B7100 Hydraulic block diverter (70060-00360 or 70070-00385)

[torch]

I seriously doubt thats going to be a problem. When extending a DA cylinder all you lose is the volume of the rod. My little B7200 has no problems with my 4 x 24 log splitter cylinder. The 1.5" rod displaces 42 cubic inches = .75 quarts.

Dan

Well he does call it a "bidirectional cylinder". But when he says "manual pump" I'm not so sure it's double acting. And i am curious what size cylinder it takes to lift a 400 lb load on the end of a 26' long lever that weighs another 1,700 lbs.

Is there a hose to each end of the cylinder?

Let us suppose that the pump delivers 0.3 cu. in. per stroke. And let us suppose that the operator can pump it 30 strokes per minute. Over 45 minutes, that would be about 6-1/2 litres of fluid. Definitely more than should be drawn out of the tractor.

That would be consistent with a 20" stroke length in a 5" cylinder. A 2" diameter rod could be expected in that size, so even a double acting cylinder would drop the reservoir 2 litres. Well below the add mark on the dipstick.

Of course, I'm making a lot of suppositions here. Maybe the 45 minute estimate is based on 10 or 15 strokes per minute, or maybe the pump only delivers 0.05 or 0.1 cu. in. per stroke. And the angle will make a big difference -- even a 1-1/2" cylinder could lift that weight IF it starts off pushing straight up. As the tower tilts towards vertical, the downward force would be reduced. Possibly at the same rate the cylinder lifting force is reduced as it tilts towards the base.

That's why it would be nice to have real data.

The other issue that comes to mind is pressure. A quick look at Enerpac's website suggests their manual pumps can deliver anywhere from 5,000 to 10,000 psi. So the existing cylinder may not be big enough to lift the load when powered from a 1,700 psi tractor hydraulic pump.

 

[torch]

Or something like this running of the tractor?

https://vi.vipr.ebaydesc.com/ws/eBa...descgauge=1&cspheader=1&oneClk=2&secureDesc=1
Jouke

200 bar is about 2,900 psi, so that pump would be capable of higher pressure than the tractor.

 

[torch]

How often will you be raising and lowering this thing anyway?

 

[TheOldHokie]

Well he does call it a "bidirectional cylinder". But when he says "manual pump" I'm not so sure it's double acting. And i am curious what size cylinder it takes to lift a 400 lb load on the end of a 26' long lever that weighs another 1,700 lbs.

Is there a hose to each end of the cylinder?

Let us suppose that the pump delivers 0.3 cu. in. per stroke. And let us suppose that the operator can pump it 30 strokes per minute. Over 45 minutes, that would be about 6-1/2 litres of fluid. Definitely more than should be drawn out of the tractor.

That would be consistent with a 20" stroke length in a 5" cylinder. A 2" diameter rod could be expected in that size, so even a double acting cylinder would drop the reservoir 2 litres. Well below the add mark on the dipstick.

Of course, I'm making a lot of suppositions here. Maybe the 45 minute estimate is based on 10 or 15 strokes per minute, or maybe the pump only delivers 0.05 or 0.1 cu. in. per stroke. And the angle will make a big difference -- even a 1-1/2" cylinder could lift that weight IF it starts off pushing straight up. As the tower tilts towards vertical, the downward force would be reduced. Possibly at the same rate the cylinder lifting force is reduced as it tilts towards the base.

That's why it would be nice to have real data.

The other issue that comes to mind is pressure. A quick look at Enerpac's website suggests their manual pumps can deliver anywhere from 5,000 to 10,000 psi. So the existing cylinder may not be big enough to lift the load when powered from a 1,700 psi tractor hydraulic pump.

Jeez - this started as a simple question of adding hydraulic outlets to his tractor to run a cylinder. I think its clear that is easy and cheap.

If it takes 5-10 thousand PSI to extend his cylinder a PTO pump is not going to do the job either.

He said bidirectional cylinder - i assume he knows what that means.

If not a 4" x 24" single acting cylinder is massive, produces 24,000 LBF @ 2000 PSI, and still only holds a gallon of oil - well within the capability of a B7100.

I am not there and can't evaliate the hydraulic tequirements of his turbine but I think this discussion has definitly jumped the tracks.

Dan

 

[torch]

I think this discussion has definitly jumped the tracks.

I agree. Maybe a mod could split this off into it's own thread? I just hate to see the guy go to the time and effort only to discover it won't work.

