 2nd gear at that same travel speed the engine would be spinning at 2,000 rpm. To upshift one would simply push in and hold the clutch, shift into neutral while reducing engine speed to 2,000 rpm. Momentarily releasing and pressing the clutch (aka "double clutching") will help slow the input shaft to the new speed. Complete the shift into second and ease out the clutch. Hopefully you can accomplish all this before the travel speed starts to slow down and changes the required engine rpm.
Of course that's a lot easier to accomplish if the engine speed is controlled with a foot pedal and if the vehicle has a tachometer and a speedometer for guidance.
The only sure-fire way to ensure the shaft speeds are matched in all gears is to be stopped.
EG: let us say that you are rolling along in 1st gear at 2500 rpm. And let us say that if that particular vehicle was in 2nd gear at that same travel speed the engine would be spinning at 2,000 rpm. To upshift one would simply push in and hold the clutch, shift into neutral while reducing engine speed to 2,000 rpm. Momentarily releasing and pressing the clutch (aka "double clutching") will help slow the input shaft to the new speed. Complete the shift into second and ease out the clutch. Hopefully you can accomplish all this before the travel speed starts to slow down and changes the required engine rpm.
Of course that's a lot easier to accomplish if the engine speed is controlled with a foot pedal and if the vehicle has a tachometer and a speedometer for guidance.
The only sure-fire way to ensure the shaft speeds are matched in all gears is to be stopped.
Our Ford 3930 is gear drive, constant mesh gears but not synchronized. It has always been hard to shift, the dealer told Dad when he bought it that they're all like that. I tried adjusting the clutch once, but that didn't change anything so I put it back to spec. Double-clutching just seems to spin the shaft back up, idling the engine usually helps.
BTW, occasionally I can shift on the fly if I get the lucky.
BTW, occasionally I can shift on the fly if I get the lucky.
Is power being transmitted from the flywheel to the transmission input shaft while the clutch pedal is fully pushed in? It sure sounds like it.
Yes, there are two possible scenarios for this unwanted power transmission,
1 unwanted /un-intended contact of the clutch disc to flywheel or clutch disc to pressure plate.
2 unwanted /un-intended "drag" of the transmission pilot shaft in the pilot bushing/bearing of the flywheel
From the outside, almost impossible to determine which or both, or to correct that condition(s).
I split (AND re-assembled back to working state!) my B6200 HST myself. I work as an electronics technician, my hobby is woodworking. Far from a mechanic or heavy duty technician. Mine is HST hyrdro, so some slight differences to split, but the overall task is the same.
It was not "hard", but took some time and some concrete floor space in the shop/garage. Yes, I took off my loader. You end up with A LOT of pieces. Take photos with your phone of everything you take off. Get a bunch of big zip-lok bags, and each thing you take off put in a bag with the bolts that held it on. Then you don't get the bolts mixed up or in the wrong place. If I can do it, you probably can.
Once apart, figuring out what was happening is not easy.
The splined area of the transmission input shaft where the clutch hub rides and slides could be worn, and encounter resistance sliding along the splines to disengage. Yes, the dealer should have checked for that when you paid them a bucket o' cash to replace the clutch. Tearing into that transmission to replace a worn input shaft is not going to be cheap. I have never done something like that, I have no idea how easy or hard or how many special tools or equipment is required to properly service and assemble that transmission.
If the pilot bushing/bearing is the problem, a worn input shaft and disassembly of transmission is likely.
Your best hope is that the clutch hub / splines were inadequately lubed when the clutch was replaced, the shaft splines are not worn, and simple application of hi-tack grease fixes it. The input shaft is harder steel than the clutch hub splines, so hopefully any wear is on an easily routinely replaceable part.
With the pilot bearing/bushing, if its a bearing and the inner race is secure on the shaft, the shaft will be fine. If its a bearing and the inner race is spinning on the shaft, the shaft is probably worn more than one would like, but shouldn't be a tractor killer. I've heard of situations where pilot bearing is completely forgotten / left out on assembly, and the unit operates normally for years. If its a bushing, the shaft may be slightly worn.
That the condition existed before the clutch change, and continues to exist, I suspect inadequate or dissipated lube on the input splines.
My mid-80s vintage B6200 with a couple thousand hours would bring $5~6k in this central Alberta used market. I think its worth doing the work.
Yes, there are two possible scenarios for this unwanted power transmission,
1 unwanted /un-intended contact of the clutch disc to flywheel or clutch disc to pressure plate.
2 unwanted /un-intended "drag" of the transmission pilot shaft in the pilot bushing/bearing of the flywheel
From the outside, almost impossible to determine which or both, or to correct that condition(s).
I split (AND re-assembled back to working state!) my B6200 HST myself. I work as an electronics technician, my hobby is woodworking. Far from a mechanic or heavy duty technician. Mine is HST hyrdro, so some slight differences to split, but the overall task is the same.
It was not "hard", but took some time and some concrete floor space in the shop/garage. Yes, I took off my loader. You end up with A LOT of pieces. Take photos with your phone of everything you take off. Get a bunch of big zip-lok bags, and each thing you take off put in a bag with the bolts that held it on. Then you don't get the bolts mixed up or in the wrong place. If I can do it, you probably can.
Once apart, figuring out what was happening is not easy.
The splined area of the transmission input shaft where the clutch hub rides and slides could be worn, and encounter resistance sliding along the splines to disengage. Yes, the dealer should have checked for that when you paid them a bucket o' cash to replace the clutch. Tearing into that transmission to replace a worn input shaft is not going to be cheap. I have never done something like that, I have no idea how easy or hard or how many special tools or equipment is required to properly service and assemble that transmission.
If the pilot bushing/bearing is the problem, a worn input shaft and disassembly of transmission is likely.
Your best hope is that the clutch hub / splines were inadequately lubed when the clutch was replaced, the shaft splines are not worn, and simple application of hi-tack grease fixes it. The input shaft is harder steel than the clutch hub splines, so hopefully any wear is on an easily routinely replaceable part.
With the pilot bearing/bushing, if its a bearing and the inner race is secure on the shaft, the shaft will be fine. If its a bearing and the inner race is spinning on the shaft, the shaft is probably worn more than one would like, but shouldn't be a tractor killer. I've heard of situations where pilot bearing is completely forgotten / left out on assembly, and the unit operates normally for years. If its a bushing, the shaft may be slightly worn.
That the condition existed before the clutch change, and continues to exist, I suspect inadequate or dissipated lube on the input splines.
My mid-80s vintage B6200 with a couple thousand hours would bring $5~6k in this central Alberta used market. I think its worth doing the work.