The angle of the cylinder at the start of the lift will make a huge difference. Remember that with the cylinder as fulcrum, the force required will be approximately twice the total weight -- more actually, since the cylinder will not be in the centre of the tower length. 580 kg x 2 = 2,552 lbs. Vertically (ie 90°), a 1-1/2" cylinder would have no problem with that at 1700psi, at least to start. But if it's starting off at a 10° or 15° angle it will need a 3" or 4" diameter cylinder at tractor pressures.

 

[Jouke]

Thank you all for your inputs and thoughts.
unfortunately I do not yet have possession of this system. it is on a ship on its way from China, ETA half February.
I do not have the specs of the cylinder, but it does have a hydraulic hose on each end.

Your pressure calculations have been very enlightening, but I appreciate your sentiment that the discussion is going beyond Kubota.
I leave it to the mod to move us elsewhere.

If anyone is interested in the details and price of the turbine please pm me.
Jouke

 

[torch]

CURRENTLY SOLD OUT. Making more is a winter project. I will remove this line when I have made more.

 

[1kubotakid]

CURRENTLY SOLD OUT. Making more is a winter project. I will remove this line when I have made more.

These are obsolete and no longer available. I have recently been contacted by a member asking if I will make him one of these after reading how I made mine. I know this comes up from time to time and would like to gauge the interest others might have -- if I`m going to set up to make a couple, I may as well make a few more.

Here are some photos of what I made in the past. I made the two shown out of steel, as that is what I had on hand, but I`m thinking aluminium would function just as well, be resistant to corrosion and cheaper to ship. I`m not sure of pricing yet -- I know metal pricing has shot up over the last year -- but would estimate it to be in the $30 to $50 range. Plus shipping.

Stock cover:

Inside of stock cover:

Inside (left) and outside (right) of diverter cover (note there is a third tapped outlet provided on the bottom face, all outlets tapped 3/ 8" NPT. Plug the unneded outlet or add a pressure gauge):

Hydraulic schematics from B7100 manual:

UPDATES:

Through the course of this thread, we found that these blocks will fit many other models, by adding a choice of ports, like so:

(The above pic shows a total of 6 ports, this was later refined to 4 ports.)

The "universal" block pictured should fit most of the older B and L series tractors:

B5100/6100/7100 (Note, the block was added to the design at some point during the production cycle. Really early models don't have this capability. Look on the right side, just rear of the engine behind the fuel filter. Does it have the block pictured in the first post of this thread? If so, then this cover will work on your machine.)

L185/235/245/275/285/295/305/345/355 (replaces 35300-36720)
L3350 (now confirmed)

(if you know of others, please let me know and I'll add them to the list).

The multitude of ports is only intended to ensure the block is compatible with a wide range of models and provide options for hose routing.

Use one port from the left side and one from the right. If you want, you could connect a pressure gauge to a third. Plug the others. It comes with plugs to block off the unneeded pair.

Warning:
These blocks intercept the flow of hydraulic oil between the pump and the 3ph. They MUST only be used in combination with an end-user supplied connection between the left and right halves, such as a properly plumbed FEL control valve, power steering control, etc. Failure to connect something between the ports will result in a rapid loss of hydraulic fluid. You can pick any two ports and plug the others but installing plugs in ALL the open ports will result in rapid and potentially catastrophic failure of the hydraulic system.

At the very minimum, you must install a hydraulic hose between any port on the left and any port on the right halves before cranking the engine.

I would think this is self-evident, but I don't know the skill level of those that are planning to get one. If you are in doubt, as for help. If you ignore the above you will have my sympathy and a broken tractor.

Pricing:

Dan "theoldhokie" is not currently making them due to health issues.

The price is currently CDN$40 or US$30, plus actual shipping. PM me with your address for an actual shipping quote, but it's usually around $20 - $25 within North America (shipping within Canada is taxable, shipping internationally is not). I will also ship overseas, that seems to run CDN$35 to $50. Customs also requires a phone number on their paperwork. I accept Interac from Canadians or Paypal from others.

NOTE: this is very much an open hardware community driven project. If you want to make your own, the measurements are posted above. If you want to make them for others, you have my blessing. I claim no patent or copyright on the design.

CURRENTLY SOLD OUT. Making more is a winter project. I will remove this line when I have made more.
I would buy three of the blocks, maybe save on shipping,? aluminum is fine and easier to machine.
thanks Eric